Dude cracks me up. Didn’t have Sky. Is that cos you were poor or because your diligent parents thought you’d be fine with council telly, Radio Times and a stack of books?
one term at Winchester = Sky telly for everyone in the town..
people on 50k are wealthy and must pay more tax and NI which is fairer because working hard and earning honest money must be punished…
Earning over £50k puts you in the top 15% so, yes well off. Also paying tax isn't a punishment, it's how society works.
Big fan of what I've seen of the Green party manifesto. Wealth tax on sums over 10m is a fantastic idea. Good to see an arguement for more progressive taxation too.
As for Sunak and his lack of Sky TV.....he just doesn't get it does he? Totally incapable of trying to understand what actual hardship, which many millions face perpetually, is like. He's not even being a dick about it, he is just so far detached from reality. This of course means that he has no business whatsoever running the country and needs to just **** right off asap.
Good to see an arguement for more progressive taxation too.
But also an increase in NI, which is being used here and has been used in the past to hide an increase in the marginal tax rate.
IMO, in the name of tax transparency, they need to do away with employee NICs, and adjust the income tax and CGT bands to compensate - problem with NI remains that it’s not payable on non-work income.
Big fan of what I’ve seen of the Green party manifesto. Wealth tax on sums over 10m is a fantastic idea. Good to see an arguement for more progressive taxation too.
Yep, they are actually what the Labour Party should be. I will be giving them my vote again which will add to the 3,000 they are predicted to get versus the 40,000 tory votes. Almost like I am wasting my time isn't it.
because working hard and earning honest money must be punished
You call it punishment, but you could call it sharing your good fortune and doing your bit to help the country. Interesting which one you chose.
Nice kick on the balls for Sunak this morning re Economic growth… or lack of.
But it’s not the governments fault! So it isn’t fair to blame Rishi. Apparently it’s all because of the weather.
The sky TV stuff is incredibly tin eared, but this is the worst bit by far...
https://twitter.com/gabbsthenewt/status/1800776344852410589?t=9FLDaydqPMg55xs-r1Vhew&s=19
Jaw dropping to be honest
jesus wept, he really didn't realise and had no comprehension of the shit storm coming his way !!!! what a clueless shit of a man.
The Communists, er Greens sorry, have let it be known that people on 50k are wealthy and must pay more tax and NI which is fairer because working hard and earning honest money must be punished…
As someone who benefited from both my own and my parents free university educations in a society with sensible safety nets for those not as lucky as me, and now earns well north of £50k (as does my wife) I support their view and I can afford it. Except I’d call it paying my dues, not punishment.
Poor trolling.
As an aside, free university education (according to ability to learn not ability to pay), with entry at different ages by different routes, backed up by solid vocational education and training probably benefits society and the country as much as the individuals involved. And on that basis the country should pay, which in turn means tax, which to be fair means progressive tax.
Am I right in thinking social mobility, while never perfect, has never been as high as it was in the 1960s - arguably the heyday of that educational model?
The sky TV stuff is incredibly tin eared, but this is the worst bit by far
Wow! Tells you everything you need to know about the man in 30 seconds.
My children have something in common with the PM. Not for reasons of cost either. Looks like his parents had good taste in media selection. A better answer from someone with professional parents is “nothing really, and. I thank my parents for that”. #manofthepeople.
The Communists, er Greens sorry, have let it be known that people on 50k are wealthy and must pay more tax and NI which is fairer because working hard and earning honest money must be punished…
I earn over £50k (just)
I don't work harder than a lot of people, I just have skills that can be better leveraged into making money in a capitalist system. Sometimes the economic cycle means I can't and I have to go find a different way to make money and I've been lucky to work my way into other well paying jobs which did involve longer hours and more niche skills (although arguably easier work overall because it involved a lot of sitting around waiting).
Poor trolling, go read chapter 1 of Capital by Marx and come back with a more rounded understanding of why the effort you put into work is not the defining factor in how much you get paid in return.
Count Binface is, I believe, standing directly against Sunak in his constituency. Given his (Binface's) recent strong finish ahead of the far right in the London election and his similarly strong ties to the constituency, I expect a close race.
Am I right in thinking social mobility, while never perfect, has never been as high as it was in the 1960s
Probably. For those that had a good day when they sat their 11+. Not for the others.
I was the last year to sit 11+ in my town and go to a grammar school. My sister in the year below me, went to the subsequently merged comprehensive. She’d never have become a deputy head teacher had she been born in my year.
