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Really? You lot (and by that I mean our resident socialist revolutionaries) moan about voter apathy and then you mock the people who are getting off their arses and actually trying to do something about it?
Don't see anyone mocking you. I think you're doing most of the mocking on this thread all by yourself.
Apart from unseating a Tory, what are you actually trying to achieve with your leafleting (with short breaks to berate those who don't feel enthusiastic enough about any party to actively support them)?
It seems like the beginning and end of your ambition is to get rid of a Tory. So what if you do? He'll be back with a couple a few hundred mates in 5 years time (or, even better, his Reform cousin) because Labour will have done nothing to change the system that is causing large scale voter apathy.
It's not that you are doing nothing. It's that you are actively supporting a party that is not going to change anything and that is what is going to lead to a right wing turbo-nutter government in 5 years time.
So, once again, absolutely fine if you want to drop leaflets but for the love of god get off your high horse.
It’s that you are actively supporting a party that is not going to change anything
Fight the battles you can win.
It’s that you are actively supporting a party that is not going to change anything
Irony overload.
@kerley
I do appreciate what you have said in this thread, you want "better" as do we all.
We all have a wish list for government policy, every single person in this thread. However, the reality is we have one of two choices here.
1) 5 more years of Tory, minimum.
2) A Labour government.
It's one of those two choices, everything else is pie in the sky at this point. That might change in future elections but not this one.
Can you honestly say you'd prefer to wake up to a Tory victory on the 5th July? It's a yes or no situation.
It’s that you are actively supporting a party that is not going to change anything and that is what is going to lead to a right wing turbo-nutter government in 5 years time.
Other opinions are avilable
Is he an advert for Labour in any way? Or just someone (one of many) that's had enough of our government, the utterly shit MP he has, and is accepting of the fact that they only get into power because of those who do not vote to stop the Tories, not just those that actively enable them with their votes.
Other opinions are avilable
Feel free to make them public.
Or do you feel safer communicating by the medium of memes mocking those who don't agree with you?
Let’s come back in 5 years time and see how it has panned out. You like a bet don’t you, come up with some meaningful differences that the Labour will make in 5 years and I will be up for that.
Now imagine 5 more years of the Tories, worse or better than at present?
That's what you should be comparing to.
Maybe heed your own advice and knock it back a bit?
Yeah, I'm being a dick but sometimes that's what happens when someone decides they want to push their weight around a bit too much.
Anyway, I'm not trying to get anyone to vote for anyone.
I think people should express their opinion by voting for the party that most closely aligns with their values regardless of outcomes but since that's something that can't really be measured in any kind of 'win' I guess I'm not as invested in others who have a 'team' they are playing for.
I suppose I could vote Green. What are you going to do about it?
I'm a member of the political party I support. If I wanted to, I could be much more involved locally and try to influence the party's policies from within. It might not have much impact, but at least I'd be trying.
Or I could just whine on a niche internet forum.
I guess I’m not as invested in others who have a ‘team’ they are playing for.
It's not that - it's a calculated vote based on the system. We can only play the hand we're dealt. I would encourage everyone in my constituency to vote Labour, but they aren't my favourite party here.
It’s not that – it’s a calculated vote based on the system. We can only play the hand we’re dealt. I would encourage everyone in my constituency to vote Labour, but they aren’t my favourite party here.
Unfortunately UKIP voters didn't heed your advice prior to 2016.
I guess I’m not as invested in others who have a ‘team’ they are playing for.
That's what we've got. You may wish for it to be different, but right now, that's what we're offered. There's no point in being idealistic about your vote, because: Maths. Get on the bus that's going in your direction as some-one said further up-thread. The need to compromise, the curse of democracy
The need to compromise, the curse of democracy
Again, UKIP voters never compromised. They never won a single seat and yet the government is now UKIP in all but name.
Reform voters are not going to compromise either and Labour will spend 5 years chasing their votes and then, we finally get PM Farage because all the 'smart' people vote tactically instead of for what they agree with.
