[Closed] Tottenham Riots

what sort of person sees the death of a man as an opportunity to get some new trainers.

Welcome to Tottenham.

The whole corridor east of the A10 from Stamford Hill through to Waltham Cross is some of the most deprived in Western Europe.

People have killed for less, and will again.

Pull a gun on an armed copper, expect to die. End of. Bring out the water cannon.

I blame this little blighter!!!

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Mousist!

the community under discussion must be harbouring a lot of pent up anxiety and frustration.. and the fact that it is focussed at authority (even though the destruction has been directed elsewhere)must show that some of the kids living in the area must feel very heavily let down by those in power..

It's all very well to be scornful and dismissive of people that aren't exactly like you.. but surely even you hapless wonders spouting vitriol from the safety of your keyboard can understand that the problem is way more complex than right and wrong..?

the only racist here is Mr Monkey himself!

well, i'm not the one who has said...........

It's my democratic right to share [b]my[/b] country.......

or

now I'm just waiting for how the police is all working for Babylon and man dem need to carry heat for protection

or

On the upside, all me bredren got some sweet Reebox and we is rollin' deep in wall mounted plasmas

case dismissed.

It's my democratic right to share my country.......

You are at it again! If I was to say "my country" in a statement there is no inference made that it is also not someoneelses rightful country of a different race unless of couse a racist reader were to choose to read it like that. I read the original in context that skiboy did not enjoy share a country with "trouble making opportunist thieving toss pots". If you read that as an ethnic slur you have problems!

Granted on the other comments - no need. Although as someone else above mentioned, when I go visit my sister in that London (not a million miles from this riot - reminds me to ring her!) young people of all ethnicities talk exactly like that. But that's not what the original posters were infering I suspect so you do have a point.

Any word on whether the dearly departed ever had trials for Leyton Orient yet? That's the usual spiel.

I imagine lamp posts are being adorned with banners for him right now. TRU SOLJA 4 EVA or something.

I imagine lamp posts are being adorned with banners for him right now. TRU SOLJA 4 EVA or something.

That's not even [i]Raoul Moat[/i]ly amusing...

Wonder how many who were looting JJB and setting fires are helping tidy up the community they care so much about?

**** 'em both.

Wow it's like reading the Daily Mail comments section in here 😆

Wow it's like reading the Daily Mail comments section in here

Go on, try adding a comment about the news story (which is why I presume you opened the thread) - you know, expressing an opinion rather than commenting on the comments. You know you want to 😉

Nothing written here will make the blindest bit of difference so your contribution dosn't need to be very insightful - you know you can do it!

the community under discussion must be harbouring a lot of pent up anxiety and frustration

Sorry but bollox, they should be feeling more at ease as there is one less gun and gunman on their streets, working their community.

I imagine lamp posts are being adorned with banners for him right now. TRU SOLJA 4 EVA or something.

Probably. The self confessed Turkish drug dealing gang member who was assissinated as he sat in his Range Rover at the A10 traffic lights at White Hart Lane several years ago still has a roadside shrine dedicated to him on The Roundway.

so very sad for all those people who have lost everything, their homes, workpaces and buisnesses, and the ones who have lost the respect of the rest of us the general public, its going to take a long time for all to get back to normality.

There are some ignorant and hateful people on STW.

And hey, look; quite a few of them have turned up on this thread! Surprise surprise..

As for mistrust and resentment of the Police; I know lots of nice, respectable, White Middle Class people who can't stand Babylon Dem. Why is that, do you think?

I find it interesting the way some posters are already forming scenarios and imagined views of what happened in their heads. As for the 'racism'; sure, it's STW after all, but I think it's more the xenophobia along social lines that's more disturbing. Not at all surprising that it's coming from a few who routinely display narrow-minded ignorance on here though.

Keep it up; this is praps the only place where you will be comfortable enough to vent your own anger, as you're probbly way to cowardly to say owt in 'real life'. Just as well there's the internet, eh?

Earlier in this thread someone used the phrase "no smoke without fire". That goes both ways. Surely there would be no protest "smoke" if there wasn't a tiny wee bit of police "fire" involved somewhere.

The police in that part of the world aren't exaclty portraying themselves in the best way at present.

