I think the actions of jso actually make it harder for serious people to effect change. All they do is give the deniers another brush to tarnish them with on the old guilty by association. How can those who want to make serious change and policy do so without been seen to have given into these idiots actions
All they do is give the deniers another brush to tarnish them with on the old guilty by association. How can those who want to make serious change and policy do so without been seen to have given into these idiots actions
Very easily, they say they're doing it because of X or Y, they'll be things that were all there long before JSO. Protest is a show of emotion or raises the profile of a point but change happens through debate or study of the point. The protest doesn't undermine the study.
'idiots' says where you stand on JSO and I'm not saying this to change your mind at all, I'm just saying that they don't undermine the climate debate and the scientific knowledge etc - people who say that they do undermine it for them were thinking that way already. Or just not thinking.
TBH, the people who are “put off” most likely weren’t interested in engaging
So what audience is the stunt for then? Those that understand the climate threat don't need it, and those that do need to understand the message are most likely ignoring it.
So what audience is the stunt for then? Those that understand the climate threat don’t need it, and those that do need to understand the message are most likely ignoring it.
Fair point, and the long and the short of it is I don't think it's 'counter productive' more just adding to the general media 'noise' the great unwashed are subject to every day...
In fairness the outrage machine is sort of agnostic, they'll adopt whatever position gets more clicks and comments (with their given target audience), a small proportion of the coverage will actually touch on the issue and relay JSO's own statements, but the spin is always going to be pitched towards the audiences existing bias.
Like I said before though the opposing group has a marketing department, oil money and primetime ad spots booked already. I understand JSO's frustration leading them to these sort of protests. But yeah, ultimately it is just more noise.
They're a bit shit anyway aren't they?
Those that understand the climate threat don’t need it, and those that do need to understand the message are most likely ignoring it.
I expect there's a sliding scale of understanding and acting. Perhaps also they're hoping for a chain reaction effect.
And lets be honest for a moment, Stonehenge is a Victorian re-imagining of what a henge looked like.
Exactly my thinking. It's a cultural palimpsest. JSO just added another layer which I think is quite amusing.
Perhaps also they’re hoping for a chain reaction effect
Do you mean going bust 😀😀
^ Ha.. very good, maybe
("who funds you!?")
Back in 1999 there was a propsal to demolish stonehenge with explosives, to symbolise that the UK would be forward looking in the 21st Century rather than obsessing about the past.....................................
A person can be pro environmental causes and anti JSO’s methods
You're right, we should forget protest and just vote for a party that's pro-environment. How's that going, by the way ?
You’re right, we should forget protest and just vote for a party that’s pro-environment. How’s that going, by the way
Or - instead of making pointless protests that do more to harm than benefit the net zero progress, they could actually get jobs in the low carbon sphere. There is oodles of work going on just now in Engineering and Project management* just now where they would be able to make a constructive difference to our world in some small part. Might mean a little retraining &/ some effort but will facilitate much better returns in the long run.
I'm quite confident I'll achieve more CO2 reduction this year alone through my work projects than most of the JSO lot will achieve in their lifetimes inspiring others to change. It's a bit harder than throwing orange paint around though.
*used as one example as it's what I have knowledge of
Or – instead of making pointless protests that do more to harm than benefit the net zero progress, they could actually get jobs in the low carbon sphere. There is oodles of work going on just now in Engineering and Project management* just now where they would be able to make a constructive difference to our world in some small part. Might mean a little retraining &/ some effort but will facilitate much better returns in the long run.
Well done you for checking up on the CVs and capabilities of the JSO protestors in order to make a constructive suggestion.
Who said forget about protest?
You're right. There's always a strongly worded letter to the local newspaper. Or whatever other means of protest the comfortable middle classes deem acceptable.
For the public, there is a complete disconnect between the action and the message here. And the step from interrupting sporting and other heavily media covered events to stunts involving artworks and historic sites really isn’t going to help them, or draw anyone to their cause. You can ignore those making that point if you want of course, but the point isn’t “all protest is bad”, more “this protest is a bit shit, isn’t it”.
“this protest is a bit shit, isn’t it”
Because you say so. Got it.
Because you say so.
Yeah, pretty clear from my short posts that I was just voicing my own opinion. Which isn’t that we should “forget protest”, merely that this one seems ill thought out.
You’re right, we should forget protest and just vote for a party that’s pro-environment. How’s that going, by the way ?
