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Those 7 MP’s with the whip suspended for 6 months are some of the real talent in Labour. Sultana, Burgon
Burgon? Really? Talent for what exactly? He stood as the living embodiment of ‘is that all we’ve got left?’ Under magic grandad
If I wasn’t such an uneducated working class thicko, I could maybe have dreamt of attending the Tony Benn University of Political Education
If only….
withdrawing US support will also be the thing that ends Israel as a state
Well, if you're going to right historic wrongs, you've got to start somewhere...
I bet it wouldn’t be too hard to unearth evidence of you arguing the case for Proportional Representation historically!
Or even against the two child cap. However since the glorious leader has spoken binners will leap to attention and spew bile against anyone who dares question these good labour policies.
I assume he hates sixth form politics so much because the teachers gave up in despair about how easily led he was.
Looking at the guardian comments it really is hard to spot the difference between the dedicated starmerites and the daily heils commentators around the two child cap. I suspect many who felt obliged to oppose it when it was a tory policy are now liking that they can indulge in their prejudices since the glorious leader hasnt gone against it.
Starmer will probably get shut of it next week now the vote has served its purpose… getting rid of the last of magic grandads disciples.
They can join him in backbench, placard-waving irrelevance.
Their spiritual home
I think the withdrawal of the whip is a miscalculation politically. Yes, I understand the desire to have a tight ship, and no I don't think its antidemocratic to require MPs to confirm to the party platform on which they were elected.
However, if you have a majority of ten zillion, including a whole bunch of people you never expected to make it, it's inevitable that some of them are going to dissent esp if it's symbolic. It's also not like they're supporting some mad anti-Semitic or trolling motion for which there really can't be any tolerance. The whips should have let it ride, one way or another.
Burgon? Really? Talent for what exactly? He stood as the living embodiment of ‘is that all we’ve got left?’ Under magic grandad
If I wasn’t such an uneducated working class thicko, I could maybe have dreamt of attending the Tony Benn University of Political Education
Erm, yeah....right you are then!
Sixth form level politics in action.
Looking strong rather than doing the right thing does seem pretty childish.
Especially as Starmer has recently been making noises suggesting he’s open to it anyway.
I’ll bet it gets reversed in the budget anyway
Aye right. Starmer and Reeves have picked a ridiculous hill to die on. They could have committed to this in the future, they could have just said the two child cap with the abhorrent rape clause will be removed as soon as feasible. Everyone who works in the area ie the experts have said it needs to go. Its perfectly affordable ie the cost is lower than many commitments they have made
It is indefensible on any grounds to keep this policy and note thoser totally uncritical of labour on here have not even attempted to make a defense of this policy
They can join him in backbench, placard-waving irrelevance.
Whereas you are joining the daily ****ing heil.
Your spiritual home by any chance?
I wonder if Starmer felt compelled not to scrap the cap as he thought it would be seen as a weakness in future rebellions? Making them more likely in the future.
Anyway, it's all a bit daft, it seems inevitable that it will be scrapped** and 7 MP's have lost the whip over it.
** It should have already been scrapped imo.
Oh, I often forget that everyone not to the left of Jeremy Corbyn is a Nazi
Thanks for the reminder though comrade
Thanks TJ. Looks like extra child benefit.
https://www.mygov.scot/scottish-child-payment
Like it. Not quite a mitigation for the cap, but in many ways better. Would like to see something like that UK wide. Or just raise child benefit for all to make it simpler (and taxes elsewhere to balance).
Wow, clearly a lot of people in here who don’t quite understand politics.
80% of the public are against lifting the cap.
Anyone who defies a three line whip to vote against their own government must be suspended, 100% the correct decision. The Tories didn’t do this and they all lost all authority. It’s basic politics. Sure there is lots of ranting on social media, but most aren’t taking everything into account.
Politics isn’t getting everything you want all the time, Starmer clearly isn’t a fan of it but the chance to do it has gone for now. Contrary to what people seem to believe for some reason, it doesn’t mean they won’t ever do it. I give it less than a year.