Did they murder the guy without him pulling a gun - probably not. Was the guy who was killed entirely to blame and was his death the only way to end that particular incident - probably not.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Guy probably had a gun on him, but there was probably a copper with an itchy trigger finger involved somewhere along the line.

Rioting in response to someone being needlessly killed is something that while I dont condone it, I can see why people would do just that.

Go on, try adding a comment about the news story (which is why I presume you opened the thread) - you know, expressing an opinion rather than commenting on the comments. You know you want to

Nothing written here will make the blindest bit of difference so your contribution dosn't need to be very insightful - you know you can do it!

OK, I don't claim to know what it's like growing up in a very deprived area with very little prospects - but I don't imagine many on STW do either. What's that saying: 'Before criticizing a man, walk a mile in his shoes'?

I think destroying your community is pretty stupid behaviour - but I think it's worth thinking about why people feel that angry and alienated, rather than just calling them scum.

FWIW I'm not sure the comments were racist, just part of a general hatred and demonizing of young people in this country.

I blame Sacha Baron Coen - damn Cambridge graduates coming over here and pointing out the stupidity of using skin colour or race as an excuse.

It started with a peaceful march of about 120 people including some sort of vicar to the police station.

It ended with a massive riot, burning, looting and violence.

I think the question to be asked is: what happened to derive the one from the other? These things don't "just happen". There's reasons for them.

Any opportunistic behaviour must have joined in AFTER the initial spark to the conflict.

What that might have been I couldn't say, sitting as I am here overlooking sleepy little Leatherhead where the most violent thing to happen in the whole year was probably someone having an argument outside Wetherspoons....

People should not rush to judgement before all the facts are in and in some notable cases, even then. They only make themselves look stupid.

Did they murder the guy without him pulling a gun - probably not. Was the guy who was killed entirely to blame and was his death the only way to end that particular incident - probably not.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Guy probably had a gun on him, but there was probably a copper with an itchy trigger finger involved somewhere along the line.

Could you actually fit any more conjecture into that - a few too many "probably's" and a significant lack of evidence of any form!

Tell me, if this bloke had been from the EDL, would you be hedging your best that his shooting was "probably" oppressive and aggressive policing? I suppose you cried out that Raoul Moat's shooting was evil police looking for a fight as well? I don't recall seeing the Geordies in the street burning buses over that one!

The self confessed Turkish drug dealing gang member who was assissinated as he sat in his Range Rover at the A10 traffic lights at White Hart Lane several years ago still has a roadside shrine dedicated to him on The Roundway.

So, tell me why exactly a Human Being with family and friends shouldnt have any form of memorial to them?

We put statues up of those who are complicit in Genocide. And we call them 'heroes'.

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I was just about to expolde in rage at Elfin then I realised it must be a massive troll.
Well done good effort, you nearly had me going!

Isn't that against the rules?

grum - much better - a useful contribution.

The mile in someones shoes bit is tricky. Not one of us has sat behind the PM's desk and read the memos and information available at the time but we all have some sort of opinion of what he should or should not be doing. Similarly very few, if any of us are true economic experts yet most have some sort of opinion about the euro/ interest rates/ economic bail outs etc. We could all put caveats on everything we write expressing our total ignorance but that would get boring to read. It's human nature to have opinions and base them on the known facts & experiences as known to the person with the opinions. People are also allowed to have opinions you don't agree with - win them over with a cronstructive statement (like above) rather than just deriding as "dail mail".

Soz to disappoint, but nope, not a troll at all.

I was just about to expolde in rage

Go on, let yourself go; feel the anger coursing through your veins...

Or maybe take a step back, and think about things a bit more.

Was the guy who was killed entirely to blame and was his death the only way to end that particular incident - probably not.

Absolutely he was entirely to blame yes!
We do not live in America where gun crime is almost accepted. Not every police officer here is armed, so those that are, are here to protect the public and other officers. Absolute zero tolerance to gun crime should be enforced. If anyone pulls an illegal firearm in public there is only one end state.

I imagine most of the destroying and thieving will have instigated by people from outside of the community.

i would my self introduce a law saying any one caught with a illegal gun wil be shot with it at the side of the road. i also would have used the army last night.

Yeah but in fairness, ILMG, you're not known for your thoughtfulness and rationality, are you? 😀

I would my self introduce a law saying any one caught with a illegal gun wil be shot with it at the side of the road. i also would have used the army last night.