This is one of those cases where the 'smart' people are, in real terms, getting beaten by the 'stupid' people because the 'smart' people are thinking in terms of winning and losing elections.
You can win a battle and lose the war.
The right are facing what the rest of us have had for decades... a split vote that could keep their politicians out of power for 15 or more years... let's learn to play the FPTP system against them and kick and keep the ****ers out. Ideally for me towards the end of that period we should build a consensus for a more proportional voting system for the UK as whole (as well as at other levels) and marginalise them for further decades.
Haven't we done everything on this page multiple times and it goes nowhere - vote for the party in your constituency that will GTTO - that's all the matters this time.......
And once Labour are in government we'll have to push them to take a look at this - cos otherwise their numbers won't make any sense. I know the consensus is it won't happen - but I'd like to think it'll become an issue much quicker than we believe
The right are facing what the rest of us have had for decades… a split vote that could keep them out of power for 15 or more years… let’s learn and kick and keep the **** out.
I hope you're right about that but I don't think you are.
I think this is the election where any remnants of One Nation Tories are finally buried. A Tory/Reform pact (assuming they haven't merged) at the next election with an electorate fed up of no change under Labour (who have been running scared of Reform the whole time) will run the board.
And with no mechanism's to put a limit on what they can do who knows what can happen. This Tory government killed the last vestiges of the 'good chap' principle of government.
I really hope I'm wrong.
I really hope I’m wrong.
I don't think your fears are unfounded at all. But I also don't see how more Tory MPs rather than fewer helps us avoid that risk.
PSA the New Eeuropean has a Tory MP portillo moment bingo poster this week
Goodness me I hope the polls are underestimating the Tory wipeout
Goodness me I hope the polls are underestimating the Tory wipeout
In related news, the odds are shifting slightly after a several days of very little movement.
0-49 - shortening
50-99 - shortening
100-149 - lengthening
150+ Who cares.
I don't think Labour will end up chasing Reform voters.
They've not engaged with them on things they'll lose with them like immigration they're being much more measured and grown up about it
I don’t think Labour will end up chasing Reform voters.
They’ve not engaged with them on things they’ll lose with them like immigration they’re being much more measured and grown up about it
Pretty sure people said the same thing about Macron and Le Pen.
He still got dragged towards FN policies and voters still went with FN in the end. I really hope Labour have learned from this but the campaign is not really showing me that they have.
Anyone you know doesn't have PhotoID has until 5PM today to apply for a Voter Authority Certificate - Pass it on....
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate
Labour and Brexit - more discussion:
There are two ways of looking at this: A labour government any labour government is better than the tories or Starmers labour is so unambitious and has hamstrung its self over brexit and continuing austerity that Labour will be unable to actually improve things much. The ruling out of the end of the two child benefit cap is a real example here. Categorically ruled out by Starmer but in Scotland it is no more.
Brexit of course is the real issue and why I do not want to vote for Labour - a fundamentally dishonest position ( " no economic case to rejoin|") and one that means labour will preside over continuing decline - and also labours position goes strongly against public opinion
Again, UKIP voters never compromised. They never won a single seat and yet the government is now UKIP in all but name.
I know where you're coming from and to an extent I agree. But UKIP had the luxury of time as well, they could play a long game and chip away while still being relatively safe you would still have tories returned - even to the point of not contesting in some areas. Maybe when it was clear that the country was going to return further tory goverments in 2015, 2019 etc. then was the time to really put the pressure on to changing the discussion on the left, although the Corbyn experiment sort of showed the country wasn't ready for it (although, would Corbyn's policies in a nicer outfit have been more palatable)
Will that happen this time. Hoping the labour party win, and then that they do well enough to get second terms and even a third, then that's the time for the progressive LW policies to put pressure on. But demanding them right here and now while trying to win against the tories this time - that's like being on the phone to the fire suppression engineer planning a system for your rebuilt house when really you should be on the phone to the fire brigade because your existing one's on fire and you're still in the upstairs bedroom.
