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Thanks to Priti that will soon be illegal.
If a million people took to the streets right now in the UK, the police would not be able to arrest them all. If they tried, I think more than a million would respond.
If a million people took to the streets right now in the UK, the police would not be able to arrest them all. If they tried, I think more than a million would respond.
Exactly this, police can only manage by public consent. If people decide that the police do not represent their interests then the police and governments will lose
Considering they're still using cold war tactics and a lot of cold war era kit with a few shiny new bits doesn't mean people were off.
Blokes in sandals armed with AK series weapons & RPG's made life very difficult for highly equipped and trained western militaries for years. The world is full of geardos who use Janes when they should be on Pornhub, here is no different it seems.
But hey, nice snide swipe.
In a thread where people have proposed the re-introduction of Cold War era weaponry and tactics to deal with the threat posed by the Russian forces that are mostly using very up to date weapons and defences, you will forgive me for calling you out.
If you have cast yourself as a “liberator” then that brings with it lots of restrictions as to how you would prosecute the fighting
And also the troops - if you haven't told them that the locals are all terrorist sympathisers or sub-human scum it's a lot more difficult to simply drive over them.
I’m not trying to argue with you here, just exploring the reasons. Whilst Putin might simply be a megalomaniac, there would seem to be quite a few things he is using as justification here. I think it’s worth discussing since it’s relevant.
I think that's the kind of discussion you can have before the tanks roll over the border and after they've left. I don't really have any interest in discussing justifications while an invasion is ongoing.
If others want to then crack on. I'm quite binary on this for now. Once Russian troops are back in Belarus I'll go back to being my indecisive, shades-of-grey, everyone-makes-a-good-point self.
Sadly Russia has a lot more police that don’t give a damn how they treat people.
Putin thought the Ukrainian people would welcome the Russians with open arms.
I very much doubt that.
What would NATO do if Putin authorised deployment of weapons tipped with Sarin / VX etc.
Why has he not been slotted yet by somebody in his inner circle? He is destroying an innocent Ukraine and the future of his own country and people due to sanctions. Not to mention the potential for nuclear exchanges with the west.
I feel like I have an anvil in my stomach.
Why has he not been slotted yet by somebody in his inner circle?
Can't really answer that. But worth noting that Hitler survived for nearly 15 years and Stalin more than 20...
With all the talk of countries offering military aid etc how exactly is this getting into the country?, and will this military aid arrive in time to be deployed to bolster the Ukrainian army?, are the armaments currently sitting in a warehouse waiting to be collected?, will the ground troops need training in how to use it?
Im pretty cynical as I can't help but feel this offer of aid is akin to the offers of financial and logistical support often pledged after national disasters that never materialises, smoke n' mirrors etc.
I don’t really have any interest in discussing justifications while an invasion is ongoing.
Not actual justifications - weaponised history, used as justifications.
If others want to then crack on. I’m quite binary on this for now.
As am I - like I said I'm not justifying it, I'm interested in the information war, in which we are all involved and of which this thread is a part.
Putin thought the Ukrainian people would welcome the Russians with open arms.
I wonder how many people are simply afraid to tell Putin things he doesn't want to hear? This could contribute to this kind of cock-up wouldn't it?
Why has he not been slotted yet by somebody in his inner circle?
Because he doesn't have an 'inner circle'.
Look at the looks on the faces of those people around him at those unhinged press conferences, and these are meant to be his 'closest' advisors. They all look both worried and terrified in equal measure. They all know they'll be dead if they question him, so just nod and say yes. If he gets a hint of disloyalty, then it's game over for you. This is how dictatorships work.
He's an absolutely psychotic madman who'd have you killed as soon as look at you. Nobody can get near enough to 'slot' him. You'd never make it down the length of the massive table alive. And if you tried to plot something, you'd likely be dead a long time before you got to carry it out
I wonder how many people are simply afraid to tell Putin things he doesn’t want to hear? This could contribute to this kind of cock-up wouldn’t it?
