[Closed] Tory MP calls police plebs

JY but not the mangled logic of the rest of the argument.

You either condone people insulting others on the basis of their background/class or you do not.

You seem to be happy (I assume) to abuse people for being members of the aristocratic classes

but object to someone else making reference to members of the non-aristocratic classes (the meaning of pleb or plebeian).

I think pleb is much more of an insult for the reasons I gave. You can disagree or not that is your choice.

Seems like a slight wiff of double standards to me?

you want to check out the Vince cable thread for that 😉
I can see why you think that but hey i can live with that.

I am not insulting you (and I agree with the concluding line), I am saying that in this case I believe [i]your logic[/i] is mangled. Two forms of categorisation and possible terms of abuse - toffs and plebs - refer to members and non-members of the aristocratic classes. I fail to see the difference between using either as a means of abuse - so yes we will have to agree to disagree! I can easily see a toff hiding behind the same defence - neither abusive, inaccurate just blunt - and not accepting that either 😉

Happy to have any double standards re VC pointed out on that thread - I actually thought it was a pretty good political speech, if light on detail on what I was interested to see as a new headline LD policy - the business bank.

Loving the double standards on here.

Remove the fact that the accused is a Tory Cabinet Minister and replace with ordinary STW frequenting cyclist going about their business and whose route is obstructed by a jobsworth. Posts angry RANT on STW with expletives, use of words like 'pleb', and generally totally p155ed off that some lazy twonk has unneccessarily caused them to get off their bicycle because they're too lazy to carry out their job...

Would get at least a 9/10, possibly even a 10/10 8)

(So, how exactly did the story get into the press and how exactly did The Sun get copies of the official police report and statements?)

Surely it would immediately attract a 'first world problems' tag? 😉

if someone came on here and said a policeman had made him use a gate 1 meter to his right,
and that hed proceeded to swear and insult the copper and said he was going to take it to their superiors hed get a lot of flack,
especially if it was the day after 2 wpcs were shot in manchester.
and if he then lied about it in the national press saying he didnt swear, but then admit he did etc etc

Long and short of this is that he is someone who loses control easily and then seemingly lies (or plays politician's semantics ala Paxman v Howard). Either isn't great but together he should be out of a job. Boris would have owned up, said he was an arse and been recognised as a bit of a lad/normal geezer. Honesty's the best policy cos my Mum said so and I've seen nothing thus far to disprove it.

CMD needs to get some decent PR. Oh and some decent policies too!

It's so funny this thread.
the double standards bull sh1t spouted by you lot is hilarious, you just hate everybody and bounce from one week to the next hating whoever the press gets you to loath.
Its been the police for brutality in the riots, then police for killing allegedly Ian Tomlinson, then the police for covering up hillsborough, why dont you just accept that you are being played by the media.

Remove the fact that the accused is a Tory Cabinet Minister and replace with ordinary.......

And you don't have a story. Why ffs, is that so difficult to understand ?

It is [i]precisely[/i] the fact that he is a Government Chief Whip which makes this incident newsworthy.

Chief Whip of a party who's senior politicians have gone on record demanding that anyone who swears at a police officer be arrested.

Chief Whip of a party which repeatedly denies representing the social elite, or of being out of touch with ordinary people, or of treating them with contempt and arrogance.

A public school educated senior Tory publicly dismissing someone as a "pleb" is quite rightly newsworthy, although for very obvious reasons I'm sure Tories would prefer to think that it wasn't.

Of course the contempt and arrogance isn't news, just this latest piece of evidence is. People were warned last election what to expect

...which might go some way in explaining their failure to win.

Sancho - Member

It's so funny this thread.
the double standards bull sh1t spouted by you lot is hilarious, you just hate everybody and bounce from one week to the next hating whoever the press gets you to loath.
Its been the police for brutality in the riots, then police for killing allegedly Ian Tomlinson, then the police for covering up hillsborough, why dont you just accept that you are being played by the media.

nah ive been loathing the tory party for some time, granted i didnt know this guy existed a week ago, but i enjoy watching him drag camerons party further down into the swamp

It's only a story though Ernie because certain media have stirred it up and the baton has been enthusiastically taken up by those seeking political gain.
Fact: there was an altercation.
Fact: Mitchell has made a personal apology to the police officer involved.
Fact: That officer has accepted the apology and advised the Chief Commissioner of the Met Police that he does not wish to take it further.
Fact: The Chief has stated that they are not taking the matter further.
Fact: Mitchell has apologised to Cameron etc.
Fact: that apology has been accepted.
What may or may not have been said will only be known by those present; whichever side you choose to believe cannot be proven by fact. One or both parties may be lying, either partly or entirely.

It's a storm in a tea cup (unless political gain is being pursued).
e.g. Labour have called for an inquiry. How much will that cost? £10,000? £100,000? Why? What a total waste of time and money!