We seem to have forgotten about inequality, housing, jobs, climate and infrastructure.
Well, you might have but both the Labour and Lib manifestos haven't and since both plan to actually be in power (either nationally or regionally), I'd be willing to give them so credit for it.
Again, you think you are doing something about inequality, housing, jobs and infrastructure but how exactly given that presumably your goal is to get a Labour party to replace the Tory party who are about as ambitious as the tories are just not as morally void. Kool aid anybody.
As someone who took part in the focus groups for some of these issues on behalf of the LD and Lab, there may be more people "doing something" than you think. Just because you can't be bothered to get involved doesn't mean everyone is like you.
The Conservatives have been almost incapable of governing for the last 5 years, the pandemic, their response to it, their constant infighting and public failings have meant that they've been almost continually firefighting for years. Nothing has been done. That this period will be done with alone will be a boon to this country.
What's wrong with Labour being ambitious?
BruceWee
Pretty sure people said the same thing about Macron and Le Pen.
It's a bloody risky strategy but Macron has offered the far right a poisoned chalice, "ok, if the people decide you can do a better job, prove it".
Craving power and using divisive politics is one thing, being potentially given the power to enact those batshit policies is another.
Worst case the French populous give them enough rope to hang themselves and suffer a few years of pain but at least the lie is exposed.
The parallels with Farage/Reform are hard to ignore.
Well, you might have but both the Labour and Lib manifestos haven’t
Really? Hopeful words mean nothing. No raising taxes means no significant extra spending, Starmer has already ruled out ending the 2 child benefit cap, no rejo9in the EU means low growth - so where is the spending needed coming from?
I do appreciate what you have said in this thread, you want “better” as do we all.
Can you honestly say you’d prefer to wake up to a Tory victory on the 5th July? It’s a yes or no situation.
No, I definitely don't want to wake up to a Tory victory (I have hated the tories since I was 11 years old when Thatcher got in) but that doesn't mean I think Labour will be massively different. I want a lot better than that which is why I am saying so. It is short sighted to think they are the solution, all they will provide is a slightly nicer political environment for 5 years, look at US to see what can likely happen after 5 years
The only decision for me is who will get closest to the Tory as all the vote tories out type sites don't draw any conclusions between Labour and Lib Dem so a toss up and there's there thing, if I was do "do something" as others feel they are doing I could just as easily sway votes in the wrong way between Labour and Lib Dems.
So I could vote Green as there are closest to what I believe in and get them up to 7%...
Reform voters are not going to compromise either and Labour will spend 5 years chasing their votes
If labour gets a good majority on the back their current "policies" why would they chase more votes by going further right. They just have to deliver on big policies then hopefully show some humanity.
It’s a bloody risky strategy but Macron has offered the far right a poisoned chalice, “ok, if the people decide you can do a better job, prove it”.
I agree.
The problem in the UK is FPTP. A minority of the population can cause a massive majority. I don't trust 30% of people not to vote these scum bags in.
In addition, the UK doesn't have the checks on power most other countries have. As I said, it has always relied on the 'good chap' principle.
France can gamble with giving the FN power (or the option form a government, not that they would want it https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/19/frances-far-right-leader-says-he-will-not-be-pm-without-absolute-majority) and be reasonably confident once their incompetence and corruption has been exposed the state will still be more or less intact.
The UK has no such safety net.
If labour gets a good majority on the back their current “policies” why would they chase more votes by going further right. They just have to deliver on big policies then hopefully show some humanity.
Because that's just the way it works, especially with FPTP. Once you've voted for a party they couldn't care less what you think. If you don't vote for them they become very interested in what you think.
In addition to the usual pattern where Tories chase Reform voters, Labour chase Tory voters, we all get dragged right, etc, Labour can also lose votes directly to Reform at a higher rate than many people seem to be willing to accept.