He's been in power for 22 years and runs a government where you get ahead through cronyism and patronage. I'd bet five whole Scottish pounds that there is no one anywhere near Putin willing to say "No Vlad. That's a shit idea"
Mboy, not sure who you’re referring to with you’re comments, this is a mountain bike forum with people who are clearly not experts in the Russian Military. However this forum does contain people with very varied backgrounds whose experience may be worth listening to.
I’ve given my opinions and personal thoughts on the Russian strategy. I have served in the military, working on anti air defence systems (Rapier). I have served in multiple war zones. Back in my day Russia and Korea where our biggest threat, we spent a fair amount of time theorising about this threat. I was discussing the war on Saturday evening with people whom I consider experts, our view in terms of the Russian strategy was aligned.
Now I will reiterate, I’m no expert, I’ve not followed advancements in technology, but I feel reasonably ok to discuss my thoughts here on this mountain bike forum.
Other peoples opinions are more than equal, and I will willingly listen rather than mock. Maybe you might want to think about how your posts read.
I don’t agree with some of the politics mentioned here, I certainly didn’t agree with the posts made about how the Russian army were struggling and how things appeared to look promising for Ukraine. Just because I might not agree doesn’t give me the right to talk down to people.
bet there's no side arms allowed in the Kremlin (if your going to get close to Poohtin) so It need to be from his personnel protection team.
I feel like I have an anvil in my stomach.
Same.
I've tried to stay away from this thread and the news with the principal of 'dont worry about things you can't change' whilst feeling horrible about what's going on, but I've been coming back to try and find some peace of mind that this utter madness will all stop soon.
I'm running through ways this plays out and we could just be in for a prolonged war, and very aggressive insurgency which could last year's, the threat of muclear strikes could go on and although I wasn't born until 1980 I can start to imagine a little what the cold war felt like
Re any further attacks in other countries e.g Poland, to my mind he'll have enough on his plate in the Ukraine given the size of it so would probably not be possible physically, unless he starts missile strikes to the air bases support foreign weapons and aid.
Glad to see the US not ratcheting up any retaliation strikes chat given the talk of Nuclear action by Putin, I bloody wish the BBC would stop putting 'what happens if a nuclear strike takes place' kind of stuff on their front page but it's probably to prevent the spread of missinformation on our side
Some weird reactions though, one guy came into the office yesterday like his team had won on the weekend and everything was honky-dorey, I've also had enough with a group in the office discussing military weapons between the sides like top-trumps
Long term, although a heroic effort I don't think Ukraine can out fight them and it ends in Russia taking some if not all of the country and fighting the locals for years
You can't bow down to bullies but he'll not be around forever, after a point they'll get their country back. Barbaric.
Right time to not really do any work out of anxiety again
Jesus wept! Boris Johnson's latest press conference? It's just embarrassing.
He did what he always does... he made a party political broadcast.
In the same way that everything is a photo op with Instagram Liz, everything is a campaign rally for the Boris Party with that ****!
We are governed by absolutely dysfunctional sociopaths. Christ only knows what the rest of the world is making of these two muppets latest outings on the world stage, starting their leadership campaigns early
With all the talk of countries offering military aid etc how exactly is this getting into the country?, and will this military aid arrive in time to be deployed to bolster the Ukrainian army?, are the armaments currently sitting in a warehouse waiting to be collected?, will the ground troops need training in how to use it?
Im pretty cynical as I can’t help but feel this offer of aid is akin to the offers of financial and logistical support often pledged after national disasters that never materialises, smoke n’ mirrors etc.
I've gotta' say - Trumps' been awful quiet these last few days...
You can’t bow down to bullies but he’ll not be around forever, after a point they’ll get their country back. Barbaric.
Yes, he will not live forever but the next 20 to 30 years will be crucial. The current situation is only a taste of what will come in future. I am not trying to make more people worry but there are certain superpowers that are just beyond West/democratic "control". These are the ones that West/EU need to prepare for. i.e. if there is a fight at least it will not be one sided.
I’ve gotta’ say – Trumps’ been awful quiet these last few days…
Forget Trump as he is not in charge at the moment. We can all guess what he would or would not do if he was the President in the current situation. There all the various scenarios between Trump and Putin which may or may escalate the problems. Both can be "hot headed" and strategic with Putin having much more "courage" (notice he doesn't care what the world says?). Both can be unpredictable even when we think we know Putin. Putin does not get to where he is without being "smart" even if it means silencing or terrorising his political opponents using all tactics as long as he achieved his objective. i.e. something to show for.
