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Please don’t see me as doing anything other than giving views on what we have done in recent times. There is a lot being made of the use of certain weapons, we’re also guilty of similar.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2003/apr/04/uk.iraq1
If folk don’t want me to post this type of info feel free to say and I’ll stop.
@mashr Read his full feed:
https://mobile.twitter.com/afneil/status/1498732045559861252
Though we do need to be sceptical until more proof is provided.
Other commentators on twitter (who seem well placed) suggesting all sorts of issues for the Russians with troops not motivated and looking to not fight.
WOOdster
Certainly not going to argue with you on that, as far as i am concerns those incidences should be prosecuted too.
That being said it does not in any way excuse them being used in this instance
If folk don’t want me to post this type of info feel free to say and I’ll stop.
Very comfortable with it. Like the thermobaric stuff the Russians aren't the first. This thread is a good balance though so liking it a lot
FunkmasterP I 100% agree.
All war is unnecessary. Unfortunately human greed and ego means it will always be this way.
This is brilliant.
A Russian colleague was in tears on a teams call earlier. He said they consider Ukraine to be relatives and friends and can't believe this is happening. He said that protesting against it will result in being jailed.
Hoping many of the Russian soldiers on the ground are feeling the same and that will turn the tide against Putin.
China wanting to claim Taiwan, Russia doing what they’re doing. Just madness.
Absolutely, but I think the two are not linked at all.
China's expansionism is driven by economic needs while they Ukraine war is driven purely by one man's desire for the return of the USSR.
And I believe China are constructing 'islands' not as platforms from which to launch an attack but much more as a way to claim territorial rights over vital (to them) access for shipping traffic.
There have been reports of desertion and logistics failures for a while now. Not sure it’s enough to make much of a difference.
uh oh...... new 'intel' coming that other nations are under attack
https://twitter.com/i/status/1498657446851751937
I personally wouldn’t hold out hope of the actual Russian infantry surrendering. Maybe some of the less trained conscripts, but I don’t see it with the professional soldiers. Being in a war zone 100% focuses your thoughts on the job at hand, this includes thinking about your own safety and that of your colleagues. The officers and Senior NCO’s will be keeping a very close eye on the moral of the troops and ensuring they are completely focused.
I hope I’m wrong.
Kind of ironic I'm sure some of you will think but my mum dropped the bombshell that I stayed in Bulgaria with this MAN during the Bulgarian revolution in 1989. I was only 9 but went on a protest march in Sofia. His job at the time was live translating films in a cinema.
He taught me some swear words in Bulgarian! I ate spaghetti with honey/sugar at his parents house. I loved Sofia even as a 9 year old. It was so ****ing cool!
Absolutely, but I think the two are not linked at all.
Both just fuelled by greed or some variant thereof. I honestly think we over think these things and it boils down to breaking rule one on a truly epic scale. Makes me extremely sad for the future of our species.
Leningrad was indeed a similar size…the siege lasted what, 2 years? And it failed. Not saying the same would happen but I imagine they’d want to assault and capture to get it over with.
A Russian businessman has put a $1million bounty out on putin.
I’m sure we could crowdfund a much bigger bounty than that.
I’m hoping that is just the start
I have visions of a John Wick 3-esque underground Hitman league, with a bounty being updated regularly, and people literally fighting each other for the opportunity to take him out!
Or at the very least the CIA will fund a Russian Mafia based takeover of the Kremlin...
🤔
Andrew Neil on Twitter suggesting that the big convoy is starting to surrender, deliberately sabotaging thier own vehicles. Source he claims is Pentagon/US intelligence…
Without wishing to sound like the Scoffer, my Bullshit-o-meter is being pushed quite high with this one... Not that it wouldn't be superb propaganda for Ukraine of course, but this is Andrew Neil citing Pentagon intelligence FFS... Bastions of the truth they are not!
Lay siege to a city Kyiv’s size? That sounds hugely ambitious.
Erm… Leningrad?
Serious question now... Which would last longer, Kyiv under siege from the Russian Military forces, or the Russian economy under siege from the rest of the worlds financial institutions? There's a very real possibility that the outcome of this war could come down to that!
Fully verified by channel 4 with the help of a consultant looking at the discarded casings of them posted on the net in Ukraine.
