only not as good as we had while we were a member. What was the point of Brexit again?
Very confusing post. It stands to reason that any trade deal we do with the EU will not be as good as being a member, otherwise there's no advantage to being a member. I don't remember anyone claiming we'd have a better trade deal with the EU after leaving.
only not as good as we had while we were a member. What was the point of Brexit again?
Very confusing post. It stands to reason that any trade deal we do with the EU will not be as good as being a member, otherwise there's no advantage to being a member. I don't remember anyone claiming we'd have a better trade deal with the EU after leaving.
Ah, but they need us more than we need them. Allegedly.
A worthwhile step in re-integrating into the EU is a customs union, everything proposed is just a veneer for political show, it is Trumpesque politics, selling a deal that isn't really the sum of sweet FA.
Everything Starmer does is on the wrong side of the line, trying to sneak up on the line to the minimal change that can be sold as acceptable. He is an absolute political coward offering zero leadership and even less credibility.
He is an absolute political coward offering zero leadership and even less credibility.
Think he's probably the opposite to a coward. In the current climate it would be easier for him to be a radical, but that's not his job. He's an establishment politician and his primary job is to keep everything the same no matter how much it damages him politically.
Nice (from where I'm sitting) - plenty of fish, less hassle at customs (believe that when I experience it), cheap labour in European holiday resorts that are suffereing a labour shortage and the Daily Mail is apoplectic. What's not to like?
MSP - what you want and what is going to happen are mutually exclusive. This is a great step towards improving what has been a shitshow for years. It's it where we want it to end up? No, but that isn't reality right now
the minimal change that can be sold as acceptable
Don't reject the offer of a walking stick because no one is offering to stitch your leg back on (which you cut off yourself while in K-hole).
Don't reject the offer of a walking stick because no one is offering to stitch your leg back on (which you cut off yourself while in K-hole).
This.
bollocks
If you want an analogy, he is the surgeon who's job is to stitch your leg back on, but he wants to play golf and have his photo taken so he is offering a walking stick instead.
He is choosing this path, he has a massive majority (oh how the stamerbots crowed about that) but he is too cowardly and too beholden to the oligarchs to use it for the public good.
You seem angry, are you ok?
You seem angry, are you ok?
Ah thought so, your just trying to wind people up, well done you must be very pleased with yourself.
Nah only in that last comment. My previous one was 100% truthful and actually what I think. The comment was only partly cheeky though.
People are getting far too worked up over this in general to an unhealthy degree in some cases
I don't remember anyone claiming we'd have a better trade deal with the EU after leaving.
“Everything will get much cheaper – absolutely."
Nigel Farage
Note he didn't say 'everything apart from trade with the EU' he said "everything...absolutley".
“Everything will get much cheaper – absolutely."
Well obviously he was lying. But even if he believed it, we can assume he did so because he (wrongly, obvs) assumed that goods from outside the EU would replace EU goods and drive prices down. Obviously though leaving the EU meant that prices on EU goods would go up, I don't think anyone thought otherwise.
In any case, I don't think the price of goods was a major driver in the vote to leave. As discussed a million times before, leaving the EU was a result of a combination of misplaced patriotism/jingoism and growing resentment of the neo-liberal establishment and economic status quo of which the EU was a major driver.
I would see this as what it is - real progress in a relationship ruined by people who can only see their own interests and are unable to operate in the reality of having to work at compromise and solution.
It will take a long time and there are big risks from bad actors but nothing will make them go away , can only smother them in reality.
The EU deal is symbolic as much as anything - it signals a change of mood and (hopefully) a direction for further closer cooperation
Politically it flushes out the Tories/Badenoch who have to match Reform on rhetoric but which is speaking to a minority. This gives the Govt a lot of room to manoeuvre going forward
It's certainly a step in the right direction.
It will be a long and grueling process to Undo the damage caused by the people who voted for brexit.
I suppose it's inevitable to at least end up back in the CU and SM, purely because it's just not financially viable not to.
The economics of the current situation simply don't make sense - they never did, but people are gullible.
The economics of the current situation simply don't make sense - they never did, but people are gullible.
The economics of the previous situation didn't make sense*, which is why people voted to leave.
People aren't gullible, they know when they're suffering financially better than politicians do because they can feel it in their pockets. What they might not fully understand is why but that's the politicians job to analyse and resolve.
*the current situation isn't any better obvs
Not going down well with the fishing community in Scotland. I dare say many of them were brexiteers but I have a certain amount of sympathy for some of them.
The provisions for relaxing animal product exports are very welcome, UK exports of poultry and other meat has halved since Brexit, and my job touches on animal products (for science) and the increase in red tape has been nuts.