Re the military aid - airports in surrounding countries are still open afaik as well as roads and so on, and most of Ukraine in terms of area is still under Ukranian control. However if there are still Russian planes in the sky I am not sure how safe the deliveries will be. I wouldn't want to be a lorry driver.
Trumps’ been awful quiet these last few days…
https://twitter.com/JaKusluch/status/1498682487630925829
Poor Ol' Alexander, bet he's itching to run to the front and shout "follow me!"
Mboy, not sure who you’re referring to with you’re comments, this is a mountain bike forum with people who are clearly not experts in the Russian Military. However this forum does contain people with very varied backgrounds whose experience may be worth listening to.
My apology to Flaperon aside, my comments weren’t directed at anyone in particular. It is very obvious there are people on here with relevant knowledge to the subject in hand (be it military experience, history knowledge, cultural sensitivity and awareness). But it is more obvious when the equivalent to those who’ve never followed football in their life start piping up with their “expert” opinions come World Cup time every 4 years, before going quiet again immediately afterwards (not that I am in to football, but you will get my drift by explaining it this way I am sure). For instance, even though chewkw’s views don’t sit at all comfortably with me (I guess mostly because he is seeing things from a different cultural perspective), I do believe he is providing some insightful information. From yours and a handful of others’ posts, your military backgrounds are obvious without the need to point them out…
Sharing an opinion is one thing… Doggedly sticking to an irrelevant viewpoint is something else.
Observation: The Chinese haven't fought a proper actual war since oooh, about 1979 when they had a go at the Vietnamese. I wonder if they're looking at how the RF are getting on in Ukraine and quietly closing the "How to Invade an Island Annual 2022" that they got for Christmas
Some interesting background info
To be honest I think we are all a bit tense at the moment. I generally find this thread helpful as a bit of a release.
We can all guess what he would or would not do if he was the President in the current situation
Don't need to guess, here's what he said : "I went in yesterday, and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful," Trump said when asked about the news. "I said, 'How smart is that?' And he's going to go in and be a peacekeeper."
So that's cool.
Observation: The Chinese haven’t fought a proper actual war since oooh, about 1979 when they had a go at the Vietnamese. I wonder if they’re looking at how the RF are getting on in Ukraine and quietly closing the “How to Invade an Island Annual 2022” that they got for Christmas
Yes, they have not but keep track of them building more aircraft carriers. That's the sign.
Anyone seen Zelensky getting a standing ovation when addressing European Parliament just now (via remote link of course)…
Quite dusty in here right now…
That was a serious standing ovation! I’d link the vid but can’t from BBC, and the YouTube versions are all hastily edited and not very good.
A real case of life imitating art if ever there was one!
I find it particularly heartening that individuals such as vasly lomachenko and oleksandr usyk are returning to take up arms. Multimillionaires who could easily hide away in luxury in a safe haven miles away from danger, but are willing to risk it all alongside their fellow Ukrainians
This is why putin won’t win this, not in the long term.
That’s the sign.
Of what?
And then there’s good ‘ol boys, God fearin’ Christians, putting themselves at risk to fight the Nazis.
Can someone please find the grave where irony’s been buried, so I can lay some flowers on its tomb.
https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/footage-shows-american-man-embedded-with-russian-troops-20220301
Of what?
The ability to use aircraft offensively from a mobile base, instead of land-based, which shortens the distance to the target, allowing heavier weapons loads without compromising offensive range due to fuel, and not needing IFR systems.
Just read this, a piece from the point of view of a Russian, about the situation people are living with in Russia. 5200 people arrested, beaten up and jailed by a special police force, for nothing more than walking near a protest, or carrying a piece of paper with a message of protest on it.
And Putin talks about de-Nazifying Ukraine!