Just watched Channel 4 news for the first time since this War started. They are very definitely doing a much better analytical job than the BBC, who are focussing rather more on the "hearts and minds" element of warfare. Don't get me wrong, I see where the BBC are going with their Comic Relief/Live Aid style approach which definitely appeals more to anyone wishing to avoid a conflict, but I am keen to hear actual news and analysis (good or bad) on the subject which Chanel 4 seem to be better at providing.
WOOdster
Certainly not going to argue with you on that, as far as i am concerns those incidences should be prosecuted too.
That being said it does not in any way excuse them being used in this instance
wOOdster, the reason we're in the shit right we're in globally right now is the proliferance of misinformation and peoples hidden agendas being glossed over. Shining a light on our own military indiscretions is a very valid exercise I would say, and might even help those of us for whom Global Warfare is a totally inconceivable concept to begin to understand what drives Putin to behave in the way that he does.
But two wrongs definitely don't make a right!
Cluster Munitions only entered the treaty 15 years ago, so the UK usage was pre-ban and the UK committed to destroying their stockpile and cleaning areas where they were used, the use of them now in city environments is not a good thing, as they can leave a lot of unexploded ordnance in residential areas.
Again, China and Taiwan is a completely different thing, history alone can tell you the atrocities that have occurred in the last century due to that, so again, nothing to do with this current conflict.
The next day or two is going to be so critical for Ukraine, and the people of Russia, i really hope that sense prevails at some point, honestly, in this day and age we laugh at the thought of repeating horrific history, like Nazi Germany, but this conflict has really made me understand we're not really any better 80 years on :o(
I was in sofia in 1990, it was dire.
Empty shops with nothing on the shelves but boxes thst used to contain say cornflakes, but were empty.
Beggars everywhere, kids high as kites with glue bags and no shoes constantly pestering you.
At one point a lorry pulled up and had a load of fruit in it. I hadnt seen any for a week so bought a dozen oranges.
In our hotel the cleaners took all The caps off our toothpaste and shower gel so we couldn't take it home.
It was mega. It wasn't really, but the coke and hookers were really Cheap
Seems like it really is kicking off tonight 😕
https://twitter.com/WW3updated/status/1498715218175832065
Same area different (much bloody closer!) view:
The manpower involved on both sides in Leningrad doesn’t make it a particularly useful comparison. The Germans started that siege with 750,000 men. The Russians have just invaded Ukraine as a whole with a total of around 200,000 available.
Further peace talks tomorrow.
I wonder what Angela Merkel would have made of the current situation. I know she and putin had a tense relationship, but she was one leader (along with macron) who tried to maintain a direct, albeit very strained, relationship with Moscow. I think putin had a great deal of respect for her, I reckon she may just have been able to reign him in. Maybe!
@agree, not sure if you meant this, but do you think the British government were not aware of the destruction and the lack of accuracy of those cluster bombs that we dropped?
Pretty sure neither the US or Russia have signed up to the treaty.
I agree with the rest of your post though.
I personally wouldn’t hold out hope of the actual Russian infantry surrendering. Maybe some of the less trained conscripts, but I don’t see it with the professional soldiers. Being in a war zone 100% focuses your thoughts on the job at hand, this includes thinking about your own safety and that of your colleagues. The officers and Senior NCO’s will be keeping a very close eye on the moral of the troops and ensuring they are completely focused.
The make up of the Russian army is complex because it has conscripts, contracted soldiers and a lot of corruption
Their capabilities are constrained by the corruption, radios seem to be an issue as do maps, the airforce doesn't have many precision guided munitions and the pilots are under trained (looks like they are pulling them back from their Syrian operations to support). The conscripts weren't told why they were there nor were the contracted soldiers, so they didn't expect resistance on the ground. The artillery was constrained because of the cameras and this hollows out the heart of their doctrine. The radio situation means the command structure isn't talking to the units and unit radio nets are open to intercept with a large effort going into that
Morale is everything, if the Ukrainians can keep the pressure on the Russian units will start to contract back in their efforts as they will feel the game is up. Some units will fight regardless such as the Chechen units but they are fighting the Azov Regiment units so it's matching the less politically desirable units off against each other. I wouldn't want to be a civilian in that area though as it will be horrific
I think there will be a tipping point when one side or the other collapses in terms of morale and will to fight, Putin will need to either "fall ill" or be removed by other means for it to be a "clean" end though.
