TuckerUK - Member
I've never quiet understood why more anger hasn't been directed towards the abandoning parent of poor James (he could equally have been injured by broken glass in the store, electrocuted on a faulty ride, fallen over and hurt his head), and the parents that made those children the monsters they were.
Nah, you can't be for real...
trolls unlimited on here.....
Such an awful and terribly sad event on so many levels.
No good will ever come out of it.
Nobody wins.
Not the child murdered
Not the child killers
Not the parents of the murdered child
Not the parents of the killers.
Would giving John Venables to the baying mob change anything? Really?
No. There is no god.
😯
On the subject, Will Self brought up a good point on Question Time a couple of years ago. About 8 and a half mins in.
I grew up and lived near there when the incident took place. It was harrowing and upsetting and for those that dont know it wasnt "just" the fact that Jamie was murdered but the way it happened.
It torments many people who remember being "close" (in the sense of being part of the wider but local community)
I dont bay for anybodies blood but as a parent its disturbing to recall both what the child suffered as well as the destroyed lives of the children who committed the act.
A shame but typical that morons like to trot out the same regional stereotypes.
thanks DD. You were nowhere near as deadly as I thought you would be either 🙂
[i]been asked to justify having a username that sounds like paedophile when spoken.
It's ok, he isn't really one - turns out it's a joke. [/i]
He could be doing it to trick us.
Like Kevin Webster shaving his moustache off.
rudebwoy - Member
trolls unlimited on here....
Amen
As a parent of 2 and an uncle of children with ages of the victim and killers it makes my mind boggle. There will always be exception to any rule as such but i'm not convinced the concept of killing or the mechanics of it will ever be in the head of a ten year old. I'm sure there was intent to hurt or scare (i don't know every detail of it) but not much more. Maybe its how he/they were treated. The two lads needed to be punished that goes without saying but they also needed more help than i'm aware/think they got. I think its very sad all round. The criminal responsibility should depend on the age of the child committing it and amount of understanding expected for that age.
Should we look at what is taught or not as well and how much lies at the feet of the parent/guardian.
Yes i know some kids are evil little buggers even with the best parent/environment.
Lynching someone will never make it better (maybe for a fleeting moment). He has destroyed his own life forever. Isn't that what we would want. If he is still a danger then lock him up.
On a lighter note.... "peterfile" i do find amusing.
Is there any proof that the photo's are of Venables? Wouldn't be the first time the wrong person got fingered...
Had some inside knowledge of the injuries dished out by these two.
In my opinion, shoud never be released
Is there any proof that the photo's are of Venables? Wouldn't be the first time the wrong person got fingered...
Good point and I'm annoyed at myself for not questioning that when I first saw it. Imagine if you happen to look like the bloke in the photo, dread to think what could happen.
There will always be exception to any rule as such but i'm not convinced the concept of killing or the mechanics of it will ever be in the head of a ten year old. I'm sure there was intent to hurt or scare (i don't know every detail of it) but not much more. Maybe its how he/they were treated. The two lads needed to be punished that goes without saying but they also needed more help than i'm aware/think they got. I think its very sad all round. The criminal responsibility should depend on the age of the child committing it and amount of understanding expected for that age.
Haven't read the whole thread so I dunno if it's been mentioned, but in Sweden they have a different (more civilised) approach to children who kill.
A boy aged 10 has confessed to strangling a four-year-old boy with a skipping rope in a case that has shocked a rural town..............
...............Ing-Marie Bystrom, the head of social welfare in Ljungby, who now has care of the boy, said he would not be punished.
"The role of social services is not to punish. It is to provide care and treatment and we will now make use of child psychiatry," she told a Swedish newspaper.
"We have already started working around the clock on care and treatment," she added. "This is an extremely tragic and fortunately rare event."
"Children can be cruel to each other, but not evil," Margit Ekenberg, a child psychologist, said.
Officials said the boy had been taken into custody with his family. "The whole family has been moved, along with the boy, to a secret location," said Carina Karlund, spokesman for the social services department in Ljungby municipality. "They are getting 24-hourtreatment to help them deal with the things that have happened. It's important that the parents cooperate in these kind of cases."
Had some inside knowledge of the injuries dished out by these two.
In my opinion, shoud never be released
the courts clearly disagree with you
IBT
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i work with the odd paedophile, my mum was regularly raped by one for years when she was a kid.... yet i'll still read what Peterfile writes on the forum.
saying that, if it turns out peterfile has paedo glasses or a moustache. i'm going to report everything he types.
the courts clearly disagree with you
The courts were wrong.
.
The courts were wrong.
Oh, you're an expert in the law and child psychology/criminology?
saying that, if it turns out peterfile has paedo glasses or a moustache. i'm going to report everything he types.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/pedo.cgi
The saddest thing about the case is the number of people who had an opportunity to help him but for whatever reason didnt.
I'm not a robot with a comically shaped head, in case you were wondering. I suspect easygirl isn't, etc etc.
What an idiotic assumption re PF. I'm starting to think I'll go back to BikeMagic seeing as the sanity level in here seems to have fallen lower than BM of late....
[i]I'm not a robot with a comically shaped head[/i]
1 out of 2's not bad though 😉
I'm not a robot with a comically shaped head, in case you were wondering. I suspect easygirl isn't, etc etc.
What an idiotic assumption re PF. I'm starting to think I'll go back to BikeMagic seeing as the sanity level in here seems to have fallen lower than BM of late....
I think you might need to read it again and see what the [b]actual[/b] criticism of the username was, rather than what you imagined it was.
The courts were wrong.
Have you ever entertained the notion that it might in fact be [i]you[/i] who is wrong?