It's a storm in a tea cup (unless political gain is being pursued).

but it is political; the police federation are using it to gain support for the police as the government is trying to weaken their pay and conditions and ultimately sell it off, while mitchells old etonian chums are countering this by releasing their own anonymous quotes to the right wing press, and murdoch gets to stick one in the eye of the torries after they let levenson destroy notw

It's only a story though Ernie because certain media have stirred it up

So when was the last story in the news which didn't come via the media ?

The media have given this story prominence because presumably they believe the public would be interested. And quite right too, it is a perfectly fair assumption - if a very senior Tory politician launches into a foul-mouthed rant in the street at a copper, dismissing him as a "pleb", then I want to know about, and I want to know what is going to be done about it.

I suspect many people share a simular interest in this matter, although as I have already suggested I don't expect many members of the Tory Party do.

The media have given this story prominence because presumably they believe the public would be interested.

Which respected branch of the media broke the story?

The Sun wasn't it?

Yep, they've got quite a history of giving stories prominence because they're in the public interest, haven't they...

For what its worth, wasn't plod in the wrong for trying to make a vehicle go through a pedestrian gate, because he couldn't be bothered opening the correct one?

For what its worth, wasn't plod in the wrong for trying to make a vehicle go through a pedestrian gate, because he couldn't be bothered opening the correct one?

Z-11

I think it was Mitchell's humungous ego that wouldn't fit through the side gate don't you! Pedestrians wheel their bikes through this gate. The S06 Protection Officers aren't allowed to open the main gate unnecessarily as each time they're open, security is compromised.

Perspective please. So AM behaves like an ar$e. He's embarrassed and put through the mill. His party is embarrassed and correctly mocked for double standards. But c'mon...the public or national interest. What a crock. It's a moment of political mischief and nothing more. Two people really seem to have taken the correct response to whole stupid incident. The policeman involved and, for a change, the Business Secretary*. Make the guy squirm correctly for his stupidity and pomposity, make a joke and move on. The media has headlines to sell. The rest of us have lives to lead. Perspective please.

* not normally a Cable fan 😉 but that was a bloody good line/joke and well delivered!

Deluded

Why? in case of the hordes of potential suicide bombers waiting to flood through the gate every time its opened? 🙄

man on bike = vehicle

[img] [/img]

It's a moment of political mischief and nothing more

...it's hardly Cameron saying "calm down dear" at the despatch box is it? [s]Plebs[/s] normal non-"don't you know who I am?" people have been arrested and cautioned for being less offensive than that to police officers. (and why not? ...as the Conservative Party line that I am sure AM is well aware of reminds us...)

I think the public have a right to be reminded that this is what some politicians of all parties think of those who (sometimes) vote for them and whose taxes pay their wages.

I am sure AM is not above making an example of or arranging the scapegoating a unfortunate and blundering MP in his role as whip. Is it that wrong that it should also be the case for him?

What?

You don't consider Downing Street a target from a whole host of different groups, be they terrorist, domestic extremism or otherwise?

Anyway, I've had enough of 'Plebgate' 😀 - off to work a set of nights.

Zulu-Eleven - Member

Why? in case of the hordes of potential suicide bombers waiting to flood through the gate every time its opened?

Oh the irony !!! 😀

It was your beloved Margret Thatcher who put the gates in Downing Street. Yes that's right, before Margret Thatcher became PM anyone could drive, cycle, or walk, past Number 10. But she became convinced, unsurprisingly, that people wanted to kill her, so she had those huge gates installed.

Yup, I blame Thatcher for this whole sorry story 🙂

How bizarre that on a 'cyclists' forum a fellow cyclist is berated for confronting some jobsworth copper too bone idle to do his job properly.
Slag him off for being a tory by all means but not for doing what many of us would commend if it was anyone else.

on a 'cyclists' forum a fellow cyclist is berated

He's a government chief whip who happens to sometimes ride a bike. I don't consider him to be a "fellow" cyclist, anymore than I consider him to be a "fellow" motorist when he's driving his car.

before Margret Thatcher became PM anyone could drive, cycle, or walk, past Number 10

There has been a barrier at the Whitehall entrance to Downing street since 1973, preventing anyone from driving down the street.

check Hansard!