Final thought, I don't think a professional politician would have made some of the decisions the Ukrainian President has, the mass mobilization and arming of the population, staying in Kyiv and the mobile phone walkabouts, and stopping fighting age men from leaving the country are all decisions I can't see a professional politician ever doing in a western European context other than probably Switzerland
Wow sounds different to how I remember it. Saying that I remember not being able to find a football for sale but the shops were full of everything else (or so I remember). I took home some Italia 90 glasses and some other football memorabilia.
I also stayed in Plovdiv and Golden Sands. What I remember that I thought was cool was loads of bonfires in the parks and cool looking teens everywhere.
not sure if you meant this, but do you think the British government were not aware of the destruction and the lack of accuracy of those cluster bombs that we dropped?
Everyone knew they weren't precision, they were called "the grid square removal system", they would land where you wanted (accurate) but the area they covered was huge so there would be the risk to things close by, the secondary risk was that the munitions themselves weren't that reliable and would pose a lasting danger to all
In context no unguided indirect fire is accurate all the time, that's why they spend a lot of time training observers. It's also why we tend to use aircraft or drones these days
w00dster
Full Member
@agree, not sure if you meant this, but do you think the British government were not aware of the destruction and the lack of accuracy of those cluster bombs that we dropped?
Pretty sure neither the US or Russia have signed up to the treaty.
I agree with the rest of your post though.
No, i meant that Cluster Munitions were only banned in 2010, your article from 2003 is before that, the issue with cluster munitions wasn't a lack of accuracy, they were an area weapon, so meant to disperse over an area, it was the performance might not be good, so several blinds would be left in an area, which is an issue with remnants of war.
Neither the US or Russia have signed up for it, but the use of cluster munitions in urban environments is seen as contravening the convention.
That Pentagon report has just popped up on BBC. Praying that the disorganisation and low morale they talk about is widespread enough to slow things down even more.
https://twitter.com/grandpajem/status/1498394873707257860?s=21
“Bollock faced foghorn of ignorance” is suddenly my favourite phrase
That is fantastic.
@agree, the point I’m making is that we invaded another country illegally and used cluster bombs. Only 20 years ago. Completely accept that we have signed a treaty since….but we still did it in our lifetime and we still voted Blair back in.
In 2022 we are horrified at the invasion of another country and the use of cluster bombs.
We are more than happy to make and sell Cluster Bombs to the Saudi’s for use in Yemen. The Saudi Government saying not used in urban areas….not sure I believe a word of it.
According to our Government we stopped supplying Cluster munitions in the late 1980’s. This was another lie. The British made and supplied bombs were dropped on Yemen in 2016.
But all war and bombing of Civilians is atrocious. We shouldn’t have been in Syria, while the bombing was indeed more accurate, there is always going to be civilian casualties. Again our government will lie to the people.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51900898
Signed. Two reasons, it's the right and proper thing and I also hope it makes the Home Secretary cranky.
According to our Government we stopped supplying Cluster munitions in the late 1980’s. This was another lie. The British made and supplied bombs were dropped on Yemen in 2016.
Considering these kind of munitions have a shelf life in excess of 20yrs it’s not inconceivable that these were weapons purchased before the shipping was stopped.
Whilst looking for alternative news sources right now, I have just happened across RT World News (which I had assumed would have been shut down internationally by now!) but clearly isn't... I have no words!
An American host, an American guest who happens to be a professor at New York University right now... This is pure diversion tactics, Putin apologist rhetoric, and blaming the EU/UN/US for being racist, whilst constant minor updates of lots of small military gains are going in Ukraine right now and how Putin is combatting all of the sanctions being put on Russia right now so effectively.
Mind blown! 🤯
This is, as far as I can tell, being filmed in the US... These people make Tucker Carlson look moderate! I was aware that there was an element of the US far right that admired Putin and his disdain for the establishment, I didn't realise this was such a big movement in the US so much so that Russian state owned media had been allowed to fully infiltrate its citizens to provide such propaganda...
Staggering!
Andrew Neil on Twitter suggesting that the big convoy is starting to surrender, deliberately sabotaging thier own vehicles.
This would be the most incredible way for it to end.
I was talking to my daughter about it and she said something along the lines of 'I hate people'. I pointed out that it only takes few Putins, Hitlers or Stalins to do enormous amounts of bad. Which is an interesting question - are these people uniquely bad, or are there loads of potential super-baddies from which the eventual leaders emerge?
I thought they have been told they are there as a peacekeeping force to because Ukraine is being run by a Nazi government.