Then everyone can start moaning about other stuff.
80% of the public are against lifting the cap.
Really? any evidence to back that up?
Aye right. Starmer and Reeves have picked a ridiculous hill to die on.
You've definitely got this the other way round
7 MPs just voted against something in the manifesto they were elected on <3 weeks ago
And yes the 2child cap is ridiculous punishment of the poorest families and I'll bet it's effectively scraped in the budget
Wow, clearly a lot of people in here who don’t quite understand politics.
Thanks for enlightening us with your wisdom.
EDIT. Three line whip yet 40 something Labour abstains....hardly screams party discipline.
Oh, I often forget that everyone not to the left of Jeremy Corbyn is a Nazi
Nah, just a bunch of people who think it's better to scrap something that makes children go hungry, rather than getting all tumescent* over a strong man act.
* You'd know what that meant if you'd been to college.
The Tories didn’t do this and they all lost all authority. It’s basic politics.
If you are going to lecture people on "basic politics" you could at least get the facts vaguely right.
The tories under Johnson actually went full tilt for expelling the unbelievers in the glorious leader and it really didnt help them.
Politics isn’t getting everything you want all the time,
Well **** me sideways with an epileptic hedgehog its so handy that a political genius like you is here to explain the basics to us.
However whilst you are doing so can you start with explaining exactly how Starmer is blocked from choosing to change the policy? Remind me when the next ****ing election is? How exactly would he be punished for this? Bonus marks if you can manage sixth form politics essay standards about how it is easy to make the changes early.
I know its hard defending hard right policies but try for ****s sake rather than simply announcing anyone who disagrees simply isnt up to your level of genius.
80% of the public are against lifting the cap.
That's a very, uhhh, specific number.
Anyone who defies a three line whip to vote against their own government must be suspended
That’s not true. There are a variety of possible outcomes. They didn't have to be suspended or didn't have to be suspended for so long. A 24 hour suspension would have been enough of a spanking for the rebels to make their point without lasting consequences. Now they're going to be determined to be the awkward squad forever.
But in any case - it wouldn't have killed the PLP not to have the vote whipped. Or only lightly whipped. They still would have won and it would have been possible to avoid a confrontation of this scale so early in the life of the parliament.
Newsnight is well worth a watch tonight for the incredible bravery of new Labour MP Natalie Fleet talking about being groomed and raped at 15, and violence against women and girls. She’s detailing what Labour are going to do to support rape victims and prosecute offenders
its really moving to watch
These are exactly the people we need in government
https://Twitter.com/wistfulcass/status/1815869278630854735?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
That’s a very, uhhh, specific number.
Oddly enough the only survey I could find came in at 60% Unless you only count tory and farage plc voters which does hit the 80%.
80% of the public are against lifting the cap.
Really?, are you sure it’s not 79%….could be 8%……..perhaps 32%……..personally I like the sound of 27%.
And yes the 2child cap is ridiculous punishment of the poorest families and I’ll bet it’s effectively scraped in the budget
sop why is it not being scrapped now? Its an easy thing to do, it will cost a small ampunt and it will immediately help raise children out of poverty
so why not do it now?
* You’d know what that meant if you’d been to college.
I do actually have a degree, but it’s for crayoning so probably doesn’t count, right?
I don’t do big words, but then maybe that’s a blessing as I don’t generally feel that would make me somehow superior to everyone else, in a sneering and condescending way
You crack on though. It’s really impressive
*swoons*
If Labour can't show willing on something so simple, so easy and so straight forward then what precedent is it setting?
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1815832426675068974?t=9yve89oX6bVqkCU2Ha7ksQ&s=19
An embarrassment of a party. But it doesn't surprise me.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1815464130452877772?t=yGk9fGiVe6Razin7EQzg2A&s=19
Brainless commentary from Jacqui Smith.
Inept. Economically illogical.
