[Closed] This football chant racism business, really?

You live down under so it therefore follows that your head is up your arse ..not meaning in anyway to be remotely racist or derogatory to our antipodean cousins..

[quote=kennyp ]I'm not expert on physiology but spend even a little time watching the Olympics and it become fairly obvious that black people are generally better runners than whites (other races are available) whereas white people are better swimmers than black. There will be exceptions, but as a general 'stereotype" it's obviously true.

Or maybe it's just a stereotype. Already discussed, but you can't think of a single other reason why most (all?) Olympic swimmers are white?

Same goes for other aspects of life. A classical music orchestra will be comprised almost exclusively of European and Far Eastern musicians, as will the audience.

Presumably that's also because of physiological differences in the audience?

Think what food in the UK would be like if we hadn't had folk from other cultures bring us all their varied delicious cuisines.

Good point - because the French are clearly physiologically superior at cooking.

Mike ..you still haven't answered my question ..so let me simplify things for you ..
If a black person makes a comment to another black person that would be deemed racist if said to that black person by a white person ..is that still a racist comment ?
A very simple yes or no will suffice .
Thanks !

If a black person makes a comment to another black person that would be deemed racist if said to that black person by a white person ..is that still a racist comment ?

[quote=weeksy ]

How about making it a more welcoming place for families? Would you take a 5 or 6 year old to see their first game if they were going to listen to swearing for 90 minutes

You must walk down different roads to me - I'm guessing roads with lots of football supporters going to or from a match. I'm really struggling to think of having ever been walking down a road and hearing lots of people chanting or shouting swear words, let alone continuously every time I walk down the road.

There does seem to be a lot of defending the indefensible goes on regarding football.

Personally I'd be quite happy with that chant directed at me 🙂

For the people asking how to explain the difficulties of diversity at sprint / distance running lineups at Olympic events - below are some interesting points of view. It's genetics, not race that get you a ticket to compete. If you have the right genetic makeup then physiology, training, investment, coaching etc come into play....

http://run-down.com/guests/je_black_athletes_p2.php

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2008/12/white_men_cant_jump.html

I can't wait to read about the science behind football chants and if / how they alter match outcome...

hodgynd - Member 
Mike ..you still haven't answered my question ..so let me simplify things for you ..
If a black person makes a comment to another black person that would be deemed racist if said to that black person by a white person ..is that still a racist comment ?
A very simple yes or no will suffice .
Thanks !

I would have thought the simple answer is 'possibly' or even 'probably'!

ps I am not Mike...

There were even people claiming he wasn't making the GB team due to racism. No, it was because he was nowhere near good enough.

Or it could be that he wasn't in with the right crowd in horse circles. Having had a family member compete at international level for UK she left because the incompetent were being preferred due to who they know.

So, Is it ok if I make up a song about jambalaya having a tiny penis?

Be my guest

Cheers Mike ..I simplified the question for you ..but if you care to look back ..
Thanks for the yes or no answer ..dont think I could have handled another riddle ..
Yes I will concede that my question has nothing to do with how the original thread started ..but then again the whole thread has moved away from that into a question of what denotes racism..
If you don't mind ..Im not going to engage with you any further for no other reason than the fact that I find you terribly dull ..sorry !

When the bedwetters start piddling their pants with indignation about irrelevant, harmless nonsense like this, it actually just detracts from genuine racism and bigotry, of which unfortunately theres still plenty. Proper racism is nasty and malicious. This is neither of those things.

I think a lot of this particular storm in a teacup boils down to some people just having it drawn to their attention that people say things on football terraces that might cause someone to choke on their sauvignon blanc if repeated at a dinner party

I get this totally, but this kind of background noise low level stereotyping keeps racists happy and gives them the confirmation bias they crave.
I know this seems like a storm in a teacup but I'd rather have that if it continues to stamp out bigotry than not.

Skeete was a Pro rider he didn’t make the team GB no but didn’t he want to represent Barbados anyway?

He never made it to world championship level no but guess what, he wasn’t white which is the point as according to CM only white people compete in equestrian.

Dear everyone

Could you please, please, please stop singing songs implying that I've got an absolutely enormous nob? its demeaning

Thanks

Romelu

kennyp » I'm not expert on physiology but spend even a little time watching the Olympics and it become fairly obvious that black people are generally better runners than whites (other races are available) whereas white people are better swimmers than black. There will be exceptions, but as a general 'stereotype" it's obviously true.

Logic fail, you might say the best runners are black but you cannot generalise that black people are better runners. That's part of the great genetic diversity within any population.

For those who like to brush it all under the carpet maybe have a read

Kick It Out saw a rise in its
reporting statistics for the
2016/17 season, with an overall
increase of 16.7% from the
previous campaign.
The reports were received from
xtures in the Premier League, EFL,
non-league football, grassroots as well
as discrimination which took place on
social media.
The most notable rise came in the
professional game, where reports
rose by 59% from the previous season.
Nearly half of reports related to
race (48%), with 21% relating to
HBT (Homophobic, Biphobic and
Transphobic) discrimination with 17%
faith related. The organisation also
received several reports relating to
gender and disability discrimination.

