[Closed] this here Police sending threatening letters to innocent protestors

It's everyone's responsibility to ensure this doesn't happen, yet you're happy to hand your freedom back to them on a plate.

So the answer is attack McDonalds?

Right 😐

People peacefully disagreeing with being pushed (for no reason) being hit in the face (infront of media cameras) etc.

And how is that different to what happens on the student demos etc? 😕

Hora, I've bin to loads loads more demos in London than you have, and seen countless incidents where police have gone way beyond 'reasonable force'. In fact many incidents where police have in fact incited violence by suddenly attacking otherwise peaceful demonstrators. So I know the police do deliberately stir up trouble, I've seen it with my own eyes.

Agent provocateurs: Known fact. I've seen 'demonstrators' later laughing and joking with coppers, sat having coffees round the back of some police vayns.

Rubber bullets: I was at a demo in the 90s, CJB I think. Big one down Whitehall. I'd nipped off for a pee round some backstreet, managed to sneak through police lines. Coming back into the fray, I passed an open vayn with 3 or 4 coppers sat in it, checking over baton round guns. So rubber bullets have bin deployed in mainland Britain before, just that police jolly well have not bin open and honest about it.

As I tried to take a photo, the door of the vayn was slammed shut and other coppers 'escorted' me away...

I was responding Hora's point about perfectly reasonable demonstrators having the crap kicked out of them by the police.

I've seen it happen on numerous demos I've been on
The evidence points to the fact that it happened on the CA demo as well.

Elfin is.
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Hora

So the answer is attack McDonalds?

Right

No, the answer is to protest peacefully when you disagree with the policies of the state.
Make your voice heard, add to the numbers.
Denounce violence and refuse to be an apologist for those who instigate it on either side.

Democracy, use it or lose it. 🙂

Whassamatter Hora? Any version of the 'Truth' other than the one you've chosen to swallow a bit too much for you? Too much strain for your brain?

You stay safely tucked away in front of your Telly. Don't venture out lest the Truth be a bit much for you, eh?

How Hora sees himself:

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I'm off this thread has lost the plot

Aye me too. Elfin, I'm amazed you still rabbit on after the insensitive comment you made on brants thread.

There was a plot?

Has anyone seen the plot?

Aye me too. Elfin, I'm amazed you still rabbit on after the insensitive comment you made on brants thread.

It wasn't intended as insensitive, as you would have realised if you had the capacity to think for yourself, and I removed it as soon as I realised it might be misinterpreted (which it was, by a few thick idiots). It was 'thinking out loud' which was ill-judged. I admitted my mistake and made efforts to rectify the situation.

I stand by those comments, but admit I made a mistake in posting them on such a sensitive thread. You, and one or two others, chose to use it as an opportunity to attack me. I'd say that was more insensitive than my original 'transgression', tbh. Oh look you're bringing it up now cos you're backed into a corner and have no intelligent argument to make.

Carry on letting others do your thinking for you Hora. It's probbly a lot easier for you.

TBH, I'm not completely against the letters themselves.

In a similar vein, why not send a letter to Ken Dodd before every gig reminding him to pay tax on his earnings and put it in the bank rather than stuffing it all in a suitcase in his attic?

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I'm amazed you still rabbit on after the insensitive comment you made on brants thread.

WTF has that got to do with anything? I can't see how a post on one topic can prevent someone posting on another? If thats the case Hora, maybe you should refrain from Dildo comments as made previously in this thread after your holier than thou rant elsewhere....

by a few thick idiots

You are an utter cock. You don't even have the sensitivity to keep quiet. You actually believe you were right.

Carry on letting others do your thinking for you Hora

holier than thou rant

Anyway- carry on as you are. It seems some people just can't disengage.

You are an utter cock. You don't even have the sensitivity to keep quiet. You actually believe you were right.

Hora, please. Resorting to abuse isn't going to make you right.

Let's leave it at that. I refrained from further comment on that thread cos I din't see the point in continuing when I knew I was in the wrong.

Try to appreciate that I made a mistake yet admitted to it and attempted to make amends, instead of using this as the pathetic justification for some personal vendetta.

I'm more than happy to discuss issues in a civil manner, no problem with a bit of 'banter' even, but if you're going to sink to personal abuse than I have no more time for you.

