@susepic from Friday- apologies for not responding before now; it was nothing other than my personal view that a 'seven way debate' would turn into a shouting match.
Anything which allows for an meaningful interrogation of policies being promoted by any political party is to be welcomed.
If any of the debates produce more light than heat, that's to be applauded.
I continue to leaflet and canvas; the countdown is on.
If any of you are not involved, please do get involved with your party of choice; mine is Labour so...donate, promote labour n your socials, deliver leaflets, talk to people on the doorstep.
There are loads of online resources available; if that's too much of a faff, contact your local campaign team who will welcome you.
Pleae don't do nothing; be active.
Ok but is it out of context?
Yes, very much so, there is a very good reason that clip wasn't all over the news at the time and only occasionally appears online.
In that video of Starmer, context is absolutely everything here, full clip:
If anyone watches that from the start and then, genuinely, thinks Starmer is trying to belittle the kid or her parents then I'd be very surprised.
It's a short clip from a longer discussion and rather than belittling the kid's concerns he's actually trying to bring her into the conversation he's discussing with the parents/ adults.
Pleae don’t do nothing; be active.
What metrics have you got that what you are doing is working against any larger things going on that sway voters (social and traditional media, TV coverage) and even smaller things (talking to friends).
How many people do you leave the door of with them categorically stating they are now voting Labour instead of xxxxx because you have convinced them?
How many people do you leave the door of with them categorically stating they are now voting Labour instead of xxxxx because you have convinced them?
In our local mayoral election a huge amount of people round our way voted for the Tory because he was the only candidate who visited the villages here, put up social media clips of it, had a team door knocking, had a team responding to questions on the social media.
Literally the only candidate who made an effort to attract our votes. Didn't even know the name of the other candidates.
Perception is everything. He still lost overall.
Ok but is it out of context?
It's difficult to say given the commentator 'Eyup Lovely' (never their real persona is it? 'Verified new left journalist, joined April 24') has snipped about 1/20th of the interview but as Poopscoop has noted, when in context of the whole discussion, and from a year ago, it's quite different
Afterall Sunaks defence about the d-day screwup was that it wasnt due to the itv interview he left early to attend but rather it was several months in advance he couldnt be bothered.
The commentator, and on here, aren't trying to compare the clip to Sunak leaving D-Day early. "Keir Starmer taking his lead from Sunak’s interaction whilst out campaigning when he was questioned by doctor a few days ago"
Starmer haters gonna hate which is fine, but don't spread misinformation.
@kerley I don’t even think it’s as much as convincing people. The Tories’ ground game is notoriously bad even before they pissed off all their potential canvassers, and in a lot of places (like here, I think) a leaflet and someone knocking on the door is more engagement that people have had in years. The first step is convincing potentially voters that someone might be listening to them.
@morecashthandash I’m not saying it’s 100% reliable (and people will still vote based on other factors) but I suspect he did better than he would have done without door knocking, especially of other parties weren’t bothering.
@morecashthandash I’m not saying it’s 100% reliable (and people will still vote based on other factors) but I suspect he did better than he would have done without door knocking, especially of other parties weren’t bothering.
Oh yes, I was trying to support the use of door knocking, apologies if it didn't come across. It's Monday.
Looking at the damage they’ve done, it represents value-for-money Putin could barely have dreamt of
Absolutely . Who needs next generation fighter aircraft when you can easily meddle in the internal politics of the west - whatever that means?
A few years ago I saw a report on Syria that postulated at the end "we still don't know what Russia wants in Syria". I thought at the time it was an odd thing to say. It revealed a bias towards the west, quite reasonably, wanting an end to the conflict and some kind of resolution. But it completely misunderstood Putin. He's all about constant destabilisation that allows nationalist-populists to sow fear in western Europe.
Putin got (and continues to get) exactly what he wants out of Syria - a constant flow of Muslim, brown-skinned refugees into western Europe where they can then be pointed at by the far right as an easy target and used to sow fear.
The UK has proven to be incredibly good value for money for him.
Do we think Sunak will surface today?
Or will he now be kept hidden away apart from very select, stage managed events?
Also bonkers that both Tory party chairman & Scots Tory leaders can't do interviews because of their banana republic style seat selections
Putin got (and continues to get) exactly what he wants out of Syria – a constant flow of Muslim, brown-skinned refugees into western Europe where they can then be pointed at by the far right as an easy target and used to sow fear.
Well an interesting theory - Putin is deliberately forcing brown skinned into western Europe to do a favour to the far right. It's not one that I have heard before.
Syrians aren't very brown though and why doesn't he care about eastern Europe?
Russia’s use of borders in Eastern Europe to stoke social and political unrest around immigration issues are well documented.
I think it’s more realistic that Putin is just funding (directly or indirectly) disruptive politicians across democratic countries (currently this is the far right, but if the right we’re in power it would be the far left I think) and also funding bot farms to flood social media with disruptive messaging.
The Syria theory is a bit far fetched.
Russia’s use of borders in Eastern Europe to stoke social and political unrest around immigration issues are well documented.
Ah, so he does care about eastern Europe!
a constant flow of Muslim, brown-skinned refugees into western Europe
As theories go, it's a erm..wild one. Given that Russia's long standing, very successful - and cheap use of bot farms to stoke the culture war on line and beyond, that has worked probably beyond their wildest hopes, the use of the City to launder cash, their stock piles of cheap gas, to bribe German industry and politicians, and up until very recently an open door to Boris Johnson's house, it seems a bit far fetched to me at least that they'd go to that sort of lengths when they have cheaper and more successful models to choose from.
Brown enough, though.