Yeah, of course, a Nazi government run by a Jew...
Petition signed; emailed some people asking them to sign and share with others.
As for the farage insult description ^^^ it's brilliant!
Let's hope that the Pentagon report which Andrew Neil referenced is somewhere near accurate.
New sport invented in Ukraine - throwing petrol bombs out of moving cars!
New sport invented in Ukraine – throwing petrol bombs out of moving cars!
I almost wish they'd thrown it at the truck, probably more chance of it catching fire.
Signed here too. Helps relieve the feeling of impotency for a few seconds.
Signed, although the POS fat old truck driver we had in at work today got both barrels when he came out with the "but we're only a small island and we're full"
He's might have a point*. I vote we start slinging out the oligarchs to make some space.
*not really, but still up for sending the oligarchs on their way.
Yeah, of course, a Nazi government run by a Jew…
We all know it’s ridiculous statement of course, but we are bought up being taught balanced views ( in the whole) and have access to all manner of information, but how educated are these young conscripts ?
I know nothing of living in Russia. What do they teach them in school for example ?
Signed. China has described it as a war, and indicated it may play a role in a ceasefire.
I suspect this is pretty much correct - it won't end until Putin's people turn on him.
https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1498772954938757121
https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1498773142092853250
https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1498773145070755840
Pretty sure neither the US or Russia have signed up to the treaty.
A total of 123 states have joined the Convention, as 110 states parties and 13 signatories. including the UK.
Russia, India,****stan and the US amongst others are not signed up so will continue their use.
As far as im aware we still manufacture them thought. The UK has two types, Russia has 4, 3 in use, and other countries like Germany 4, France 2, one no longer produced, and most of the others have between 2 -4 in their stocks.
US has 47. 15 of which are in current use.
Revs, Putin Isn’t referring to the current PM of Ukraine, he is referring to their history.
He’s completely using it as an excuse, one of many. But if the below hasn’t been posted it here, it’s worth a read. We have a messed up history. Atrocious have been caused by all nations. Human nature at times makes me sick to my stomach.
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/122778
I hope this ends soon. I don’t know any answer. Even removing Putin won’t stop this happening again.
Now Syrians are looking for ways to get to Ukraine in order to hit back at Russia, for it’s support of Assad.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/russia-ukraine-war-syria-rebels-revenge-seek-passage
Signed. I see the Ukraine government are offering war bonds to raise funds - is it too capitalist to invest? Anyone found a way to do it? We do the charity stuff too, for our consciences.
Signed.
Any veterans that might have some kit in their garages/lofts there's a few collections going around to get equipment out to volunteers.
This is one: Kit Request
As well as the humanitarian aid requests.
"Putin's minimum bar for a negotiated solution now would likely be Ukraine conceding Crimea to Russia, agreement to never join NATO and EU and some form of demilitarization (eg. no NATO infrastructure in Ukraine)"
"His problem is that it's highly unlikely that Zelensky and the rest of the Ukrainian leadership would accept these conditions"
Doesn't there come a point where a population will just accept whatever they must, to stop the bombs/rockets/shells flying into their neighborhood? I don't think many of us would stick with our "principles and values" very long, certainly not all the way until the place ends up like Grozny.
Again been looking at the history. Grozny is a much smaller city, not clear how well defended, but seemed to be a much higher ratio of attackers to defenders. Aleppo was smaller but more comparable, took best part of 4 years. I’m not doubting the Russians can do it if they really want to, but I just don’t see how it can be over in a timescale that is sustainable. The longer it goes on, and the more deaths there are the more support Putin loses.
I really think their only chance for ‘victory’ in any meaningful sense was to finish it in a week. I mean their much vaunted 40 mile convoy hasn’t moved anywhere for over 24 hours. Feels like they’ve lost momentum.
Could be wishful thinking of course, hope I’m not eating my words over next 3 days.
bikesand - no.
Doesn’t there come a point where a population will just accept whatever they must, to stop the bombs/rockets/shells flying into their neighborhood?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad
Now Syrians are looking for ways to get to Ukraine in order to hit back at Russia, for it’s support of Assad.
That will complicate matters further. If the Syrians are there in force then the Chechen "hunters"
might simply stop their involvement on religious ground (even if their leader wants to the followers will not). Chechen has long history with links to middle east. It is best they don't get involve or they will drag fighters from all over the world prolonging the conflict.
