I can confirm that its not easy, but I want a decent healthcare system and services that work for everyone so yeah paying tax is something Im willing to do
absolutely agree. However the fact it’s ’not Easy’ kind of proves the point that you aren’t ’well off’. You are however in a far better position than many. it also massively depends on your circumstances. A household with 2 people earning 35k will be far better off than a single parent earning 60k
10 years ago 60k would have had me absolutely rolling in cash. The state of the country now, not so much.
We pay more tax that at any time in the last 60 years or so, and while I don't mind contributing, I would like to be reassured that 1. My taxes* are used to provide compassionate, useful, and available services, and 2. that before I'm asked for more money from my earnings, other avenues - business taxes, windfalls, taxes on assets, inheritance and even perhaps re-nationalisation of things to make them more affordable, have been fully exploited.
*yes, I know.
grimep has long been twitching my troll radar and isn't doing a lot to change that view today. But if they aren't, then they fundamentally misunderstand how the higher rate works.
We pay more tax that at any time in the last 60 years or so, and while I don’t mind contributing, I would like to be reassured that 1. My taxes* are used to provide compassionate, useful, and available services, and 2. that before I’m asked for more money from my earnings, other avenues – business taxes, windfalls, taxes on assets, inheritance and even perhaps re-nationalisation of things to make them more affordable, have been fully exploited.
and 3 - aren't being funnelled into the pockets of the already rich.
Ha it's bonkers isn't it. How much did his education cost? The net result of which, is that he thought that it was a good idea during a GE campaign to leave the 80th anniversary of D-Day to record a political broadcast in which you say that inspite of going to one of the most expensive schools in the country, you had to do without as a child because you didn't have Sky TV 😳
Maybe we should just abolish private schools on the basis that they're ripping off rich parents 😂
Only a socialist mindset could think that it is fair that someone who has worked their way up to a tragic wage of 50k, which equates to £700 something a week take home pay, barely enough to pay the monthly bills, feed and clothe the kids and dog and keep of roof over their heads, should have a greater proportion of their pay removed by the state than someone earning 49,999 and below.
Except you're wrong.
This is how indirect taxes look as a proportion of disposable income. I.e even once you've taken out the bigger mortgages of those top earners, they only pay less than 10% of the remainder in tax. Whereas the poorest are paying 3x more as a proportion of their disposable income.
That's what's not fair.
Sauce: Those socialists at the ONS.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/financialyearending2022
Forget about the is 50k a lot or not bobbins, it's a distraction.
What we need is to tax income from assets more proportionally compared to the level of income on paye.
That above graph is something that Labour need to unleash into the wild & mobilise people with the promise change those percentages.
and @grimep you're wrong about thinking that a sprinkling of socialism is bad for those of us lucky enough too be in the top percentiles.
I work in my well paid job designing things that make stuff to sell to people (aka engineering).
The more of the country is lifted out of poverty, the the more stuff they can be sold, the more things are required to make stuff, the more I need to design and the more I get paid.
It's a better outcome than all the money flowing up the pyramid which eventually always causes it to collapse.
What we need is to tax income from assets more proportionally compared to the level of income on paye.
Absolutely this.
It’s insane that we’re taxed substantially far more for working than others are for sitting on their arses and just accumulating wealth simply because they have capital, so own (valuable) stuff
what @llama said.
they love it when everyone fights/argues amongst themselves about who has it the worst.
35k-55k-75k....whatever, everyone thinks those above should be paying, its totally understandable but the 'proper rich' (however you want to define that) are hovering up assets. the entire system is designed to minimise the tax they pay on them which leads to them using the extra money they have hoovering up assets.
I have a feeling that reforming housing would do a lot more for the disadvantaged than reforming tax. The problem though is that a lot of richer people might actually lose out.
Ed still on holiday
He seems to be having more fun than Rishi! though.
I have a feeling that reforming housing would do a lot more for the disadvantaged than reforming tax. The problem though is that a lot of richer people might actually lose out.
Agree, but could at least be offering some things that go towards it.
That above graph is something that Labour need to unleash into the wild & mobilise people with the promise change those percentages
This is the foundation of the (less than perfect) Scottish progressive income tax rates.
I'm in the fortunate position of earning enough that I would keep a lot more earned income south of the border. But I'm fortunate to earn what I do, and appreciate I'm contributing to public services so do not object.
Totally agree on a much more progressive tax system which looks at overall wealth, rather than earned income. EDIT: and this has to include Council Tax/local property tax. We need to develop a less complex system than we currently have too.
Agree that more parties should be calling clearly for this, particularly Labour, Lib Dem and SNP.
IIRC Green already suggest it.
they love it when everyone fights/argues amongst themselves about who has it the worst.
35k-55k-75k….whatever, everyone thinks those above should be paying, its totally understandable but the ‘proper rich’ (however you want to define that) are hovering up assets. the entire system is designed to minimise the tax they pay on them which leads to them using the extra money they have hoovering up assets
This is so true. I think I've got to the point where I don't really card what happens in this election. Labour will win, but inherit a shit show which they can't resolve within 4 years even if they had brave, excellent ideas.
And given that the rich control the stupid, the Tories will be back in at the next election because that is our default position within the UK.
I can't see how anyone who looks at the last 6 years can have any other viewpoint really. But nonetheless keen to hear it....
I earn a reasonable amount, live in a very cheap area and am doing ok but don't know how we'd afford to have kids.
I'm happy to pay my taxes (yes I'll moan but....)