"Earning over £50k puts you in the top 15% so, yes well off."
Try supporting a family and paying a mortgage on 50k, trust me you won't feel "well off".
So why does working harder to earn a pittance salary like 50k mean the government should take more of your money? That isn't "fair". That is socialist thinking.
This is and always has been one of the main dividing lines between the political left and the right.
You may not feel well off but you are better off than the other 85%.
How do you think taxation should work and what should the government be providing for the 85%?
@grimep - I suggest you check average household income if you think £50k is a pittance.
Probably. For those that had a good day when they sat their 11+. Not for the others.
Agreed - which is why multiple routes and multiple ages for entry is a necessity.
But, yes, agreed.
The electoral calculus website is showing Labour 472, I'm sure that's down from 485 about 10 days ago. Tories up from about low 60s to 76 and iirc lib up one to 60. My first reaction was 'No!!!!!' Then i remembered that's still a 300 seat majority. Panic over. 🤣
To be slightly more serious, I guess the numbers on that website are wildly different to most polls, I'm not sure why it comes up so high on Google searches.
I had been very bouyed by the apparently very real prospect of the tories being pushed down to 3rd and not the official opposition, but that seems a little less likely this week.
The wrong premise is being discussed here, politicians talk about cutting or freezing taxes whereas the issue should be fighting for higher incomes. A functioning welfare state needs paying for and some of the highest taxed economies have the highest standards of living eg Denmark, Finland. Moaning about £50k being inadequate for a mortgage is because the housing system has been adjusted to benefit developers and landlords, neither major party is addressing that issue.
https://Twitter.com/parody_pm/status/1800779190066876630?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
Man of the people Rishi .
They’re interviewing a load of 16-18 year olds about politics on Five Live. One of them just said “we don’t have Sky TV. I cry myself to sleep every night” 😂
the housing system has been adjusted to benefit developers and landlords, neither major party is addressing that issue.
There are a few things that can be done though - IMO they should move to a property tax for business premises, which would include rental properties.
I think the LDs have committed to ‘use it or lose it’ planning permission to stop land banking (which is a problem), and Lab have said they’re going to look at increasing density (which is also something we need to do).
I don’t know what the score is with Right to Buy but that definitely needs reform.
I had been very bouyed by the apparently very real prospect of the tories being pushed down to 3rd and not the official opposition, but that seems a little less likely this week.
as much as Id love to see it, it was always very unlikely, its still a possibility though
there does seem to be a small drop in the labour numbers 1-2% thsi past week, which is not unexpected from such a big gap , I wonder if a Labour win being baked in, is tempting people to lend their votes to LDs & Green?
heres that video if I can get it to embed
https://twitter.com/gabbsthenewt/status/1800776344852410589
“Earning over £50k puts you in the top 15% so, yes well off.”
Try supporting a family and paying a mortgage on 50k, trust me you won’t feel “well off”.
So why does working harder to earn a pittance salary like 50k mean the government should take more of your money? That isn’t “fair”. That is socialist thinking.
You're literally saying yourself that 85% of the country have to do the same thing on less than what you consider a "pittance"
I honestly can't tell if you're invoking Poe's law at this point.
I fail to understand that TiRed; why wouldn't you sister have become deputy head if she'd sat the 11+ ?
I wouldn't (couldn't) have done any better in terms of exam results in a grammar school than in the secondary modern, the difference is perhaps in the attitude the secondary mod left me with - ingnoring my sprinting ability and self-defence skills.
Grant Shapps what's £25,000 between friends 😕
Try supporting a family and paying a mortgage on 50k, trust me you won’t feel “well off”.
So why does working harder to earn a pittance salary like 50k mean the government should take more of your money? That isn’t “fair”. That is socialist thinking.
Maybe the wee extra all the people on 50k and up will pay will allow for better schools, dentists for your kids, funding of council facilities you and your kids will use, better transport and then your pittance of £50k might actually go a bit further in reality.
Moaning about £50k being inadequate for a mortgage is because the housing system has been adjusted to benefit developers and landlords, neither major party is addressing that issue.
Labour have at least said a bit more than the Tories on this subject, and their manifesto isn't out till tomorrow. It's still weak on the details, but they're talking about the how and not just the why; new towns, increased social housing, reforming planning laws, helping with getting mortgages etc...
A reminder that if you're lucky enough to be on £50K [ more than twice what I'm on, and four times what my other half is on ] the Tories have raised your taxes by stealth... and whoever wins the next election, even the Tories, you're going to be expected to pay more in a way the majority earning less than you are not.