You don't even have the sensitivity to keep quiet

It was you that brought it up. You made an accusation which I responded to. It's a shame all you can now do is descend into abusiveness.

I've no interest in him or his opinion.

So why comment on it then? 😕 Why bring stuff up from the past all the time, like you have some sort of grudge against me?

It seems some people just can't disengage.

You're unbelievable... 😆

X

End of.

In addition, elfin seems to follow me around posting on almost every topic I do

I think you'll find he just posts on every topic...

well as i now work at a uni Ive had the chance to see the start of the demo from here

and all i saw was a lot of students who really are pissed off at the government privatising education in this country,
they know its got nothing to do with defecit reduction and everything to do with right wing ideology and worshiping the american way of doing things

a lot of them were very angry, I wouldnt be surprised if it did kick off later and I cant say I blame them

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Kimbers you work at UoL? We'll have to meet up for a STW drinks soon.

Keep us informed on events. I may toddle down later once I've done me stuffs here.

My granddad fought for the right not go get a letter in the post telling you not to break the law did he?

😀 I love this suggestion that what criminals need is a letter from the police telling them not to engage in criminality ! Perhaps they should extend this strategy, since it's such a good idea, to all known criminals ..... and watch the crime rate plummet !!

It's pretty clear that the aim of writing letters to individuals is to intimidate otherwise law-abiding people not to attend because the police have 'their eye on them. It's a fairly standard sort of strategy that you would expect in a country which is a police state and which intimidates and frightens its people not to protest against the government. It has no place in the UK.

Likewise the threat of rubber bullets and the injuries associated with them - it's a clear message to parents, if not to the young people concerned, not to attend as they might get hurt.

Of course none of this will make an iota of difference to the "rent-a-mob" who I am reliably informed by a copper on here are the only people behind any violence. A letter warning them not to misbehave will obviously have no effect on them, nor will the threat of rubber bullets - why would it ?

The sort of society in which the police threatens those who wish to protest might the sort of society which people like Z-11 want, but I certainly don't. And it is fundamentally hostile to British values.

Now now boys

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The sort of society in which the police threatens those who wish to protest might the sort of society which people like Z-11 want, but I certainly don't. And it is fundamentally hostile to British values.

The sort of society where people feel free to commit random and extreme acts of violence and damage property without fear of punishment, due to the protection of anonymity within a crowd of peaceful protesters is the thing which is fundamentally hostile to British values Ernie!

Will the police be writing letters to all the MPs reminding them not to defraud the taxpayer

How about letters to the police reminding them to stay within the law? - no kettling for example to say nothing of reminding them to keep their ID on their uniforms as they are supposed to.

check out this one z11 heres a vid of a police officer murdering an obviously dangerous protester!

The sort of society where people feel free to commit random and extreme acts of violence and damage property without fear of punishment, due to the protection of anonymity within a crowd of peaceful protesters is the thing which is fundamentally hostile to British values Ernie!

And it's also a society which we don't have, you daft fantasist 🙂

Yes I know that having posters on street corners saying "Big Brother Is Watching You" would be fine by you because only those who were up to no good would have anything to worry about, law-abiding citizens would be fine, but most normal people don't want to live in your Orwellian world.

well i think the game is about to begin. Kettles forming, people covering their faces, a few little 'sacrifical' groups moving in opposite directions.

I'm quite proud of our undergraduates actually. It takes inventiveness and balls to go up against the police and government.

Rusty Spanner - Member
In a similar vein, why not send a letter to Ken Dodd before every gig reminding him to pay tax on his earnings and put it in the bank rather than stuffing it all in a suitcase in his attic?

Well I'm stood on Whitehall an nothing is going on

TJ will be encouraged to know we are all displaying our numerals

check out this one z11 heres a vid of a police officer murdering an obviously dangerous protester!

i) I thought that according to the Grauniad, Tomlinson wasn't a protester, he was a sweet and innocent newspaper setter trying to make his way home 🙄

ii) Murder? Are you sure - can you support an allegation of murder? can't see anybody's been charged with [u]murder[/u] 🙄

Seems you're applying a double standard here - the sweet and innocent protesters who were arrested are innocent, and shouldn't get letters because they've never been prosecuted, but the evil policeman is a murderer, even though he has not been prosecuted for that offence 😉

no kettling for example to say nothing of reminding them to keep their ID on their uniforms as they are supposed to.