There does need reform. I know a couple of very wealthy people who pay way less than me. In fact on paper they should be getting all sorts of benefits. Also a few self employed who operate a two tin system. They do a good job of minimizing tax paid on declared earnings but also have an envelope that is always pretty full.
The system needs simplified and enforced.
Grant Shapps warning about a Labour 'supermajority'
Well of course he is, he's going to lose his seat along with scores of other Tory MPs who perhaps ought to have ganged up against the far right if they wanted their party to survive. Idiots. Good to their hubris wrecking the party.
Ed Davey is really living his best life - he's going to be exhausted by the time this campaign ends - maybe with a broken bone or two as a souvenir.
It’s insane that we’re taxed substantially far more for working than others are for sitting on their arses and just accumulating wealth simply because they have capital, so own (valuable) stuff
couldn’t agree more. I don’t object to paying more tax. I object to paying more than my fair share. And what I mean by that is people far richer and with far more assets than me pay proportionally far less. If more tax needs raised, by all means tax folks on 50k more, so long as those with huge nest eggs and assets tucked away are also paying accordingly
And if I’m paying more, I expect to see more. Better services, an nhs that isn’t on its knees. I truely resent the thought my hard earned is, rather than being used for bettering society, finding its way into already rich peoples pockets.
Grant Shapps says a super-majority would be bad for accountability.
This from a man who ran three aliases to conduct his fraudulent business, threatened to sue on of his own constituents for revealing those aliases, then (when his bluff was called) backed down saying he had "over-firmly denied" using those aliases.
Accountability.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Can you afford Sky telly? I think that’s the benchmark today
There was a time when the bourgeoisie considered having Sky TV or a large television terribly déclassé. I think that attitude ended at about the time The Sopanos came out, maybe a little after that.
There was a time when the bourgeoisie considered having Sky TV or a large television terribly déclassé.
Yes, who wants one of those ghastly dishes defacing the facade of their lovely Georgian townhouse?
Well I know it's been suggested before but I'm in favour of a single much higher tax figure along with a much much higher tax threshold.
how long before Lil' Ol' Rishi, looking at fun loving Ed, thinks yeah I can do that and jumps out of a plane without a parachute! 😕
We’re very good at taxing productivity and very bad at taxing rent-seeking and other asset-based wealth leveraging. It’s no wonder we have a productivity crisis and a housing market that consumes our earnings disproportionately.
Can we have Ed Davey pictured riding a mountain bike please?
Even better get him an instructor for a couple of hours to teach him to jump first.
There was a time when the bourgeoisie considered having Sky TV or a large television terribly déclassé. I think that attitude ended at about the time The Sopanos came out, maybe a little after that.
And that makes me sad. I also pine for the days when having an ageing Volvo estate with moss round the windows and tartan rugs in the back was a signifier of proper breeding too.
https://twitter.com/WeAreCyclingUK/status/1800540891175882993?t=wwcG3jGA-yhqgXfzZxLOFA&s=19
(2) In a diversion from the government’s 2020 Cycling and walking Investment Strategy (CWIS), the Conservatives are de-prioritising active travel and pushing for a new ‘Backing Drivers Bill'.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
I've always been amused by what different people have in mind when wanting to tax "rich" people.
A lot of people seem to consider it to mean anyone whose yearly income is more than a couple of their own monthly paychecks, or whose lifestyle they can relate to but see that it's a bit better than their own. So you have even 27k salaries and 7 year old Golfs being viewed as rich by some.
Grant Shapps says a super-majority would be bad for accountability.
Geoffrey Cox has just said ‘the country is sleep-walking into a one party socialist state’ 😂😂
Sounds good, presumably he is not talking about Starmers Labour party though.
you have even 27k salaries and 7 year old Golfs being viewed as rich by some.
So it shouldn't be government's role to politicise and weaponise the fact that wealth is naturally relative. Big state making things "fairer" by raising taxes does the opposite. I remember being homeless, with no transport and holes in my trainers and at no point did I think the situation would be improved if only some people were taxed more.
There was a time when the bourgeoisie considered having Sky TV or a large television terribly déclassé. I think that attitude ended at about the time The Sopanos came out, maybe a little after that.
Exactly. A couple of pages back you have someone calling free channels "Council TV" - which is the exact opposite of the meaning of that delightfully snobby phrase (eg. see todays Guardian). As a public school boy I can guarantee having Sky would not have been not aspirational to Rishi, it would have been an insult. I would say that's why he chose it as an example - in his mind it would demonstrate he's down with the common man.
I remember being homeless, with no transport and holes in my trainers and at no point did I think the situation would be improved if only some people were taxed more.
That is down to what is done with money rather that tax.
It's ironic that Europe is increasingly voting to the Right, but as the Tories are being punished for not actually being right wing, Britain will lurch in the opposite direction as the only alternative option are Reform who are too new to get a foothold in parliament
They do a good job of minimizing tax paid on declared earnings but also have an envelope that is always pretty full.
HMRC have a service you can call to get it looked at.
A lot of people seem to consider it to mean anyone whose yearly income is higher than theirs by more than a couple of their own monthly paychecks
Added bold bit for clarification. But I think people above knew what I meant.
Reform who are too new to get a foothold in parliament
Do you mean that their name is too new?
Next month will mark Nigel Farage's eighth attempt to get into parliament.
That obviously covers a good few years. Nigel Farage has been around a very long time, everyone has known about him and his constantly renamed parties for a very long time.
Yeah, that’s definitely what they’re being punished for alright.
Look how support for the Tories collapsed and never really recovered after Liz Truss's mini budget.
I am sure that grimep considers that Liz Truss wasn't right-wing enough.