“Putin’s minimum bar for a negotiated solution now would likely be Ukraine conceding Crimea to Russia, agreement to never join NATO and EU and some form of demilitarization (eg. no NATO infrastructure in Ukraine)”
“His problem is that it’s highly unlikely that Zelensky and the rest of the Ukrainian leadership would accept these conditions”
If that is true then Russia wants "half" of Ukraine after the river Kyiv (East Ukraine) together with the non-NATO buffer zone, which I think that might be the "best" outcome to stop the war for now. Then pray that we don't have to see WW3 at all.
Unfortunately for Ukraine that might be the best outcome for now but they have to negotiate hard to maintain their own military infrastructure.
If the negotiation fails then I am afraid the seed for WW3 is sowed. All it needs is a single spark from that area in future and this time the demand will be entire former Soviet Union.
People never forget or forgive when their country is forcibly partitioned.
I wonder how good the CIA/MI6/etc intelligence is about the very top of Russia?
IMO the best outcome is for a coup in Russia and the new leader to get everyone out.
If the West have intelligence that nothing is going to happen in that regard then Ukraine might have to conceed some ground and unfortunately we let Putin take that win and maybe emboldened him for future adventures.
If they have intelligence that his position is becoming less and less tenable then unfortunately more ukrainian lives might have to be sacrificed to drag it out long enough for that to happen. Very unpleasant but worth it (he says as not one of the ones actually being sacrificed)
.
How secure are the US/UK/EU communications with Zalensky? How much could he be involved in this decision? Being in Kiev is fantastic for morale but hopeless for talking about big stuff like that with his allies without his communications being intercepted. How good are the Russian spies? How secure are the Ukrainians communications? It doesn't matter if the Russains listen in to his video call to the EU, that's on the telly. It does matter if they listen to his private phone call to Biden or Guterez. Could ambassadors abroad make that kind of decision for him for example?
People never forget or forgive when their country is forcibly partitioned.
That's true for both the conqueror and the conquered as history has taught us. There is always a price to pay for this sort of things in the end.
I wouldn't say never. The people where I'm from have pretty much forgiven Wessex for taking over, and the Vikings too. The Normans on the other hand, that's a bit fresh in our collective memory!
I wonder how good the CIA/MI6/etc intelligence is about the very top of Russia?
I am sure both sides have intel on each other coz that's their job (intelligence workers).
IMO the best outcome is for a coup in Russia and the new leader to get everyone out.
That will not happen. Their system/culture etc is not build that way. Tsar was overthrown by the Bolsheviks revolution but was replaced by another form of "Tsar" and all the subsequent leaders were in various forms of "Tsar" in disguise and the latest incarnation is in Putin. Therefore, the system never changed at all. All of them have one thing in common "We are glorious powerful conquerors and we want more".
True, but a new leader could afford to be more pragmatic and withdraw without (personally) losing face in the that Putin would. Whether they would accept Russia as a whole losing face like that i don't know.
If a popular uprising lead to Putin's overthrow there is a window of opportunity there to deescalate this before the new hard man rises to the top
And since you bring up the Bolsheviks, we have never seen a civil war in a nuclear state... Not saying its likely, but revolutions do sometimes go that way. Who knows how that would play out
So what role can the UN play now?
It’s looking likely that a General Assembly resolution (no vetoes apply) for Russia to immediately stop using force will be passed tomorrow afternoon (New York time). It has no legally binding status, but can it influence anything?
That will not happen. Their system/culture etc is not build that way. Tsar was overthrown by the Bolsheviks revolution but was replaced by another form of “Tsar” and all the subsequent leaders were in various forms of “Tsar” in disguise and the latest incarnation is in Putin. Therefore, the system never changed at all. All of them have one thing in common “We are glorious powerful conquerors and we want more”.
Whilst, in Russia at least, there is a real history of reverting to type... The rest of the world could ill afford a "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" situation. I am pretty unaware of the political movers and shakers within Russia right now aside from Putin, Medvedev (Putins former puppet and whipping boy) and Navalny... With Putin gone, whatever was required, I can see significant pressure being put on any interim leader to hold a proper fair and democratic election in Russia ASAP. A Russia devoid of Putin induced anxiety in the voting booth, could well provide a significantly different result to that that has become expected over the last 2 decades... Russia is seemingly an even more "them and us" society than the UK is right now when it talks about the Generation divide. The Generation in the UK that voted to Leave the EU is the generation in Russia that have kept Putin in power, but the generation that voted to remain in the EU in the UK is the generation that would put a moderate like Navalny in the Kremlin...