China's aircraft carrier production is impressive/foreboding enough... but nothing compared to building whole new islands to launch attacks from.
https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1498659966001025027?s=21
Ambassadors getting up and silently leaving as Lavrov begins his speech at the UN
Ah, Russell Bentley; The Donbas Cowboy, wondered when he'd rear his head again. I did see a post on Reddit but kept scrolling. That crank has been doing this for a while, an old int officer got heckled when he put his videos on at the end of a briefing. Strange chap.
And then there’s good ‘ol boys, God fearin’ Christians, putting themselves at risk to fight the Nazis.
Can someone please find the grave where irony’s been buried, so I can lay some flowers on its tomb.
https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/footage-shows-american-man-embedded-with-russian-troops-20220301
The ability to use aircraft offensively from a mobile base
I'd predict, given the weaponry available to the Taiwanese that a Chinese carrier would last ooooh maybe as long as minutes in an actual shooting war, and you'd still need to get a million Chinese troops ashore in what would need to be the world's largest ever seaborne amphibious invasion fleet against the sort of military and preparations that make the Ukrainians look like Sat afternoon amateurs, across a 100 mile stretch of water that's known the region over as one of the most difficult and treacherous bits of navigable sea and land them all on about 10 possible landing sites some of which are cliff faces that the Taiwanese would've known was coming for months beforehand...Look at the trouble the RF have had resupplying their troops across an 80km land border, and add in a hostile sea to that.
I’m not sure who the good guys are in this conflict.
Really? You think the presence of this teeny load of arseholes makes the Ukrainians the "baddies?" You need your bumps feeling you ridiculous troll....sorry Edited to say: son of a silly person (in an outrageous French accent )
Did you know there was a SS unit made up of English fascists in the 2nd World War? You can read about their pointless existence here Does that make you unsure who the good guys were in that war as well?
Really? You think the presence of this teeny load of arseholes makes the Ukrainians the “baddies?” You need your bumps feeling you ridiculous troll.
Sure there was a "please play nicely" thread recently....
Yep MCTD you're right, I'll edit my post to be more polite
all talk of a10/drones etc with regards to the large convoys of russian vehicles, think I'd go for the simpler Jihadi route of mines, road side bombs and IED's. Would cause havoc with all those soft skinned vehicles. Obviously a bit late the deploy now though.
Note the information on here (is that a US badge top right?) - most notably that Moldova has an invasion force shown.
I assume the link scoffcake has just supplied is a link to a ukranian ultra nationalist paramilitary group. They exist and are indeed involved in the long running conflict in the eastern provinces, fighting Russian backed militias. 10,000 have died since 2014
Think of it like Nortern Ireland, communities at loggerheads and the worst scumbags nutters and extremists from each community get given the guns. Doesn't mean everyone on each side is like that. That is why there is as much sympathy for the Russian conscripts as their is.
Many ethnic Russians in the East and Crimea welcomed the Russians in 2014 but are experiencing buyers remorse. They thought joining Russia would improve their economic situation but it hasn't. Instead they've had 8 years of living in a police state, a stagnant economy, external media being switched off and in Crimea they've watched as their entire island has been turned into an arms dump. Russia promised infrastructure investment, (of course they did, they need all the new roads to move all the tanks around).
Putin knew he wouldn't be welcomed in western Ukraine but what he didn't bank on is the different mood in the Russian population now as compared to 8 years back. They voted for 'Brexit' and many now regret it.
I assume the link scoffcake has just supplied is a link to a ukranian ultra nationalist paramilitary group.
Whatever it was, I assume enough people took umbrage as it appears to have disappeared... 🤷🏻♂️
Just listened to the bunker podcast. 30 mins with John Sweeney in Kiev right now. It's quite encouraging and v v entertaining. He seems unbelievably chill as well
To be honest I think we are all a bit tense at the moment. I generally find this thread helpful as a bit of a release.
Definitely the case for me. I don't generally have the radio on when working but the last few days I've been turning it on for the news bulletins as the thought of not knowing anything about what is happening right now is just pushing my anxiety through the roof. Every time I hope to hear the announcement that Putin has capitulated or been assassinated while also praying it's not the emergency announcement!
It's not a relaxing state of affairs.
Behind a paywall but relates to the convoy north of Kiev/claims
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/28/russias-17-mile-convoy-thwarted-road-kyiv/
Not sure there’s a none paywall version out there?