Well I wasn’t expecting abuse but seems to be the way of politics on social media.
Not letting me edit my post so I can clarify it was “only” 60%. Please accept my humble apologies for not fully agreeing with you all. But 80/60, still the same outcome.
I shan’t read any further comments as I don’t put up with being mocked, so enjoy the rest of your time here.
The lifting of the 2 child cap when finances permitted was the manifesto pledge. Labour are just following this. I am pretty convinced it will be lifted as soon as it can be. Ironic tho' that Braverman (lols), the Corbynites and SNP are united in opposition to this. Just needs Reform to join to be the full set of opportunists.
I agree with the 6th form analogy for the 7 that have been suspended. 2 weeks ago they were campaigning on that manifesto.
This is why I’m not a Labour voter or supporter anymore. The feel good start period is definitely over.
After 2 weeks?? Right OK...... Labour Achievements under Starmer after 2 weeks....
Appoint Richard Timpson as prisons minister, Richard Hermer as Attorney General (Soz Ems), Patrick Valance as Minister of Science. People who genuinely understand their field.
End the Rwanda scheme, Close the Bibby Stockholm prison ship
Announce an ambitious house building programme
Announce the formation of GB Green Energy
End the ban on on-shore windfarms
Promise an extra 40,000 appointments and operations a week in England
Open new negotiations with Junior Doctors
Start recruitment of a new leader for the new Border Security Command (BSC) (lols)
Reset the relationship with European partners
Call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza (Meet with both Palestinian and Israeli leaders)
Announce the appointment of a Covid corruption commissioner
Prevent MPs taking on second jobs that dont benefit their consituants (eg lobbying jobs)
Labour Achievements under Corbyn (and MacDonald, Long Bailey, Burgon and the rest of the cwazy gang) in 5 years;
.
.
.
.
.
(moral victory)
As for todays back slapping SNP & Stephen Flynn. The GE result was just the start. Until the SNP sort out their governance and move on from 2014 and try and appeal to all the no voters they will continue to decline, and get slaughtered in the MSP elections.
@rone I'm fairly convinced that I know your politics and nature fairly well, so a word of caution on Bastani..... he's gone flirting with fascism on some of the stuff he's putting out there these days. Of course not that post that you've shared, but there's some very bad stuff on immigration etc.
@j4mie you charge headlong into the thread saying that most posters know nothing about politics. Then cry when people push back. Well, cheers again for your enlightening contributions.
So if the 2 child cap is unaffordable now what makes you think it will suddenly become affordable in the budget which is 8 months away? Or do you mean the spending review at some point before that? Given the pledges made so far its not going to be affordable then either
Well I wasn’t expecting abuse but seems to be the way of politics on social media.
I would suggest if you dont want abuse then you shouldnt start by hurling abuse at others.
Read what you wrote about others "don’t quite understand politics." and "ranting on social media" and so on and it might explain why you got the response you did. Its frankly binneresque.
I’m fairly convinced that I know your politics and nature fairly well, so a word of caution on Bastani….. he’s gone flirting with fascism on some of the stuff he’s putting out there these days. Of course not that post that you’ve shared, but there’s some very bad stuff on immigration etc.
I've followed many commentators over the years including Bastani. I don't agree with everything he says at all.
I've seen little evidence of what you are suggesting with all due respect.
Well I wasn’t expecting abuse but seems to be the way of politics on social media
You get used to it. There’s a little pack of lefty hyenas on here who get together and pile on to anyone who disagrees with them.
They clearly have righteousness on their side - something bestowed on them through their sanctimonious idealogical purity or something
They come on here to competitively virtue signal to each other. Apparently it’s a thing. Kids nowadays eh?
Ironic tho’ that Braverman (lols), the Corbynites and SNP are united in opposition to this
And yet it is the supporters of the glorious leader Starmer who are getting into bed with a hard right tory policy. So crack ****ing on.
The lifting of the 2 child cap when finances permitted was the manifesto pledge. Labour are just following this. I am pretty convinced it will be lifted as soon as it can be.