How long would it last...? That's another story... Gorbachev was a ray of light for the west in Russia, but he didn't last long, Yeltsin had his ups and downs but was clearly easily corruptible, and the rest we know all too well...
But let's focus on the positives eh! 🤔
Does Putin care what the UN think? He thinks everyone is ganging up on him anyway, that would prove his point (in his head)
It already appears he has next to no friends, Lukashenko, Assad, Kadyrov and, erm...
Even Tokayev, who almost certainly owes his own position to Putin, hasn't come to his aid.
A member state can be removed from UN membership. But what good that would do exactly I could not say.
timbog160
Full Member
Signed. China has described it as a war, and indicated it may play a role in a ceasefire.
Very important too note that they are NOT saying that to their own populous. They are removing pro Ukrainian support from social media whilst allowing anything blaming the US/ the West for this.
Keeping their powder dry for Taiwan basically...
Another serious question, that I'm not sure has been raised as yet on here at least...
Looking at the width of the Dnieper River at parts, and understanding how relatively flat Ukraine is, and how averse it is to Nuclear Power (for obvious reasons), it looks like the Dnieper River has several HEP dams along its length that will not only provide power for vast swathes of the country, but also stops copious amounts of water from covering land downstream from their placement. One of which lies barely a few km upstream of Kyiv itself...
I'm not suggesting that Kyiv would be disappear underwater long term if the HEP just upstream from it was destroyed, Kyiv has clearly been there a hell of a lot longer than the dam has. However, given the size of the lake upstream from it, destruction of the dam could cause temporary flooding in and around Kyiv potentially as well as wiping out a significant electricity supply for the city.
Anyone with more intimate knowledge of Kyiv's facilities care to allay my fears...?
Ref the convoy – apparently it is not 40 miles long, but is a series of packets of vehicles – a significant number none the less. A large number are thought to be soft skinned logistics vehicles, suggesting a)they are anticipating a long stay b)not worried about air attacks…
So the question is when will the big assault come? I would imagine the Ukrainians are using their time to fortify the city. Further East one of the cities reports tramlines being chopped up and welded to make anti tank obstacles. Is it really 2022, or have we somehow gone back to 1942?
From what I've seen on Twitter, Ukraine have destroyed all the bridges on the route down to Kiev now, which is likely to cause significant delays for the Russian troops. That and reports are that said convoy is mostly Ural trucks full of supplies rather than soldiers. Remains to be seen though.
Have just seen a video on BBC News that they are suggesting is a handful of Russian soldiers that have given themselves up somewhere in the South of Ukraine... Doesn't look significant numbers wise, and they do look more like conscripts than professionals so I don't know how significant it is, but clearly any surrenders or defections are not being fed back through the Russian media at all, and we know just how Putin would treat those troops should they ever return home!
If a popular uprising lead to Putin’s overthrow there is a window of opportunity there to deescalate this before the new hard man rises to the top
No going to happen. I can only assume Putin's reference to history as seeing some of his predecessors as "weak" (they gave in to another system or way of life etc). The next leader might even be harder if s/he sees Putin (Russia is Putin in their context) as being "humiliated". Most leaders (mostly referring to aggressors) tend to romanticise their glorious past (their only reference point) to justify their current state without realising life could be better being dull and boring (human nature reject that) without the ups and downs. It is only wishful thinking if we think leaders like them can change dramatically. Probably they will only regret them when life is slowly disappearing from them (I bet those great conquerors will Not regret anything).
Does Putin care what the UN think? He thinks everyone is ganging up on him anyway, that would prove his point (in his head)
UN/NATO/EU etc all insignificant to Putin. The more the objections the more he takes it personally, the more he can justify his actions. At his position with such power his focus is to achieve his objective while the rest are irrelevant. This is the quality of a leader good or bad. i.e. determination.
Very important too note that they are NOT saying that to their own populous. They are removing pro Ukrainian support from social media whilst allowing anything blaming the US/ the West for this.
Keeping their powder dry for Taiwan basically…
They don't want to set "bad" example or give the people ideas.
I’m not suggesting that Kyiv would be disappear underwater long term if the HEP just upstream from it was destroyed, Kyiv has clearly been there a hell of a lot longer than the dam has.