Most working people in the UK earn less than £36k. Any increase in taxes needs to fall on those earning more than that, for the reasons you state (try paying your mortgage/rent and bringing up kids on the kind of income most people have). Or raised by changes to taxes paid by people doing well but not working, eg GCT changes and closing down the use of schemes used to minimise income and wealth that are not wages.
To be slightly more serious, I guess the numbers on that website are wildly different to most polls, I’m not sure why it comes up so high on Google searches.
Not sure about the Google question, but another polling expert was asked what's going on with electoral calculus stuff and his theory was that their model is not paying enough attention to the don't knows. Based on historical voting data, other polls attempt to convert don't knows to either not voting or voting for someone.
You may not feel well off but you are better off than the other 85%.
Every single time this comes up on here, everyone completely ignores other factors. A young professional couple on £50k EACH are much better off than a single parent with three young kids on £50k on their own in the South East.
So basically Sunak had a deprived childhood because he couldn't watch The Simpsons?
Ok.
I'm looking forward to this interview tonight, the Tories know it's going to look bad. I'm excited.
How old is he again? I watched it on Channel4.
kelvin
Full Member
How old is he again? I watched it on Channel4.
Older than he dresses. 😉
Surely it'd then also depend on where the young professional couple were? If they were also in the 'South East', say in Canary Wharf, then maybe not?
As Kelvin says, 50k is well above average/median income. Yes you might be feeling the squeeze.....have a think how it feels if you're earning less 50k. Its more than I've ever earned in 2 years, let alone 1! Good fortune means that in the last couple of years, this isn't something that I've needed to worry about.
Only a socialist mindset could think that it is fair that someone who has worked their way up to a tragic wage of 50k, which equates to £700 something a week take home pay, barely enough to pay the monthly bills, feed and clothe the kids and dog and keep of roof over their heads, should have a greater proportion of their pay removed by the state than someone earning 49,999 and below.
I think most people these days think it is fair that the money that the higher paid get to "keep" is greater than the money those lower paid get to "keep". An old fashioned socialist would balk at that. You're looking at the wrong side of the equation. The better paid will remain better off... under Conservative, Labour, LibDem ... or indeed Green(E&W) proposals.
Of course, the tax rate for someone earning £50001 is going to be almost the same as that for the person on £49999, with just £1 charged at the higher rate.
Can you afford Sky telly? I think that’s the benchmark today
While I think those that can afford to pay more tax should pay now tax the current tax system with vat, income tax, ni and more, and multiple boundaries with different rates, is overly complicated and with too many people in strange or unfair nominal tax positions. I'd like to see serious reform looked into, not just tinker with a few bands or rates.
As someone who earns over 50 k I wouldn’t consider myself well off tbh. I use to think I was. My mortgage has gone through the roof, as have my bills. After all my monthly direct debits have gone out, and I’ve paid for food, I have around 70 quid a week for ‘luxury’s’. I save nothing. My savings have disappeared over last 2 years. This is not to say I’m not far better off than many. I genuinely don’t know how I’d survive on £30k without downsizing my house or remortgaging (and I live in one of the cheapest parts of the country)
if they raise tax then fair enough, but its not justified imo until they go after all the tax dodgers, folks who have wealth without earning it (ie inherited), fat cats, and companies and corporations that make huge profits for shareholders at the expense of the rest of society
more than twice what I’m on, and four times what my other half is on
if she’s working full time and on 12.5 k she’s getting paid well under minimum wage
She's not full time, she can't be. I'm not going into that though. Wish I hadn't mentioned it. Lots of people in that situation.
kelvin
Full Member
She’s not full time, she can’t be. I’m not going into that though. Wish I hadn’t mentioned it. Lots of people in that situation.
Lifes complex, you don't owe us an explanation my friend. 👍
greyspokeFree Member
Of course, the tax rate for someone earning £50001 is going to be almost the same as that for the person on £49999, with just £1 charged at the higher rate.
I think grimep is fundamentally misunderstanding how taxation works
As someone lucky enough to be on a salary not much over 50k, with my wife earning considerably less and doing 95% of childcare with 4 kids and living in the SE...... I can confirm that its not easy, but I want a decent healthcare system and services that work for everyone so yeah paying tax is something Im willing to do.
and for 'roughing it' kudos we dont even have Netflix !!!!!!!!