Yeah but if the reason that the Russians are Syria is to force brown people into western Europe, as you claim, surely they could have found a country with browner people?
Btw your claim that the UK has proven to be incredibly good value for money for Putin is quite insulting to Keir Starmer. Was keeping Corbyn out of Number 10 also part of Putin's plan?
As theories go, it’s a erm..wild one. Given that Russia’s long standing, very successful – and cheap use of bot farms to stoke the culture war on line and beyond, that has worked probably beyond their wildest hopes, the use of the City to launder cash, their stock piles of cheap gas, to bribe German industry and politicians, and up until very recently an open door to Boris Johnson’s house, it seems a bit far fetched to me at least that they’d go to that sort of lengths when they have cheaper and more successful models to choose from.
It is the single biggest issue behind the growth of the AfD in the 2010s/2020s - that is a view I share with the majority of political analysts as far as I know.
I saw that Ursula von der Leyen made yesterday what amounted to a victory speech in English. From rostrum the she individually thanked colleagues in English.
It seemed rather bizarre considering that no EU member state has English as its official language.
that is a view I share with the majority of political analysts as far as I know.
It's the first time I've heard that theory. Have you got a link to a political analyst who claims that Russians are in Syria because Putin wants to help the far right in western Europe?
It seemed rather bizarre considering that no EU member state has English as its official language.
That’s not correct. Ireland has two official languages; Irish and English
Interesting convergence of political commentary, both stating that a post election move further to the right would be a bad thing for the tories
torygrapy non-paywal: https://archive.is/TmqI6
Douglas Ross has announced he will resign as leader of the Scottish Conservatives
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceddenl8xz4o
I'm not sure anyone will notice to be honest
The use of migrants at the Russian and Belarusian borders to promote instability has been commented on in the media for a couple of years now.
It would certainly suit Moscow to continue to the flow of migrants to Europe to stoke tensions, though I suspect Putins main reason in Syria is to keep his Med port open.
Anyway, the UK election....
Interesting convergence of political commentary, both stating that a post election move further to the right would be a bad thing for the tories
Both really interesting articles - I thought the Guardian article nicely made the point that not all small "c" conservatives are racist, Brexit voting loons as we sometimes tend to assume.
a post election move further to the right would be a bad thing for the tories
Its the Tories themselves failing to grasp the 'Shy Tory' syndrome.
In the past the Tories could appear incredibly unpopular and still win elections and that was simply becuase a lot of tories voters don't really make a lot of noise about themselves being tory voters. The don't voice their satisfaction when the party tries to court them so the popularity of policies don't really become evident until poling day. I always used to find it odd back in the 90s that there must be conservative voters all around me and I had no idea who any of them were. Genuinely the first conversation I was a part of where someone spoke supportively of the conservatives (who were in the electoral doldrums at the time) - was in the mid noughties, on this forum. (come back CFH!)
In recent years, when challenged from the right by UKIP / Reform, the party has had to try and court the right wing, and what its found is - those kinds of Tories - they're not shy. They make lots of noise - they voice approval of dog whistles and cruelty-driven policies, they voice discontent and any given immigration or Brexit policy 'not being enough', all the time threatening to leave and take their vote with them. And that becomes addictive. Pandering to those elements in the media and online creates lots of engagement and feedback from a noisy, but actually pretty small, portion of the electorate. But it's immediate, visceral reward. Meanwhile the rest of their voter base has been taken for granted - if they're silent why do you need to say anything to them?
But while shy tories have been shy of voicing their support of the party in the past, they're now just as quiet in voicing their disapproval. They find the cruelty that underlines the party's overtures to the right wing repellant but don't engage in the debate. They've quietly watched their party being hijacked. Voters are leaving in droves for Labour, the Liberals or anyone else, but they're just going, they're not saying that they are going, or saying why they are going, or saying what the party would have to do to persuade them to stay.
And the numbers show that - and what do the party do? Make more appeals to the right and get a liltle self congratulatory endorphin hit as the socials light up and think 'yeah we owned the libs'.
the GB news bubble, they equate the politics of their viewers as the politics of the whole country.
On Douglas Ross...
Alba leader Alex Salmond said it was the "first case of a rat deserting a sinking ship while simultaneously trying to clamber aboard a gravy train".
😂😂😂
the GB news bubble, they equate the politics of their viewers as the politics of the whole country.
Except.... when they poll their viewers they find out most of them are going to vote labour 🙂
The bubble is pretty much the channel's funders and its presenters
wasn't it behind a paywall but someone created a work around and they got remorselessly trolled or has there been others since.
wasn’t it behind a paywall but someone created a work around and they got remorselessly trolled or has there been others since.
I think that was their Brexit poll
Good LibDem manifesto launch. 👍
I'll be voting Labour by choice and it fits the tactical vote here too but id be happy to vote Lib Dem if I lived in a blue wall area.
.
Sunak on the BBC answering questions in a deserted pub.
He looks tired and deflated.
What he's saying is just the normal shite though.
Some amazing work on TikTok from Labour and the Lib Dems. Ed Davies is rating dogs on the campaign trail, and Labour are trolling the Tories with Sylvanian families.
Labour are trolling the Tories with Sylvanian families
Bloody Sylvanians, coming over here, lampooning our politicians...
Neil – the better reference is ‘Tricky Dicky’ by Ian Dury…
Erm...
Ross is parachuted into a reasonably safe Westminster seat. Mind, his first instinct was to be MP, MSP and ScotTory party leader but as he can't keep his expenses paperwork straight I think he'd struggle to do 3 jobs.
Bloody Sylvanians, coming over here, lampooning our politicians…
I think it's the Labour party in Ireland that have been using Sylvanian families.