Yes, but that's because you are an idiot.

😆

yossarian - Member
I would my self introduce a law saying any one caught with a illegal gun wil be shot with it at the side of the road. i also would have used the army last night.
Yes, but that's because you are an idiot.

**** you!

bye

if they you did this in china they would have used a tank and many many rioters would be dead!

Now now. This might very possibly go on to be a in interesting thread, stimulating debate and discussion and stuff. And people might learn something as a result. Don't go spoiling it with childishness now please...

**** you!

it ant a interesting thread its just a load of guardian readers ranting on about how crime is caused by peoples social problems rather than them just being stupid scum.

People are also allowed to have opinions you don't agree with - win them over with a cronstruction statement (like above) rather than just deriding as "dail mail".

I've just seen it all before many times on here, can't always be arsed trying to argue constructively. I just find it particularly abhorrent for all the middle-class IT managers on here to be slating people as scum as if we all had the same choices/opportunities in life.

edit: oh look it's ilovemygears doing exactly that (*looks for the killfile plugin thread)

Also, does anyone remember how after the Charles De Menezes case (remember him? killed by police for 'crime of looking a bit dark-skinned') the police deliberately leaked misleading information to try and make their actions look more justified. So their accounts cannot necessarily be trusted and it's no wonder people feel angry/disillusioned with the police.

i want to live in a country were criminals are treated like the filth they are rather than pampered by the liberal elite

Re: Elfin.

I don't see how conflating the decisions of World War 2 leaders fighting to save the UK and the rest of the world from Nazism, with the life of a dead drug salesman is relevant?

I assume that the third photo is of someone I don't recognise from that period rather than from the previous World War which was fought for entirely different reasons because otherwise that would be another illogical pairing that makes no sense.

The methods were messy and arguably innapropriate, but we are no longer in the position of risking life in a slave labour camp for disagreeing with A Great Leader of some sort.

I take your point about the entitlement of relatives to commemorate the dead drug salesman, but if others are doing it, it raises the question of the local culture and whether or not it's a "bad" one that needs turning around.

However, many rich and famous people have lived a life of drug addiction without the attendant opprobrium that comes from those in the fortunate position of being able to be self-righteous.

Don't think I'd like to live there, though. In fact, I'd probably do my best to get out of the *expletive deleted*hole as soon as I could for somewhere like - ooh I dunno, where I am now...

i want to live in a country were criminals are treated like the filth they are rather than pampered by the liberal elite

In your dream fascist society people as stupid as you would probably be sterilised, so it's not all bad I suppose.

So, tell me why exactly a Human Being with family and friends shouldnt have any form of memorial to them?

Hi Elfin - because it reinforces a negative image to a young vunerable audiance and appears to turn the victim into a hero not the villain he was.

His death should of course be grieved by family and friends in private, not marked with celebration on our streets.

Just my opinion of course.

M

Also, does anyone remember how after the Charles De Menezes case (remember him? killed by police for 'crime of looking a bit dark-skinned) the police deliberately leaked misleading information to try and make their actions look more justified.

And how just after Ian Tomlinson was killed, the police released a statement claiming there was no CCTV footage available. They soon had to backtrack when all the independent witness cam footage turned up though...

Millions of pounds has bin spent on the investigation into the murder of PC Kieth Blakelock. Three men were framed by corrupt poliice officers, and sent to jail for a crime they did not commit. [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Roach ]Yet there has still bin no official enquiry into the death of Colin Roach.[/url]

No surprise then, that many people (including nice respectable White Middle Class folk) mistrust and resent the police.

grum - Member
i want to live in a country were criminals are treated like the filth they are rather than pampered by the liberal elite
In your dream fascist society people as stupid as you would probably be sterilised, so it's not all bad I

i mean even in the USA they know how to treat criminals, and that ant no fascist country. Yes i expect you prefer to live in a country were the criminal has more rights than the victim,

No surprise then, that many people (including nice respectable White Middle Class folk) mistrust and resent the police.

Quite.

i mean even in the USA they know how to treat criminals, and that ant no fascist country. Yes i expect you prefer to live in a country were the criminal has more rights than the victim,

If you are suggesting that the US has an ideal criminal justice system then....well....oh....what's the point.