If the 'floating votes' are seen to be going to Reform, all parties are going to go chasing after them. And chasing those voters is only going to make Reform a more valid choice. We've seen this right across the EU many times.
Voted this morning, Libdems..who have no chance really. Labour were the only ones who could have toppled the Tories here.
But Brexit, Gaza mean I will not vote Labour.... Just can't do it. Starmer made the decision to pander to the **** vote, so he lost mine.
Basically wot TJ said ..
Brexit of course is the real issue and why I do not want to vote for Labour – a fundamentally dishonest position ( ” no economic case to rejoin|”)
kerley
No, I definitely don’t want to wake up to a Tory victory
Absolutely, because the only thing we know with complete certainty is that things will not improve under a Tory government.
I want a lot better than that which is why I am saying so.
I want better too, we all do on here. 👍
It is short sighted to think they are the solution,
I have to disagree here though. No, rather I look at it differently, we all want change as change is the only way "better" can be achieved. Will change guarantee better, of course not but it's the only environment where there is at least a chance of improvement. Whether we like it or not, the only change on offer is a change of government. That's the cold, hard truth and I see no viable alternative. In the future, who knows?
look at US to see what can likely happen after 5 years
Totally agree, there are no guarantees here, the only certainty is that we know what another 5 years of Tory will do.
The only decision for me is who will get closest to the Tory as all the vote tories out type sites don’t draw any conclusions between Labour and Lib Dem
No other way to put it, that's a shit situation to be in. If that situation doesn't change I totally agree that voting with your heart is a valid scenario.👍
@thegeneralist - Peace in the middle east, undo Brexit... I'm sure another Conservative MP will help meet those aims.
Kelvin - none of the English parties are aiming at those things apart from maybe Greens?
In related news, the odds are shifting slightly after a several days of very little movement.
0-49 – shortening
50-99 – shortening
100-149 – lengthening
150+ Who cares.
I wouldn't read too much into it, unless there's good data to back it up, most bookies are doing what the name implies and keeping a ledger. The idea being to offer odds on both results that bring in enough bets to cover the alternative. So lengthening or shortening odds just tells you that their books aren't balanced and not enough people have put a bet on 100+ to cover the alternatives. It's mostly to do with the wisdom of crowds, but in most cases the crowds are being influenced by sentiment, it's why you should never bet on a home team, the bookies will be offering rubbish (i.e. low) odds of them winning, even if they stand no chance, because they don't want to end up with an unbalanced book that costs them if they do pull of an unlikely win.
Oh, by the way, apologies to those voting for third or fourth placed parties when choosing not to choose their MP... I shouldn't throw around blame and accusation so harshly... I've voted the same way many many times before... most of my life in fact... but I just find it interesting/worrying that after the last 15 years so many people are still doing it at this crucial election.
Just had my first labour leaflet through the door, they are lying. The latest poll from electoral calculus shows the SNP winning in this area on 42%, Labour on 37%, tories on 21%.
Perhaps labour were winning before the election was called, but to show a poll carried out on the 10 May 2024 whilst handing out leaflets (printed after the election was called) stating that according to latest polling that the Labour Party are winning perfectly sums up the Labour Party to me, slimy lying shapeshifting ****s.
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none of the English parties are aiming at those things apart from maybe Greens
I don't think the Greens are for undoing Brexit (happy to be corrected).
Plaid Cymru are tho 😁
Ta - I do not know Plaid policies. I assume similar to the SNP
Voted this morning, Libdems..who have no chance really. Labour were the only ones who could have toppled the Tories here.
But Brexit, Gaza mean I will not vote Labour…. Just can’t do it. Starmer made the decision to pander to the **** vote, so he lost mine.
While I understand the principles at stake here, where I come unstuck is that in my head surely the pragmatic thing to do is to cast a vote with the most chance of unseating the Tories?