It could be lifted tomorrow. it should have already gone by now. so its not going to be lifted "as soon as it can be" because they have made a political decision not to do so If its unaffordable now then what is going to change to make it affordable at any point in the future?
But in any case – it wouldn’t have killed the PLP not to have the vote whipped. Or only lightly whipped. They still would have won and it would have been possible to avoid a confrontation of this scale so early in the life of the parliament.
The kings speech is the programme for government, they voted against the manifesto they were elected on just 3 weeks ago....
If they didn't support the manifesto why campaign on it?
Until the SNP sort out their governance and move on from 2014 and try and appeal to all the no voters they will continue to decline, and get slaughtered in the MSP elections.
I'm not sure about that. By the time they roll around, Scottish voters might think the General Election was enough of a punishment for the SNP, and Labour isn't quite as shiny in (UK) government as it was in (UK) opposition. And at the risk of being repetitive - Anas Sarwar can't pull off the Upright and Rigorous routine that Kier Starmer could.
But anyway, all of that is off topic for this thread...
Not the out of context ideological purity argument, again. Sigh.
Meaningless.
Back in the real world
So if the 2 child cap is unaffordable now what makes you think it will suddenly become affordable in the budget which is 8 months away?
Well exactly -because Labour are making stuff up about the economy and how it functions.
The government doesn't wait for money, can you imagine a system like that?
Did they wait for money for COVID or just spend it? Lmfao.
Ultimately doesn't matter because when their planning reforms basically do nothing (other than move money to developers) and their lack of spending under performs for growth - then we can all talk about magic growth fairy in pragmatic terms.
Aye right. Starmer and Reeves have picked a ridiculous hill to die on.
So 3 weeks in they have defended an abhorrent tory policy, faced a significant rebellion ( 40 abstentions make it so) Peed off everyone who worked in child poverty. Ignored the actual evidence and lost a lot of goodwill. why? It just makes no sense.
None of you can defend retaining this piece of performative cruelty
And yet it is the supporters of the glorious leader Starmer who are getting into bed with a hard right tory policy. So crack **** on.
Yes - bet we could go through posts and see them screaming with anger when the Tories put it out there.
Rage filled posts about poverty and how disgusting the Tories are.
Now it's ideological purity apparently .
And yet it is the supporters of the glorious leader Starmer who are getting into bed with a hard right tory policy. So crack **** on.
But thats not the manifesto pledge is it? And it was introduced in 2017, so if Corbyn hadnt been such a dick and un-electable, there might have been a labour gov't in power (they had two chances and even lost to the known liar Johnson!) to reverse it before the financial crash caused by covid, the Truss budget, and the cost of living thing. But if you need to tanty please do crack on & write off Starmer 2 weeks in.
Not the out of context ideological purity argument, again. Sigh.
Yup with bonus points for whining about people being nasty to him despite him hurling abuse at others. Its not surprising that he leapt to the defence of someone who showed the same gammon like tendencies of wanting to hand out insults but not take it.
It is odd how his arguments so closely match the gammons given his seeming hatred of them.
Well I wasn’t expecting abuse but seems to be the way of politics on social media
You get used to it. There’s a little pack of lefty hyenas on here who get together and pile on to anyone who disagrees with them.
They clearly have righteousness on their side – something bestowed on them through their sanctimonious idealogical purity or something
They come on here to competitively virtue signal to each other. Apparently it’s a thing. Kids nowadays eh?
I mean the gaslighting is just off the charts here!
to reverse it before the financial crash caused by covid, the Truss budget, and the cost of living thing
There is no technical reason why they can't afford it. None. Zip.
It's just a choice. It's also peanuts in the grand scheme of the economy. And they want growth well this sort of things feeds into growth. Just like money into the NHS.
Doesn't matter, Labour are heading towards a big fat fail of a party unless something comes out of the hat.
Still time for them to stop with this nonsense.