Definitely the case for me. I don’t generally have the radio on when working but the last few days I’ve been turning it on for the news bulletins as the thought of not knowing anything about what is happening right now is just pushing my anxiety through the roof. Every time I hope to hear the announcement that Putin has capitulated or been assassinated while also praying it’s not the emergency announcement!
It’s not a relaxing state of affairs.
Same for me but opposite, I've been reading too much - even a simulated central London nuclear bomb blast - and it driving me nuts. Ignorance appears to be bliss for me. On that point, after saving for six months Jnr just has Occulues Quest delivered, its very good and I found sitting in a virtual quiet beach resort for 5 mins very relaxing.
Matt out and about - that badge is the us 1st Air Cav (cavalry). Maybe they’re intending to go in with Wagner playing Robert Duvall style…
On that point, after saving for six months Jnr just has Occulues Quest delivered, its very good and I found sitting in a virtual quiet beach resort for 5 mins very relaxing
Nice idea. Modern life is great at bombarding us with stuff the demands attention. NIce to use technology in another way
Runs off and presses buy
Nice idea. Modern life is great at bombarding us with stuff the demands attention. NIce to use technology in another way
Runs off and presses buy
In the meantime, if you can get YouTube on your tellybox, Google Deerfield Beach for sun and sand (and their underwater cam is great for fish!) - mute the telly, turn the tunes up. 🙂
Kryts - you were sat on a quiet beach and you only stayed there 5 mins?! I’d be living there at the moment!! 😀
@nickc Regarding Taiwan. Just to clarify that the cliff edged coast is on the east side of Taiwan (the furtheset away from mainland China). The west coast is mainly completely flat with marsh land. I know because I used to live there.
Not sure there’s a none paywall version out there?
I've just emailed the Telegraph asking them if they could drop the paywall on the Ukrainian articles. Seems worth asking.
Just listened to the bunker podcast. 30 mins with John Sweeney in Kiev right now. It’s quite encouraging and v v entertaining. He seems unbelievably chill as well
Thanks for that. I've been trying to avoid looking at any news report, not just because for example the tabloids are doom mongering with very unsettling and unhelpful descriptions of nuclear war, but also trying not to see how bad things are.
That's the first actual news report I've seen in days. And as you say, quite encouraging.
The BBC is taking me on an emotional rollercoaster, last night there was a 40 mile long line of tanks and artillery ready to flatten Kyiv and end everything in a single night. Now it is a rag tag collection of vans which can't make it down the road without braking down. Can't help wondering if these snippets are being orchestrated to maximise the level of support and feeling of urgency in getting supplies to Ukraine. Excellent job if so.
BBC live feed at 4:31 today:
Some clarity on that massive Russian armoured column heading south towards Kyiv.Close analysis of the latest satellite images by McKenzie Intelligence Services reveals the following:
The convoy is not 40 miles long, it’s a series of logistical ‘packets’ strung out along a major highway from the Belarus border, aiming to link up with Russian units on the northern outskirts of Kyiv.
The convoy appears to be hampered in several places by broken down vehicles.
The column consists of some armour (tanks) and infantry fighting vehicles but mainly logistical vehicles, implying plans for more than just a brief battle.
Separately, the imagery examined by McKenzie Intelligence Services shows a Russian parachute battalion dug in to the area of Hostomel airfield - Ukraine's most important international cargo airport and a key military airbase near Kyiv.But their artillery is assessed to be outside the range of most of the capital.
The analysts say they have noted very little Russian progress over the past 24 hours.
The balls on these people (and ovaries). On seeing some Russian tanks and soldiers do they run, or hide? No, they grab their car keys and some Molotov cocktails.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-molotov-cocktails-russia-tanks-b2025849.html
Ref the convoy - apparently it is not 40 miles long, but is a series of packets of vehicles - a significant number none the less. A large number are thought to be soft skinned logistics vehicles, suggesting a)they are anticipating a long stay b)not worried about air attacks…
So the question is when will the big assault come? I would imagine the Ukrainians are using their time to fortify the city. Further East one of the cities reports tramlines being chopped up and welded to make anti tank obstacles. Is it really 2022, or have we somehow gone back to 1942?