Hey, I just said they could be .. didn't say it was right or rational. Their position on the environmental challenges we face would probably sit way above what they think of JSO. And I fully appreciate that JSO do what they do because politicians and business is doing so little, so late. I'm pro-protest, more power to the people.
How do the JSO folks get around? Do they just walk everywhere?
Also, I wonder if anyone has ever told them what their smartphones are made from?
For those saying they're a bit shit and could do better, what could/should they be doing? I mean, go to an oil refinery and attempt to mess with it and you risk industrial accidents, will be arrested fast whatever you do even if you get in, and possibly get no coverage unless something goes wrong and the services are called out. The guy who stopped traffic on the bridge was held in custody for 14 months then jailed for 3 years, hardly seems proportional does it?
Hold up Wimbledon or the TdF or chuck soup on a covered painting and no-one's hurt, you get loads of press and it's your right to protest.
Ok DrJ – give me one measurable benefit to the amount of Co2 in the atmosphere / our reliance on fossil fuels that has came from yesterdays’ stunt?
Seriously?
How do the JSO folks get around? Do they just walk everywhere?
Also, I wonder if anyone has ever told them what their smartphones are made from?
Too funny. So environmental protest isn't valid unless the protestors wear humanely trapped animal skins and communicate with low-carbon smoke signals.
How do the JSO folks get around? Do they just walk everywhere?
Also, I wonder if anyone has ever told them what their smartphones are made from?
A warm welcome to Mr Gotcha : )
How do the JSO folks get around? Do they just walk everywhere?
Also, I wonder if anyone has ever told them what their smartphones are made from?
I wonder if you've done any slight bit of research into their aims......
Relative to their methods, their aims are actually incredibly moderate.
The aims of Just Stop Oil include:
1. Convincing the British government to end new fossil fuel licensing and production using civil resistance, direct action, traffic obstruction, and vandalism.
2. Demanding investment in renewable energy and better thermal insulation for buildings.
3. Raising awareness and encouraging people to reduce the usage of oil-powered vehicles.
1. Convincing the British government to end new fossil fuel licensing and production using civil resistance, direct action, traffic obstruction, and vandalism.
2. Demanding investment in renewable energy and better thermal insulation for buildings.
Big fat failure then. There is no way on earth than any UK government is going to take a blind bit of notice of them when creating their policies and approaches.
Including actual vandalism is not great either is it really, not going to add to their cause.
thisisnotaspoonFree Member
I wonder if you’ve done any slight bit of research into their aims……Relative to their methods, their aims are actually incredibly moderate.
I know what their aim is, but all they seem to be doing is getting on peoples nerves and making their cause look stupid. Obviously I don't have a better alternative.
Still wonder how they travel.
DrJFull Member
Too funny. So environmental protest isn’t valid unless the protestors wear humanely trapped animal skins and communicate with low-carbon smoke signals.
Exactly this, although they'd have to give up their Macbooks, Starbucks and Netflix. The vegans in their ranks might not be too happy about the animal skins though, humanely trapped or not.
1. Convincing the British government to end new fossil fuel licensing and production using civil resistance, direct action, traffic obstruction, and vandalism.
2. Demanding investment in renewable energy and better thermal insulation for buildings.Big fat failure then. There is no way on earth than any UK government is going to take a blind bit of notice of them when creating their policies and approaches.
Erm........
Labour have committed to exactly that. No new licenses (and a 78% windfall tax on existing operations and ending investment allowances that reduce tax burdens), And GB-Energy in whatever watered down form it ends up taking.
Exactly this, although they’d have to give up their Macbooks, Starbucks and Netflix. The vegans in their ranks might not be too happy about the animal skins though, humanely trapped or not.
What have macbooks, starbucks and netflix got to do with this?
I think the actions of jso actually make it harder for serious people to effect change. All they do is give the deniers another brush to tarnish them with on the old guilty by association. How can those who want to make serious change and policy do so without been seen to have given into these idiots actions
This is where I'm at. Deniers fall into two categories - probably more if I put my mind to it - once you get past the bat shit mentalists. You've got those that deny because even though they know the truth it's financially better to put you head in the sand. You think either your business model for making money or your way of life is too impacted by the perceived changes needed it's just easier to think they don't exist. Second group are just the ignorant and uneducated. The sort of people who form their understanding of the world by reading the Daily Mail, social media memes and nothing more. The first group rub their hands with glee with the antics of GSO because it make the argument of the environmental lobby seem even more alien to the second group. To the slowest thinking of the general population, the people who we actually need onside, the inconvenient truth gets buried even deeper behind a layer of moral outrage.