I find this interesting because there is a chance that sticking with principles in the short term may lead to worse longer term outcomes. If I'm not mistaken an example of this happening is Sarah Olney (Lib Dem, Richmond Park) being beaten by Zac Goldsmith by the narrowest of margins in the 2017 snap election, where if the relative handful of Labour voters had gone Lib Dem she'd have won again.
leaflets stating that according to latest polling
But the leaflet clearly states when the poll was done, and that may well have been when the print was ordered. What do you want them to do....bin a load of leaflets cos a later poll has shown a change?
Voted this morning, Libdems..who have no chance really. Labour were the only ones who could have toppled the Tories here.
But Brexit, Gaza mean I will not vote Labour…. Just can’t do it. Starmer made the decision to pander to the **** vote, so he lost mine.
Well, that's depressing to hear, thanks.
Ta – I do not know Plaid policies. I assume similar to the SNP
Yeah but bizarrely no mention of independence in the manifesto launch, apparently (again, happy to be corrected)
I'm with @thegeneralist on this. You're supposed to be voting for something, not the slightly less worse option. We know the tories are buggered at this election. If ever there was an election to vote with your actual convictions, then this is it.
tjagain
Full Member
Kelvin – none of the English parties are aiming at those things apart from maybe Greens?
From what I know, yep, probably the Greens.
This is the Labour dilemma on Brexit, Gaza and in all honesty, a fair few things I also think are really important (recent YouGov poll):
That poll, in theory, it's representative of the UK population, the people Labour need to vote for them.
Shit as it is, there are many issues that are not a top priority for most people. Again, it's shit and I dont like it whatsoever but Brexit, Gaza and other policy matters I personally think are important are WAY down most people's list of priorities.
Brexit is very interesting too. There are many polls that say the majority of people do not think Brexit was a good idea. However, those very people, for the moment anyway, simply don't want another devisive shit storm of a referendum and the chaos that it's likely to cause in politics again. Also see how high up immigration is. Not the highest priority no, but it's there and it's inextricably linked to Brexit in peoples minds.
Again, whether we like it or not, people want a working NHS**, dentistry**, better economy**, that's what will decide their votes.
I *hate* Brexit but the population in general are not ready to open Pandora's box again. Yet.
**Now... getting rid of Brexit would help resolve those peoples priorities, I totally get that... but a sizable percentage of the population evidently don't. Based on that, Labour going into the GE on a promise of reversing Brexit would have been political suicide.
I *hate* Brexit but the population in general are not ready to open Pandora's box again. Yet.
The Greens etc can promise to get us back in the EU asap because they have the luxury of not having to enact the policy. That's a luxury Labour dont have.
Anyway, that's where I'm at for what it's worth which is very little.
the coffin lid may be down but I want it glued, nailed and screwed shut, burnt, and then the remains buried deep underground.
Then I'll be happy this government is dead.
If they had pinned the blame for Brexit on the tories and pointed out the damage caused by brexit and that rejoin would be best - you know leading not weathervane politicians then that may have changed. Brexit is the single key on which the rest depends. Without reversing brexit they will not be able to achieve anything much. Politicians can and do change public opinion. It requires leadership tho and risk taking. Insted they now share the b lame for brexit with tyhe toriesand have ignored their most poitent weapon.
Its dishonest and rank cowardice to continue to lie about and enthusiastically support brexit and it means they will be completely hamstrung in government
misteralz
Free Member
I’m with @thegeneralist on this. You’re supposed to be voting for something, not the slightly less worse option. We know the tories are buggered at this election. If ever there was an election to vote with your actual convictions, then this is it.
The Tories are absolutely praying that you and others do exactly that. In fact it's the exact message they are putting out, the "super majority danger", a "single party socialist state", "blank cheque"...
Sure, they'd prefer you to vite Tory but not voting at all, or voting for a minor party are absolutely their second best outcomes.