Kettling is not illegal, nor is it a legal requirement to wear their ID - more double standards! You constantly complain that people are being punished for not breaking the law, but expect to be able to complain about the police doing nothing wrong.

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Z11, kettling can be illegal, and was judged as such in the case of the G20 protests.

[url= http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/957.html ]Scroll to the bottom[/url]

Kato - Member

Well I'm stood on Whitehall an nothing is going on

TJ will be encouraged to know we are all displaying our numerals

Nice one - good luck. The plod ( can I say that) on the ground I feel sympathy for - their bosses far less so

Zulu - they are supposed to wear ID at all times

“The policy of the Met Police is very clear. The public have the right to be able to identify any uniformed police officer and so badges should be worn at all times. We support the Commissioner's decision to hold officers to account when they purposely conceal their identity.”

The Home Office also criticised officers who fail to wear their epaulettes, insisting the “public has a right to be able to identify” them.

A Home Office spokesman said: “We welcome the Commissioner's statement that all uniformed police officers should be identifiable at all times by their shoulder identification numbers, and wholly agree that the public has a right to be able to identify any uniformed officers while performing their duties.”

A Yard spokesman said: “Where provided, epaulettes with identifying letters and numerals or insignia of rank must be worn and must be correct and visible at all times.

“It is the responsibility of all police officers, and their supervisors, to ensure this policy is followed.”

Reports and photos of plain clothed officers bundling people from the protest for no reason...

kettling [u]can[/u] be illegal

Thats not the same thing as kettling [u]is[/u] illegal though, is it?

Driving a car [u]can[/u] be illegal - doesn't mean we're not allowed to do it on a daily basis though, does it?

they are [u]supposed [/u]to wear ID at all times

all uniformed police officers [u]should [/u] be identifiable at all times

to ensure this [u]policy[/u] is followed.

Again, thats not the same thing, is it now TJ? its not [u]illegal[/u] for them not to, its just against force policy, well, whoop de doo. We're allowed to do anything that the law does not prohibit us from doing.

Double Standards!

Good luck, Kato, and my thanks to you and all your colleagues for the work you do.

Also, beer sometime.....! Needs to be done!

It wasn't intended as insensitive, as you would have realised if you had the capacity to think for yourself, and I removed it as soon as I realised it might be misinterpreted (which it was, by a few thick idiots). It was 'thinking out loud' which was ill-judged. I admitted my mistake and made efforts to rectify the situation.

Hang on, that's not even remotely true. If it weren't for the "few thick idiots" (there was more than a few of us) you would have left that (totally out of order and insensitive) post where it was without a hint of conscience. There was no apology or admittance of being wrong (until now) just a blame on everyone else for misinterpreting. Lacking humility.

Dont understand your rant read the beginning of the opening letter.

: "It is in the public and your own interest that you do not involve yourself in any type of criminal or antisocial behaviour. We have a responsibility to deliver a safe protest which protects residents, tourists, commuters, protesters and the wider community. Should you do so we will at the earliest opportunity arrest and place you before the court."

Think the above is fair

There was no apology or admittance of being wrong

he did immediately on the thread in question - deleted the comment and apologised iirc

deleted the comment and apologised iirc

He said he stood by the comments on this very thread!

Hang on, that's not even remotely true. If it weren't for the "few thick idiots" (there was more than a few of us) you would have left that (totally out of order and insensitive) post where it was without a hint of conscience.

You're wrong, but carry on believing what you want about a person you don't even know.

Anyway, as I've said; done and dusted. Move on; I have.

Well the media coverage seems to have been about the policing of the protest, the reasons for the protest barely seem to have got a mention, so its a victory for the politicians.

And we now know that though it was possible to set up camp in Tahrir Square when the Egyptian police state was at it's worst, it isn't possible to do that in the UK because our police state is so much more effecient, and has better PR.

The UK spring is on permanent hold...

And we now know that though it was possible to set up camp in Tahrir Square when the Egyptian police state was at it's worst, it isn't possible to do that in the UK because our police state is so much more effecient, and has better PR.

The UK spring is on permanent hold...

Edited because while I don't agree with the above, upon rereading my reply seemed sarkier than required!

I see things as they are, not as They would want you to believe them to be.