I believe the premier league clubs are governed by collective responsibility, ie responsible for their fans behaviour, and that they all sign up to KROOF rules.

If that is the case, then Man U have no choice other than to investigate, at least show they are doing something.

So it's not really about whether we deem it racist or not.

You must walk down different roads to me - I'm guessing roads with lots of football supporters going to or from a match. I'm really struggling to think of having ever been walking down a road and hearing lots of people chanting or shouting swear words, let alone continuously every time I walk down the road.

There does seem to be a lot of defending the indefensible goes on regarding football.

My point wasn't that chanting and singing swear words were part of every day life, but certainly swearing is, you go to a pub, people swear, hell, you hear swearing in the supermarket, you even hear it in PG rated movies, we were watching the 1970s version of Cannonball Run with Burt Reynolds last night and heared "shit" at least 3 times.
You can't avoid the fact that in normal walks of life people swear, it's just how it is.

I'm also wondering why all sprinters are black, if it's not for the fact sprinters are genetically better when they're black. None of the bedwetters seem to have answered it yet. Surely in schools etc all the kids get equal chances on sports days etc and if a white kid was a sprinting god then he'd get noticed by someone. But as seen in the pics, the 100m is massively dominated by black riders, why is that then Stw?

It has been answered more than once.

My 5 year old watched the athletics and noted that the whole line up for the sprints were black athletes.

Racist innit....the whiteys have been excluded!

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So apart from world class whataboutery going on to avoid some of the awkward stuff do you actually have a point?
Yes people also swear, they do it in pubs but that is separate from the throwing crude casual racism about there. I'm sure we can agree on that

Perhaps Carling Opta could do some research on knob size among premiership players and publish the results, allowing fans to base their chants on the player's genuine centile performance, rather than just some flimsy assumptions.

There is no problem which can't be solved by rigorous data-collection.

Which reminds me of a joke I heard many moons ago.

A Explorer was push through into deepest darkest Africa when he came out onto a riverbank and saw a large Black man washing in the river. He was completely astounded by the mans enormous chopper, the like of which he’d never seen before. He asked if he could take a photo of the amazing appendage and after much surprise and confusion, the man asked what all the fuss was about....as didn’t a white mans penis shrink in cold water!

Dear everyone

Could you please, please, please stop singing songs implying that I've got an absolutely enormous nob? its demeaning

Thanks

Romelu

So it’s presumably ok to replace enormous penis with, bigger lips, a wider nose, or curlier hair without being racist, no?

jonnyboi - Member 

So it’s presumably ok to replace enormous penis with, bigger lips, a wider nose, or curlier hair without being racist, no?

Oh dear. That is probably a racist comment because it could be construed that by your implication you are stereotyping that those attributes are both negative and specific to black people.

Oh dear. That is probably a racist comment because it could be construed that by your implication you are stereotyping that those attributes are both negative and specific to black people.

Also because a certain brand of woman will objectify them to the the point that having a big dong is the defining characteristic of black men.

The same with a certain brand of creepy male who goes out their way to bang Asian women, because.... theyre apparently subservient and have small pussies.

Then this feeds all the othet racists who assume youre dating him or her because they have a massive cock or because theyre meek.

Most of the righties on here never have to deal with that.

The same with a certain brand of creepy male who goes out their way to bang Asian women, because.... theyre apparently subservient and have small pussies.

Good grief!

Anyway, back to actual racism....to notice a particular race have particularly athletic attributes is not racist. To suggest they are good runners, cos they are always nicking handbags and running off...is!

Simples really!

kennyp » I'm not expert on physiology but spend even a little time watching the Olympics and it become fairly obvious that black people are generally better runners than whites (other races are available) whereas white people are better swimmers than black.

Yes, you are obviously not an expert, well done.

Neither am I, but I've read a fair bit by some of them, and you'd be hard pressed to find a single one of them who agrees with you.

I'm assuming you're of the mind (à la Michael Gove) that experts are not to be trusted, and that we should all base our unfounded preconceptions on baseless stereotypes.

I'll let you into a secret... Not all black people are good at running.

It is not reasonable to say any particular race have particular athletic attributes.

[quote=weeksy ]My point wasn't that chanting and singing swear words were part of every day life, but certainly swearing is, you go to a pub, people swear, hell, you hear swearing in the supermarket

Again I think you must go to different supermarkets to me. Sure people swear - I have been known to swear (though I did once get a comment from somebody that I must be really angry when I swore as they'd never heard me swear before). But if you accept people don't chant and sing swear words elsewhere then your point is a bit strawmanny.