The Twitter menswear bloke has finally come for Sunak. He's not wrong though - he needs to sack his tailor, if he even has one. Even Jimmy Dimly is better dressed than him.
https://twitter.com/dieworkwear/status/1805905107512639725
I really don't care that Labour's policies aren't that radically different from the Tories, I just want them removed in the hope that the UK regains some semblance of political stability without the infighting, rampant cronyism, u-turns and lies that the Tories are currently subjecting us to.
Is it really too much to expect a basic level of professionalism that should be a prerequisite of the government?
Kelvin – none of the English parties are aiming at those things apart from maybe Greens?
Perhaps because they realise that neither can be solved immediately by a new government and that other issues can be.
Brexit is the single key on which the rest depends. Without reversing brexit they will not be able to achieve anything much.
Bollox. There are a whole hose of things that can be done without even touching the live rail of Brexit, you're just too stubborn and pig headed to be willing to see it. No one can simply reverse Brexit. Not now, not ever. We can negotiate a return to the EU, but it will be under VERY different terms and would require massive negotiation and massive support both inside the EU and the UK, neither of which you have.
So why would they waste their time on it during their first term of governance why they can actually get shit done?
tjagain
Full Member
If they had pinned the blame for Brexit on the tories and pointed out the damage caused by brexit and that rejoin would be best –
Anyone that doesn't already know Brexit was inflicted upon them by the Tories is a lost cause. They either like Brexit and will vote Reform or at the very least are willing to forgive the Tory party for it and vote Tory again.
I am fundamentally against Labour making promises, however laudable, that could cost them the election. It's completely unacceptable to allow the Tories another GE victory.
I hate Brexit but I hate the Tories far more. Whatever damage Brexit is doing will only be enhanced by another 5 years of Tory.
Brexit is fundamentally flawed and it will be undone in time but the house is on fire and I'll worry about replacing my porn collection after the fire is out.😉
We know the tories are buggered at this election.
Ooo... another time traveller. No one knows the national result yet, at all. There's a strong chance that millions of people will decide it's a done thing, as the campaign drags on, and leave it to other people to vote to stop a Conservative goverment. "If all these people are stopping the Tories, I don't need to". All we can do really is look at our own seats and work out what's going on and if it's possible it'll return a Conservative MP. Not based on the currently febrile polls, but on what's been happening at elections past... were the Conservatives so often surprise, and their opposition votes so often divided.
Go on then. Where are we going to get economic growth from? Where are we going to get the healthcare and hospitality workers we desperately need? How are we going to make up for the billions lost? nHow are we going to get the export trade back that we have lost?
without Rejoin they will be governing with both hands tied behind their back.
So please tell me what labour will actually do? they are saying nothing - and I mean nothing. No rejoin, no tax rises, no end to the two child benefit cap, no extra money for the NHS or education
so please tell me what they are going to be able to do?
Brexit is fundamentally flawed and it will be undone in time but the house is on fire and I’ll worry about replacing my porn collection after the fire is out.😉
The EU is not your porn collection - its the water supply we need to put the fire out 🙂
Tax rises have been announced by all the parties. The Tories claim they would/can use these to reduce other taxes. The other parties have announced targeted tax rises (the phrase "tax changes" is used more often though) that would be paired with increases in public spending in key areas (yes, it never actually works out that way... but it's a signalling of priorities, isn't it). I think we're at that point in the election campaign where reading the manifestos before claiming the parties are saying nothing is in order.
tiny marginal fiddlingh around the edges from labour - nothing that will raise the amount of money needed which is why they have said no more money for education or healthcare. Its also true Starmer has said that we cannot afford and end to the two child benefit limit.
given the scale of the problems ending non dom status is a drop in the ocean
So once again - please tell me how Labour are going to make stuff better without raising money or growth?
The EU is not your porn collection – its the water supply we need to put the fire out 🙂
To carry the analogy on though, if the Tories win, there won't be a fire engine available for days so water wont be needed.😁
Time traveller. Like it. 👍 My point that you should be voting for something rather than against it still stands. Playing whack a mole GTTO is equally time travelleresque given you're playing that game with polling data.
but I just find it interesting/worrying that after the last 15 years so many people are still doing it at this crucial election.