Prior to that - here's a photo from 1922:

[img] [/img]

Ernie Fail!

as if anyone cares

The first barriers in Downing Street were erected at the St. James's Park end of the street for the unveiling of the Cenotaph on 11 November 1920. They were a public safety measure intended to prevent the crowds in Whitehall becoming too dense.[11]

With the movement for Irish independence increasing in violence, it was decided that these barriers would be retained, and raised and strengthened. In addition, on 26 November 1920 construction commenced on a substantial wooden barricade, 8 feet (2.4 m) high, were erected at the end of the street. These were described as being of a "substantial character" mounted into proper foundations. Vehicle gates were included in the barrier.[11][12] The barriers were taken down in 1922 with the creation of the Irish Free State, but vehicle access has been curtailed since 1973 when metal barriers were placed across the entrance to the street.[13]

In 1974, the Metropolitan Police proposed erecting a semi-permanent barrier between the pavement and carriageway on the Foreign Office side of the street, to keep pedestrians off the main part of the street. The proposal came with assurances that tourists would still be permitted to take photographs at the door of Number 10. However then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson rejected the proposal, feeling that it would appear to be an unacceptable restriction of the freedom of the public. Wilson's private secretary wrote "I much regret this further erosion of the Englishman's right to wander at will in Downing Street."[14]

In 1982 access was more fully restricted with railings and a demountable gate. This was replaced by the current black steel gates in 1989.[15] The increase in security was again due to an increase in violence, particularly by the IRA.

What a twunt Mitchell is.

"I did not say the words atributed to me". Meaning (if you are dissembling like he is) "the exact quote is not 100%, word for word correct".

This is really 'clever' as it is probably not a direct lie. With arrogant and cynical dross like him, you really have to go for yes/no answers - anything that leaves any room for interpretation (no matter how pedantic) will be seized upon and used to evade the truth. It would be funny if politicians didn't actually think this was clever.

Cameron et al want to distance themselves from this because it adds to the perception that they are an arrogant little cliquel, who have no life experience and no concept of how the other half might live. But hang on, that's exactly what they are! They are actually way out of line with the solid and valid tenets of conservatism (self-reliance, financial caution, family values). They are a little club, in hock to their mates from Bullingdon or school who are currently working in the city. As in the days of the MacMillan government, their narrowness is both a real weakness and an easy target for others.

I have met a lot of public-school types (I also went to a private school) and the VAST majority are just ordinary people whose parents decided to pay for their education. There was a significant minority who I once summed up as 'having no concept of other people'. Meaning that they moved in narrow little circles, shunned anyone who they felt beneath them and generally acted in a disgustingly arrogant way. A lot of them out of sheer social maladjustedness.

Who the bloody hell am I going to vote for with these three bunches of tossers knocking about?

cheekyboy - Member
How bizarre that on a 'cyclists' forum a fellow cyclist is berated for confronting some jobsworth copper too bone idle to do his job properly.
Slag him off for being a tory by all means but not for doing what many of us would commend if it was anyone else.

I'd have the bastards job.

cheekyboy - Member
How bizarre that on a 'cyclists' forum a fellow cyclist is berated for confronting some jobsworth copper too bone idle to do his job properly.

or was it just massive ego of the 'cyclist' who demanded the double gates opened for him rather than having to walk through the regular gate a whole metre to his right

or was it just massive ego of the 'cyclist' who demanded the double gates opened for him rather than having to walk through the regular gate a whole metre to his right

POSTED 2 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

I forgot to register to vote so technically I shouldn't even be reading this.

plebian

You're missing an "e", you uneducated oaf.

deadlydarcy - Member
plebian
You're missing an "e", you uneducated oaf.

POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST

Chears !

E's are good!

Prior to that - here's a photo from 1922:

Ernie Fail!

Well that clearly is not the present gates - as Junkyard's post shows, those were taken down in 1922. The present gates were put there by Thatcher as she believed too many people wanted to kill her, although you now appear to ridicule the role of the gates.

As I said, I blame Thatcher for plebgate. She's clearly the root cause of the problem.

the way jy's post read, anyone let alone the chief whip of the government could have ridden a bicycle past number 10 before the black gates were put up.

Cycling plebs would have to have a cap on at a jaunty angle and be whistling out of tune though.

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9564006/In-full-Police-log-detailing-Andrew-Mitchells-pleb-rant.html ]Latest news![/url]

shirley its gategate not plebgate ?

I vote for Whipgate or Thrashergate.

shirley its gategate not plebgate ?

No, the issue in this scandal is that a government chief whip is alleged to have referred to police officers as "plebs", and his general ranting, the existence of the gates is not in itself scandalous.

And please don't call me shirley.

Make the guy squirm correctly for his stupidity and pomposity, make a joke and move on. The media has headlines to sell. The rest of us have lives to lead. Perspective please.

Showing your political bias again there I think. As above, name me another (especially as a high profile senior 'public servant') job where you can get away with swearing and shouting abuse at a police officer in public, making a mealy-mouthed apology then changing your story about it, and expect not to get sacked?

If he wasn't a powerful person he would most likely have been arrested.