In the last month Starmer has managed some sort of trade deals with >1/4 of the worlds population; EU, USA, India, economy is looking more resilient than predicted- employer NI rise has seen mass layoffs, inflation still low, energy bills set to fall, fingers crossed economy is going to keep growing.
meanwhile brexiteers in a pickle
these kind of deals are exactly what brexit was supposed to be about, but because its starmer/ EU they have to hate on it
on every aspect Brexit failed to deliver- less immigration, better NHS, better economy, less inequality etc etc
Making this an annual summit was quite canny too
Starmer fixing the Brexit mess could help neutralise Farage more than pointlessly trying to outflank him on immigration ever could
The economics of the current situation simply don't make sense - they never did, but people are gullible.
The economics of the previous situation didn't make sense*, which is why people voted to leave.
People aren't gullible, they know when they're suffering financially better than politicians do because they can feel it in their pockets. What they might not fully understand is why but that's the politicians job to analyse and resolve.
*the current situation isn't any better obvs
Gullible or just plain nasty.
You'd have to be one of the two... Often a bit of both, to arrive at the conclusion the 52% did.
Making this an annual summit was quite canny too
Interesting detail I’d missed. Thanks.
Building a new relationship is a long slow iterative process. One that will be soundtracked by the sellers of imaginary quick fixes shouting negative soundbites all along the way.
It was the deep sea fisherman that wanted Brexit - ironically this 'new' deal is pretty-well a roll-over of the one negotiated by the Tories but you want read/hear that in most of the media. The vast majority of the fish consumed in the UK is imported from Iceland and Russia as it doesn't exist in UK waters.
The ones that have been suffering are the inshore fisherman who predominantly catch shellfish which has seen a significant reduction in exports. That said, the local ones here are quite happy for non-local trawlers to fish in a Marine Protected Area thus devastating the stocks, so F***-em I say.
The whole thing shrinks into insignificance when you consider that Games Workshop contribution to the UK economy is bigger than the whole seafood sector.
People aren't gullible
So how did 52% of us vote to make ourselves worse off - financially, politically and culturally?
The Remain campaign went to a lot of trouble enunciating the benefits of EU membership in a fairly detailed pamphlet, I remember.
But they were defeated by three word slogans, bullshit promises that never stood up to scrutiny and some racist/xenophobic scaremongering.
I suppose it's inevitable to at least end up back in the CU and SM
Not if we let Faragism take over.
@Dovebiker I agree with you about the inshore fishermen it's a pity that their voice was always drowned out (no pun intended) during the Brexit referendum. I have not much sympathy for Sir Ian Wood and the other deep sea fishing corporation owners.
I don't agree that loss of jobs along the Moray /Fraserburgh coast on deep sea boats is insignificant though
My last long post on this thread ended with the idea that what Starmer should be concentrating on is increasing and improving the housing stock. In Strasbourg we had a walk around this place:
https://sers.eu/realisations/zac-danube-strasbourg/
And in the Guardian today there's this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2025/may/19/paris-eco-district-pictures
In Brum I had a look at some of the new projects and shook my head in dismay, has nothing been learned from the brutalist period?
So how can Mr Starmer be persuaded to provide incentives and a legislative framework for new districts with trams, services, parcs, energy efficient buildings, greenery and a reasonable quality of life?
Ll accidentally reposted
So how can Mr Starmer be persuaded to provide incentives and a legislative framework for new districts with trams, services, parcs, energy efficient buildings, greenery and a reasonable quality of life?
That sounds like socialism to me, and we're not very good at that in the UK.
It's our god-given right to be ripped off from all angles by the private sector because...
Socialism is bad. Apparently.
I suppose it's inevitable to at least end up back in the CU and SM
Not if we let Faragism take over.
True, it would have to defy all logic... but then people seem to be happy to vote to hurt themselves as long as they get the correct amount of smoke blown up their bottoms, egos stroked the right way, etc...
I mean just look at trump in the USA... the guy is a convicted sex offender and financial fraudster... has somehow avoided jail through pure corruption, yet people vote for him because occasionally he says something they agree with, like the price of eggs should be cheaper or whatever...
And then they will wonder why... and then blame small boats or something...I mean that's absolutley the definition of stupidity...but there are still people on here who insist the hatchet job that was brexit is now irreversible, it's done, get over it, etc.
We have a general election to replace the government every 4 years... why can't we have another election to decide whether brexit was a good idea or not? *a legal one this time...
That's going to have far more impact on our society than whether we have a center left or center right government.
Are we back to politics started in 2016?
Sigh.
Socialism is bad. Apparently.
Wait until most people realise they've barely had a hint of socialism in their lifetime and the majority of the shit being dumped on the economy now is a consequence of Labour and Conservative running disastrous Neoliberal policies. Often with zero framework or analysis. Read - interest rates a policy to control inflation.
Everyone's a capitalist until they can't afford it.