No idea about how big the dam is but if it is destroyed than both sides lose (assuming it will flood the region) but this may only be a temporary solution.
It did happen during the first world war. OK, it didn't go brilliantly, they had a civil war and then we had Lenin, Stalin, etc as you say, but that revolution did get them out of the war. At this stage I'm sure a lot of us would settle for that.
"People never forget or forgive when their country is forcibly partitioned"
Earlier I posted a video of the Kenyan envoy addressing the UN.
He pointed out that nearly every country in Africa had its borders drawn in the boardrooms London, Paris or Lisbon. Those borders showed no regard for the borders of previous nations, or tribal, religious or linguistic affiliation.
Like you, he recognised the desire for people to be with their own kind but he reminded us that were African nations to pursue those desires by means of aggression, then the whole continent would be at war for eternity.
You don't have to hold a grudge and pass it on through the generations, some people have managed to, if not forgive and forget, at least try and look towards building some kind of future that is not dominated by the past, or differences.
A bit like many Ukranians, who want to move on from a quite frankly awful past, rife with ethnic strife and forever being a pawn between competing superpowers.
Not being personal, but was it really worth posting that comment?
The whole thing is just horrendous - but I do have a question - maybe it's been covered already?
A huge Russian military convoy is rumbling down the main road from Russia towards Kyiv.
Am I missing something - but was this not completely predictable? As in: The Ukrainians have been expecting Russian troops/tanks etc to come down that road en-mass since 2014...... Surely there must be a plan (besides doris in her clio/beanie) to hamper their progress? As mentioned above, roadside bombs etc. What about artillery/mortars etc? I know it would be short lived due to Russian air superiority, but the convoy seems to have been relatively unimpeded so far?
Maybe it's a "wait until you see the whites of their eyes" thing...... but it just seems odd.
"Maybe it’s a “wait until you see the whites of their eyes” thing…… but it just seems odd"
Maybe you've just answered your own question. Given the overwhelming strength of the invader, engaging the column now would be foolhardy and at odds with the Ukranian strategy thus far. We have seen them engage when troops enter urban areas and they pick off supply columns when they've been isolated.
Surely attacking a column of that magnitude would involve a full scale military operation and the Ukranian forces would get wiped out. i can't see any military, strategic or political advantage in doing so.
(EDIT)
Not that similar thoughts haven't crossed my mind as well but I put it down to seeing so much drone footage overlaid with cross hairs that it makes it all look so easy. It becomes weird seeing overhead footage of a column of vehicles that doesn't end with a big bang. If only there was a launch button on the TV remote...
Given the overwhelming strength of the invader, engaging the column now would be foolhardy and at odds with the Ukranian strategy thus far.
Surely attacking a column of that magnitude would involve a full scale military operation and the Ukranian forces would get wiped out
I'm just a punter on the internet - but frequent harassment of the convoy by small guerilla units is a pretty tried and tested tactic, no? And exactly what a much smaller/more ill equipped force should be doing against a larger one?
Sorry, am not arguing, just confused about what the Ukrainian plan is here. Letting them get all the way to Kyiv and then engaging them in an urban environment seems like a strange decision
Not that similar thoughts haven’t crossed my mind as well but I put it down to seeing so much drone footage overlaid with cross hairs that it makes it all look so easy. It becomes weird seeing overhead footage of a column of vehicles that doesn’t end with a big bang. If only there was a launch button on the TV remote…
Same! To the point that I'm wondering that maybe this "slow moving, softly armored" convoy isn't too good to be true?
I’ve wondered the same myself. But maybe it is being hampered.
Also, earlier comments suggested bridges have been destroyed so maybe that’s enough for now…
That's fantastic, the Ukrainian people never cease to amaze me at how they're standing up to all of this.
Love the way he fires the gun in the air and it makes no difference whatsoever
Omg that is the singlemost amazing thing I've ever seen
Ben Wallace on the morning news just made the point - invasion is the 'easier' bit. Holding on as occupiers is way harder and more lethal for the occupying forces.
On a side note - Ben Wallace appears a knowledgeable, measured and clear minister. A step up from many of the rabble we can our ministers at the moment.
Just noticed that the Russian stock exchange isn't going to open today either. Also, traders have been told to reject sell orders from foreign investors.
I'm just wondering, what happens to an economy the longer its stock market stays closed?
At what point does it become less painful to just open it and take the hit compared to keeping it closed?