Erm……..
Labour have committed to exactly that. No new licenses (and a 78% windfall tax on existing operations and ending investment allowances that reduce tax burdens), And GB-Energy in whatever watered down form it ends up taking.
And that was because of JSO shit? No, didn't think so. So what is the point of them again if Labour are already committing to what they want, surely they should just be out campaigning for Labour.
They’re a bit shit anyway aren’t they?
Ah, you’re thinking of JLS there
I see why you got to where you got. But actually i was talking about stone henge.
I drove passed once, they look a bit shit.
And that was because of JSO shit? No, didn’t think so.
Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt many people even knew how O&G licenses worked and that stopping the issuing of new ones was even an option until JSO started shouting about it from motorway gantries. And now it's in the likely winning party's manifesto.
So no Starmer isn't capitulating to Eco-Terrorists*. But those Eco-Terrorists have brought the issue and proposed solution to the attention of enough people that it's a vote winner.
*Great, now I've got that Rise Against song in my head for the rest of the afternoon.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4JuUOAsNWc
www.youtube.com/h4JuUOAsNWc
The guy who stopped traffic on the bridge was held in custody for 14 months then jailed for 3 years, hardly seems proportional does it?
Seems entirely appropriate to me. I wonder how much excess emissions this silly stunt generated, not to mention the thousands inconvenienced who presumably are their target audience.
I have never understood why anyone things direct action has any influence on those who make policy. Most are looking for an excuse to kick the can down the road to be someone else’s problem to solve. This just makes that course of action easier to follow
What have macbooks, starbucks and netflix got to do with this?
They are more things that environmental protesters are not allowed to have. It's the Law. Apparently.
I have never understood why anyone things direct action has any influence on those who make policy.
I recommend an elementary history book.
I drove passed once, they look a bit shit.
what were you expecting? Dancing girls? A light show?
I have never understood why anyone things direct action has any influence on those who make policy. Most are looking for an excuse to kick the can down the road to be someone else’s problem to solve. This just makes that course of action easier to follow.
I feel like I'm repeating myself.
BUT 2/3 of JSOs DEMANDS HAVE MADE IT INTO THE MANIFESTO OF A PARTY HEADING FOR AN ABSOLUTELY HUGE MAJORITY.
Seems like an effective outcome for a few years protesting.
I have never understood why anyone things direct action has any influence on those who make policy.
err…..I don’t even know where to start with this one tbh. Have you never read any history at all. Even the last hundred years or so has some pretty big examples.
I’m also with @joshvegas Stonehenge is just shit. A big pile of rocks. Whoop de ****ing do! JSO and those that are upset by agent Orange (cornstarch) are just a bit crap too. The former should’ve knocked the entire thing over so that the latter could all explode with rage. Thus killing a large number of climate deniers/those stuck in the past and helping to move us forward a bit.
Just going to lob this in.....
As a kid, then a teen and a young adult I heard of the horrors of the IRA bombings and put them firmly on the 'baddies' side of the equation. Their cause was by default assigned the same fate in young Convert's eyes too.
Fast forward 30 odd years, I've learnt a bit more (and admittedly got a bit older) and from this UK mainland resident's perspective I can now see their cause. I'd probably say I am pro a united Ireland.
I'm pretty sure I'd have got there a lot sooner if the IRA hadn't been murdering quite some many people. Now, you could say - my opinion didn't matter. But I reckon it did. Millions and millions of us were by default anti a united Ireland because of the IRA. If a voting public in the rest of the UK had been won over by words instead of blinded from reason by bombs it might have changed history.
I’m pretty sure I’d have got there a lot sooner if the IRA hadn’t been murdering quite some many people. Now, you could say – my opinion didn’t matter. But I reckon it did. Millions and millions of us were by default anti a united Ireland because of the IRA. If a voting public in the rest of the UK had been won over by words instead of blinded from reason by bombs it might have changed history.
I think you've got that a bit backwards. Without the IRA the issue would never have been on the agenda.
I just love a bit of counterfactual history
I'm awaiting them to deface houses of parliament with wet wipes to have the wet wipes also hit them in the face .
SUCKERS!
Before it goes even more sideways, JSO are not eco terrorists or fighting in a way like the IRA, they are not a terrorist organisation, and the one sensible thing they do is avoid anything that can be seen as an act of terrorism, that is a line they do not want to even come close too in this day and age!