I can't even find a private dentist I trust in the UK, never mind an NHS one 🤣
This is the real problem, and that won't be solved trivial solutions, and it isn't just the UK it is the whole of the western world, we have been living under an oligarchy for at least a couple of decades, and are rapidly moving towards kleptocracy. US billionaires are leading the way, and the rest of the world is following.
And yet they get away with non-dom status despite sitting in the House of Lords and owning an estate in the UK. And have most of their money stashed away in trusts and complex financial structures that the City specialises in so they pay **** all tax.
snip....
Watch this.. the entire global finance system is rigged.... US billionaires are not leading the way, they are just the ones in the spotlight at the moment.
And no, I don't know how it can ever be fixed without a global government to controll such hings, which brings its own obvious risks to make tings even worse.
The problem is humans are inherently selfish, so good luck trying to get global consensus.
Give this a watch:
stupid forum double/triple post... the last one was only edtited for typos.
snip....
Watch this.. the entire global finance system is rigged.... US billionaires are not leading the way, they are just the ones in the spotlight at the moment.
And no, I don't know how it can ever be fixed without a global government to controll such things, which brings its own obvious risks to make tings even worse.
The problem is humans are inherently selfish, so good luck trying to get global consensus.
Give this a watch:
Humans are generally generous to people in their 'in' group and hostile to those in their 'out' group. The difference is how big your groups are and who's in them and why.
Starmer’s EU reset triggers outbreak of Brexit derangement syndrome | John Crace https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/19/starmers-eu-reset-triggers-outbreak-of-brexit-derangement-syndrome?CMP=share_btn_url
Don't know that will work. Fairly standard John Crace fare, but on point as usual.
And to think Hannan and Frost were both made peers for their heroic deeds.
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
🤣🤣🤣
Brexit derangement syndrome.. thats brilliant 🤣 👍
if you want to see brext derranegment syndrome you only have to look at the front pages of the rw press today!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czr88myp570o
Id genuinely forgotten how much they were willing to lie about the EU & Brexit, whats remarkable is that millions believe them!
The extreme - deranged if you like - right wing response to limited deal is unsurprising but actually useful.
They have nowhere to go in terms of ramping up the rhetoric if future deals go further. When they kick off people will just think - here goes Farage/Badenoch again - blah blah - nothing bad happened last time.
As I said further up the thread it creates space for Labour to get more breadth to the deal over time whilst the right try to out do each other on Brexit orthodoxy
Let's hope the government take the opportunity
sorry wrong link above! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2e7z72r0eo
It's good to see them finally speaking out about Isreal as well - I think this will be an interesting time for a government - some abhorrent unforgivable things, & some actual good things.
Won't be enough to keep them in power. But who knows where we'll be in 4 years.
It's good to see them finally speaking out about Isreal as well - I think this will be an interesting time for a government - some abhorrent unforgivable things, & some actual good things.
yes I was thinking that, probably for the gaza thread but it seems to be spiraling further, the government really should be taking a stand, though ultimately Netenyahu will do whatever he wants regardless, its only USA that can really influence & trump is too busy being bribed by the gulf states
Israel is nuclear armed and a US client.
Anyone else's approach seems to be calibrated to reach supposed breaking point about five minutes after the last Palestinian leaves Gaza - either on foot or in a body bag.
The whole thing shrinks into insignificance when you consider that Games Workshop contribution to the UK economy is bigger than the whole seafood sector.
Its truely insane when you look at it from that perspective but Boats, it’s always the least insignificant stuff that seems to be heavily focused on and turned into one of the main reasons that a bunch of eu haters can bang on about.
In of it,out of it the EU and the unelected bureaucrats are still being used as one of the bogey men, and so returns Boris as the gravy train wheels start to slowly turn again and off we go on the ‘Giving up Brexit benefits’ those magical things that only get mentioned when they are er threatened and seem to have evaded everyone at any other time.
It’s hard to think that Brexit vote was 10 years ago and still we are having it used, I reckon in another 10 years they can roll it out again and go the other way and rejoin,it’s been a brilliant mcGuffin for a few people, like Farage and Johnson and tbh anyone whose been a Tory PM or MP even , without it they wouldn’t have had the opportunity to stuff at the trough.
and so returns Boris
Oh, has that particular turd bobbed back to the surface?
I'm surprised he can be bothered. He already got everything he wanted out of the original Brexit con. He must be doing a (paid) favour for someone.
I'm surprised he can be bothered. He already got everything he wanted out of the original Brexit con.
He left government as a failure. That has to hurt his ego and combined with how Churchill returned triumphant I suspect he does still have some fantasies along those lines. Guess it depends how much he has managed to grift so far..
It’s hard to think that Brexit vote was 10 years ago and still we are having it used
It will always be used until the UK governments take action on wealth distribution and the cost of living crisis. In or out of the EU if they don't do that then they will always need the convenient dead cat of the EU and immigration.