Agreed. I'm still 10% tempted to vote Labour tactically in my former safe Tory seat that looks like going to Labour.
For me though, Labour are essentially straight back to 15 years ago. They're going to bring in austerity by another name. Reeves is a Thatcherite economically (her own words) and don't even get me started on Streeting.
If it was a Jess Philips, Stella Creasy, Angela Rayner and Darren Jones led party, I'd potentially be more on board.
As it is, we've got ****s like that shit head Luke Akehurst being dropped into safe seats, and the red carpet rolled out for Natalie Elphicke. So no, I can't and won't vote for more of the same damaging politics. A slightly less corrupt version of Tory austerity with a red rosettes, is still Tory austerity. Green for me. We need to look beyond economic growth towards a more equitable model for society.
I just don’t see how honest conversations about the cost of living crisis can ignore Brexit.
So once again – please tell me how Labour are going to make stuff better without raising money or growth?
We know the answer, they can't.
So, growth is a long term strategy and should be aimed for but in the short term it's pie in the sky.
They will do what all government do. Borrow and hopefully raise targeted taxes.
The Tory (?) opposition will moan about it, so will the RW press... but Labour will counter with "Tory party left is with biggest financial crisis since WW2, we will not inflict austerity v2.0 on people etc". Much more importantly though, your average Joe doesn't give a shit about government debt if he can see a GP within a few days and isn't pulling his teeth out with plyers.
Government debt makes no discernable difference to my life or most other people's. All they need to do is not do it in the same way, or for the same reasons, as Truss.👍
Is it really too much to expect a basic level of professionalism that should be a prerequisite of the government?
If that is all you are after then you are easily pleased. You realise you could also have a highly professional fascist government?
You also realise that once in power the Labour government could also be not that good at stuff, have infighting (I hope so) etc,. so what do you do then? Lib Dems next time?
zomg
Full Member
I just don’t see how honest conversations about the cost of living crisis can ignore Brexit.
You have no idea how much I agree with you. 👍
The tragedy is, the electorate at large have other priorities, they also have no appetite currently for another 5 years of political and societal chaos due to trying to push a rejoin agenda through.
I wish it wasn't that way but we can only deal with the reality we have.
John Oliver summing it up well for Americans:
If they had pinned the blame for Brexit on the tories and pointed out the damage caused by brexit and that rejoin would be best
Labour are expecting that a sizable chunk of the folks that lent the Tories their vote so that they could "Get Brexit Done" will be giving the Labour party their vote in the understanding/ expectation that Brexit has been done, and they're not going to be asked about it again in the near [or medium] future. For a still sizable portion of the voting public Brexit is now no longer an issue, it has been decided, and for for better or worse that's the end of it.
Telling those folks that they were wrong, or misled, or asking if they would otherwise vote differently if offered the choice again is going to drive them to vote for the party that told them they'd get it done, got it done, and will more than happily tell them them that if you vote Labour they'll undo it.
The effort to re-join the EU (if we ever do) is decades away, not an issue for this, the next or even the parliament after that. If I was Starmer, I'd be joining in with the chorus, and at the same time working in the background (as Reeves has already suggested they do with her comments about "no one voted for Brexit just so that we could change the rules about how to handle chemicals") to make life as easy as it can be to trade with the EU, and maybe revisit the rules about young folks moving and working abroad. Those two things alone would make a massive difference to how much of a long term effect it continues to have while still be able to stand up in Parliament and say "we have respected the vote to leave and aren't intending to ask you again"
I’m being shown a lot of YouTube ads for Charlie Dewhirst, who tells me he’s running for the Conservative Party in Driffield. I usually skip ads as soon as possible, but I’m making an exception for these in the hope it costs him more. I am in Cambridge, so couldn’t vote for him even if I was that kind of ****.