Whilst on duty at tonight (Wed 19th Sept) on a 1400-2200 hrs between the hours of 1800-2000 I had to deal with a man claiming to be the chief whip and who I later confirmed to be such and a Mr Andrew MITCHELL.
Mr Mitchell was speaking to PC ** demanding exit through the main vehicle gate into Whitehall. PC ***** explained to Mr MITCHELL that the policy was for pedal cycles to use the side pedestrian exit. Mr MITCHELL refused, stating he was the chief whip and he always used the main gates.
I explained to Mr MITCHELL that the policy was to use the side pedestrian gates and that I was happy to open those for him, but that no officer present would be opening the main gates as this was the policy we were directed to follow.
Mr MITCHELL refused. Repeatedly reiterating he was the chief whip. My exact explanation to Mr MITCHELL was "I am more than happy to open the side pedestrian gate for you Sir, but it is policy that we are not to allow cycles through the main vehicle entrance".
After several refusals Mr MITCHELL got off his bike and walked to the pedestrian gate with me after I again offered to open that for him.

There were several members of public present as is the norm opposite the pedestrian gate and as we neared it, Mr MITCHELL said: "Best you learn your f------ place...you don’t run this f------ government...You’re f------ plebs." The members of public looked visibly shocked and I was somewhat taken aback by the language used and the view expressed by a senior government official. I can not say if this statement was aimed at me individually, or the officers present or the police service as a whole.
I warned Mr MITCHELL that he should not swear, and if he continued to do so I would have no option but to arrest him under the Public Order Act, saying "Please don’t swear at me Sir. If you continue to I will have no option but to arrest you under the public order act".
Mr MITCHELL was then silent and left saying "you haven’t heard the last of this" as he cycled off.
I forward this to you as all officers were extremely polite to Mr MITCHELL, but such behaviour and verbal expressions could lead to the unfortunate situation of officers being left no option but to exercise their powers.
I write this for your information as Mr Mitchell’s last comments would appear to indicate that he is unhappy with my actions.
I have recorded this fully in my pocket book.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9564006/In-full-Police-log-detailing-Andrew-Mitchells-pleb-rant.html

Love it, I wish I could call a copper like that a pleb, there have been plenty of coppers Id happily call a pleb or worse, the one who wrote a completely false account of my accident with a car, I have already called a moron to his commanding officer and am now having to write a letter of complaint asking for him to be disciplined, before having to take the insurance company to court to settle my insurance claim purely because a useless copper cant write up an incident report accurately.

the guy shouldn't lose his job, he should just serve 12 weeks probation in McDonalds in Dagenham or somewhere. Learn how life truly is. Probably won't even get a gold star for customer service. dickhead.

Oh joy Millipede et al are now demanding a full Parliamentary Enquiry - R4 news bulletin - FFS he is politician and therefore an odious ****wit, the world and all the electorate can see this through his actions, but in a time when the country is brassic do we really need to spend money proving it? CMD's inaction speaks volumes but is anyone really surprised.

Having read the Telegraph report I can only surmise that he was being an arrogant knobber who was hiding behind the job title and did nothing that could be interpreted as diffusing the situation and only function in a way that is an abuse of power and serves to widen the class gap.
Mitchell was being quite arsey too.
Questions here,for me, are where is the policy of using the side gate published?
Can Mitchell demonstrate that he had habitually used the main gate without issue?
Was the officer acting in the interest of everyone?
Exactly which crime was prevented from occuring?
I call jobsworth who thought he could abuse his power and get one back. As can be seen here, Mitchell and his ilk have very few fans on leftwingtrackworld.

rogerthecat - Member

Oh joy Millipede et al are now demanding a full Parliamentary Enquiry

Have you got a link which reports that Miliband is demanding a "full Parliamentary Enquiry" ? I can't find any news provider which is carrying that story.

Certainly the Police Federation has been leading the calls for an inquiry into the behaviour of the Chief Whip, which Labour has supported, and there has a request to the parliamentary commissioner for standards to investigate whether Mitchall broke the MP's code of conduct. But I can't see any references to Miliband calling for a "full Parliamentary Enquiry"

CMD's inaction speaks volumes but is anyone really surprised.

What "inaction" ? Do you think Cameron should have sacked Mitchell ? Without any sort of investigation? It is normal to investigate things before sacking people.

Mitchell and his ilk have very few fans on leftwingtrackworld.

And there it is again.........the claim that the mounting criticism of the Chief Whip's behaviour is all just an anti-Tory left-wing plot.

Mitchell's foul-mouthed rant has been given very extensive coverage, including front page coverage, by the Sun, the Daily Express, the Daily Mail, the Daily Telegraph, and the Times. All five newspapers are right-wing and support the Tory Party. Indeed all five newspapers urged their readers to vote Tory last election, and will undoubtedly urge their readers to vote Tory next election. The Tory supporting Daily Telegraph is the only newspaper to have published the full police report.

But this whole story and the coverage which it is receiving is due to anti-Tory left-wingers ? Get a grip. Plebgate would have received the same coverage, if not more, if the accused had been a Labour Chief Whip.