In my opinion, shoud never be released
I don't really see how the permanent incarceration of someone who is quite clearly severely mentally disturbed serves greater society. I think it would be more constructive to make every attempt to help treat this person, and to try to get them to integrate back into 'normal' society, in order that we may, as Humanity, all learn something that could help prevent such things occurring again. Treating someone who has committed inhumane acts, inhumanely, makes society itself inhumane.
Have you ever entertained the notion that it might in fact be you who is wrong?
Not really pal - venables has come out and entered straight back in to a life involving (amongst other things)paedophilia - On that basis the courts/system were wrong.
Treating someone who has committed inhumane acts, inhumanely, makes society itself inhumane.
Change the record FFS. It's alright having a lovely fluffy system based upon a "civilised society" as long as everyone in that society buys in to the same notion and agrees to bound by it's "civilised ways". I also accept there are going to be exceptions and that these should be dealt with in an exceptional way.
I take it you don't have kids of your own?
thx1138, I think you are trying to discuss the relative merits of rehabilitation with someone who thinks "justice" is the solution to crime.
I tend to lean towards the view that 10 year olds should not be locked up in a civilised country.
However I do believe that the event described in the link below could have been avoided because a mature civilised country would have the balls to hang adults who abuse and murder children.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/two-prisoners-held-after-child-torturer-killed-in-cell-8496795.html ][/url]
Not really pal - venables has come out and entered straight back in to a life involving (amongst other things)paedophilia
Care to voice your thoughts as to why that has happened? Do you not think it possible that Venables, already an extremely mentally disturbed child, was further brutalised by his time in custody, and that this has had a even greater detrimental effect on his mental state?
On that basis the courts/system were wrong.
Venables, although guilty of some extremely serious offences, has not murdered again. So could there be an argument, following your logic, that the courts/system have in fact been proven right?
Change the record FFS
Why, because it makes a different sound to yours?
It's alright having a lovely fluffy system based upon a "civilised society" as long as everyone in that society buys in to the same notion and agrees to bound by it's "civilised ways"
This supposes that all actors in such a society are of a pre-determined/agreed mental state; a consensual notion of 'normality'. Jon Venables was clearly, by this form of definition, not 'normal'. So, how should 'abnormality' be treated? By incarceration?
I take it you don't have kids of your own?
And what exactly does that have to do with this discussion? Are only parents entitled to an opinion?
thx1138, I think you are trying to discuss the relative merits of rehabilitation with someone who thinks "justice" is the solution to crime.
I think all sides of a debate should be heard, in order that we as a society become better informed and enlightened.
However I do believe that the event described in the link below could have been avoided because a mature civilised country would have the balls to hang adults who abuse and murder children.
Correct, in that the 2 people responsible for the murder would have probably already been hung.
RM.
I think all sides of a debate should be heard, in order that we as a society become better informed and enlightened.
I don't think anyone's opinion should be heard that differs from mine. That's the way to truly enlightened society. The sooner everyone just accepts this, the better
I don't think anyone's opinion should be heard that differs from mine. That's the way to truly enlightened society. The sooner everyone just accepts this, the better
This is so wrong.
It's my opinion that should be heard, not yours.
I don't think anyone's opinion should be heard that differs from mine. That's the way to truly enlightened society. The sooner everyone just accepts this, the better
😆
No kids eh 'thx'... Just as I thought. I've made my views clear, or as clear as am gonna do for now.
Now why don't you go give venables a cuddle, I reckon you'd be good together. 😉
No kids eh 'thx'... Just as I thought
Again; what has having/not having kids got to do with this at all?
See if you can answer that. I'm off for the weekend. I'll see how you got on, next week. Don't be afraid to show your working out, and use another piece of paper if you need to. Have fun.
I am
When you have kids you will know
i used to view child murders as tragic now I need to dry my eyes when I read of them. Numbers dad was interviews o. Radio 4 this week and I had to stop driving
As for blaming the system for brutalising him you would need to look past what he did before the system dealt with him. More likely it has failed to unbrutalising him tbh.
To be fist we could argue we never really tried
Although he is unlikely to have had a 'normal' life in custody, I very much doubt he would have been 'brutalised' - far too high profile, in my opinion / experience. Sadly, you'll always get folk baying for blood in cases like this, and to a degree, that's understandable, considering what happened, but here's the thing: we don't have the death sentence in the UK, so why bother with all the 'this is what should happen' nonsense ?
I think, realistically, that the best we can hope for is that whoever carried out risk assessments on him knew what they were doing.
i have 3 kids and I agree with thx
he is right when he says that being a parent does not make your opinion more or less valid
If Venables was brutalised before the murder, then it just makes him another victim. I don;t think locking up a kid was ever the answer.
Is it just me that thinks that thx1138 is the new elfin login?
I have 2 kids and agree with thx
Generally comments and opinions supporting vengeance and punitive justice are born out of fear and also ignorance of the issues.
Again; what has having/not having kids got to do with this at all?
Your opinion on the matter marks you out as a "non parent"
So he asked if you had kids, for clarification of what he presumed.
Nobody said that answering "no" means you have no right to an opinion, just that it partially explains the opinion that you have.
Some people who are parents will hold the same opinion as you, but not that many.
(I don't have kids, but I don't share your opinion)
Is it just me that thinks that thx1138 is the new elfin login?
No.
Generally comments and opinions supporting vengeance and punitive justice are born out of fear and also ignorance of the issues.
It would be equally valid (and just as unprovable) to say
"Generally comments about rehabilitation and cuddle therapy are born out of lack of guts to do whats required, and ignorance of the issues"
In keeping with recent news this week...
[i]No kids... No say...[/i]