Because the original point was:

[quote=weeksy ]

How about making it a more welcoming place for families? Would you take a 5 or 6 year old to see their first game if they were going to listen to swearing for 90 minutes

and no I wouldn't take a 5yo to a pub where everybody was swearing continuously - though somehow I manage to go to the pub with a group who don't do that. But just walking down the road, around the supermarket etc., even my experience of going to the pub is a totally different atmosphere in those terms to what you get at a typical football match.

Good grief!

You find that offensive? 😆 oh the ironic lolz.

Are you a creepy white male attempting to Asian women 20 years your younger?

Great match on tv at the moment ..Sheffield Wed.v Sheffield Utd.
Blackman in goal for United ..
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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/156204930@N03/37028814570/ ]20170924_144930[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/156204930@N03/ ]Neil Hodgson[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
4-2 to Utd at the moment ..

Is the racism claim based on Romelu Lukaku being being black or Belgian?

And when he makes a challenge, will it always now be described as a two footed tackle?

I'm assuming you're of the mind (à la Michael Gove) that experts are not to be trusted, and that we should all base our unfounded preconceptions on baseless stereotypes.

Not at all. I trust lots of experts, people who know a lot more about many subjects than I do. However there are some subjects, economics is a prime example, where experts disagree with one another, therefore to the layman (like you or i) we need to base our opinions on something more than the experts, for example in how to vote. Also, baseless stereotypes is something of an oxymoron, the majority of stereotypes do have some basis, even is that basis has been exaggerated over time.

Or maybe it's just a stereotype. Already discussed, but you can't think of a single other reason why most (all?) Olympic swimmers are white?

I guess I can think of several possible reasons, but by far and away the most obvious reason most/all Olympic swimmers are white is surely that white people are genetically predisposed to be better swimmers than black people. And vice versa for running. There may well be other factors, but Occam's razor and all that.

Presumably that's also because of physiological differences in the audience?

Why would you think that? Far more likely to be a cultural difference between the peoples.

Logic fail, you might say the best runners are black but you cannot generalise that black people are better runners.

Mmm, don't agree. See Occam's razor above. Not, I grant you, a logical certainty, but it is a logical likelihood.

Which can quickly become an excuse to tarnish individuals with the idea that they have a propensity to criminality.

So you are using some banter about musical tastes between friends to suggest that black people (I presume that's who you mean) are more prone to committing crime? Slightly worrying, if you don't mind me saying so.

Which is likely cultural, not genetic.

Possibly, although it could be argued that cultural differences are derived from genetic differences.

I'm going to finish by saying though, that surely it doesn't matter if the differences between people are racial, cultural or whatever, for me the crucial thing is that the differences exist, which is why we have such a richly varied, interesting and diverse world.

Possibly, although it could be argued that cultural differences are derived from genetic differences

So, someone has found a a genetic marker for the aporeciation of Brahms, Mozart, Dvorak, Beethoven and The Village People?

Have caucasion peoples genes evolved massively since the 18th centuty, is that why classical music isnt popular any longer?

So you are using some banter about musical tastes between friends to suggest that black people (I presume that's who you mean) are more prone to committing crime? Slightly worrying, if you don't mind me saying so.

Well crime data often shows that to be the case, that is very different to saying that criminality is caused by simply being black.

Lots of idiots conflating correlation with causation on here.

The word for that thing you're talking about with "black people being better runners" isn't racism. You're talking eugenics.

Logic fail, you might say the best runners are black but you cannot generalise that black people are better runners.

Mmm, don't agree. See Occam's razor above. Not, I grant you, a logical certainty, but it is a logical likelihood.

obvious reason most/all Olympic swimmers are white is surely that white people are genetically predisposed to be better swimmers than black people

Maybe caucasians have a higher access to ****ing swimming pools?

[quote=kennyp ]I guess I can think of several possible reasons, but by far and away the most obvious reason most/all Olympic swimmers are white is surely that white people are genetically predisposed to be better swimmers than black people.

I presume there are also genetic reasons behind white people being better cyclists, better rowers, better mountain climbers, better tennis players etc. (despite black people being better runners). It's by far and away the most obvious reason, Occam's razor and all that.

I presume there are also genetic reasons behind white people being better cyclists, better rowers, better mountain climbers, better tennis players etc. (despite black people being better runners). It's by far and away the most obvious reason, Occam's razor and all that.

You can't compare them to something like the 100m sprint when there will be enough of both black and white people in the sport.

I presume there are also genetic reasons behind white people being better cyclists, better rowers, better mountain climbers, better tennis players etc. (despite black people being better runners). It's by far and away the most obvious reason, Occam's razor and all that.

I don't know to be honest but am happy to take your word for it.

Lots of idiots conflating correlation with causation on here.

Sorry, but I don't debate with people who resort to calling people they don't agree with 'idiots'.

Okay, explain the logic of that for me.

Occam's razor does rather explain it.

Couple of beers, 70 degrees what’s not to like? . No time to learn any new songs no time to read the thread although some say I should

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