Fueled (appropriate name) beat me to it. As others have said though it is still very early days.
I just heard about a joke that is supposedly doing the rounds in Moscow:
'Have you read the book A Special Military Operation and Peace by Leo Tolstoy?'
Hope it's true 🙂
The balls on these people (and ovaries)
I saw that today on YT. Thought it incredibly brave.I'm a bit teary eyed over this TBH.
It's being reported that Russia is planning to lay siege to Kyiv.
Bombard/ starve them into submission magically.
I'm guessing that will please the hell out of I scoff cake.
A Russian businessman has put a $1million bounty out on putin.
I just heard about a joke that is supposedly doing the rounds in Moscow:
‘Have you read the book A Special Military Operation and Peace by Leo Tolstoy?’
Hope it’s true
Ha! I'll bet it is.
There was a famous joke back in the 70s - "What do you give a Soviet cat for dinner? A mouse coupon..."
Lay siege to a city Kyiv’s size? That sounds hugely ambitious.
Jim nails it:
See twitter for the uncensored version.
Caher
Full MemberSome top review trolling of Moscow attractions on Google maps. People publishing grim photos as part of a restaurant review.
It's actually pretty clever, this stuff. Obviously news sites and social media can be blocked/censored but you can use any channel to get the message through. Kind of the equivalent of dropping pamphlets out of planes. Whether it's effective or not, who knows.
Woah- is that why we call them fliers?
Klunk
Free Memberbet there’s no side arms allowed in the Kremlin
Ice axe?
Was hoping this was old footage, but now seeing it from a few places
https://twitter.com/WW3updated/status/1498731035172954113
The balls on these people (and ovaries). On seeing some Russian tanks and soldiers do they run, or hide? No, they grab their car keys and some Molotov cocktails.
That's massively impressive
It makes me wonder what the Russian soldiers think of it all- who do they think they were sent to fight and kill when a blond girl in a beany hat is lobbing fire bombs at them from a Renault Clio?!?
It makes me wonder what the Russian soldiers think of it all- who do they think they were sent to fight and kill when a blond girl in a beany hat is lobbing fire bombs at them from a Renault Clio?!?
I thought they have been told they are there as a peacekeeping force to because Ukraine is being run by a Nazi government.
If they have had no access to any other information and a blonde girl in a beany hat is throwing petrol bombs at you from a Renault Clio , then I would imagine they think all hell has broken loose and they were there to help.
It has to **** with your head a huge amount.
It is also the nonchalance of the rebellious actions that is amazing too
Andrew Neil on Twitter suggesting that the big convoy is starting to surrender, deliberately sabotaging thier own vehicles. Source he claims is Pentagon/US intelligence...
Please be true.
https://mobile.twitter.com/afneil/status/1498735148128681986
Russia confirmed to be using cluster bombs on targets.
Fully verified by channel 4 with the help of a consultant looking at the discarded casings of them posted on the net in Ukraine.
Blanket bombing.
A Russian businessman has put a $1million bounty out on putin.
I'm sure we could crowdfund a much bigger bounty than that.
Lay siege to a city Kyiv’s size? That sounds hugely ambitious.
Erm... Leningrad?
I’m sure we could crowdfund a much bigger bounty than that.
I'm hoping that is just the start
Andrew Neil on Twitter suggesting that the big convoy is starting to surrender, deliberately sabotaging thier own vehicles. Source he claims is Pentagon/US intelligence…
Please be true.
No mention of the big convoy there sadly
I’d chip in. I’ve read this whole thread with equal parts interest, awe at what Ukrainian citizens are doing and sadness at the fact it is happening at all. I have no experience or knowledge of military tactics or the history of the area. Very naive of me but I just can’t understand the mentality of it all.
China wanting to claim Taiwan, Russia doing what they’re doing. Just madness. Doubly so when the planet is basically ****ed and we should all be working together to reverse the damage we have done as a species, not having nations compete in some sort of dick measuring contest to see who can scoop up the most land. It won’t mean shit when the planet warms by three degrees.
Sorry for the rant.