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Clearly this person has never tried jumping up and down in a moving train/plane.
what about 'on', which would be a better comparison
IdleJohn: that was my point. (Edit: ok)
what about 'on', which would be a better comparison
No, that would a much [i]worse[/i] comparison because if you are on top of a moving train you are rushing through air that it stationary relative to your motion.
Anyway, quite a lot of common FE'er "logic" and claims in this video, including most of the ones I've mentioned already.
Provided here, not for the debunks (which are fairly superficial) but more so you can enjoy their "logic" without having to sit through two hour Eric Dubay or jeranism marathons and completely losing your marbles. 😀
Yeah but why doesn't that happen when you are on the surface of the world?No, that would a much worse comparison because if you are on top of a moving train you are rushing through air that it stationary relative to your motion.
Yeah but why doesn't that happen when you are on the surface of the world?
The same reason it doesn't happen inside the moving train - all the air is moving along with you.
The same reason it doesn't happen inside the moving train - all the air is moving along with you.
Yeah but how come it moves with you on the world but not on a train?
The same reason that it is much harder to stir your cup of tea with a needle than a spoon!
The air in the atmosphere is moving along with the Earth as it spins. So for us, standing on a spinning Earth, that air is still, even though the surface of the Earth is moving at ~1000 mph (depending where you are).
The train is pushing through that still air. It's the needle, only a few billion times smaller, it's not big enough to get all the air on Earth to start moving along with it! It can only shove against a minuscule part of it, which can just get out of the way.
Interesting observation on how the likes of Fb encourages this sort of madness:
https://boingboing.net/2017/11/15/filter-bubbles-r-us.html
Before you know it
must...stop...watching...
Graham, I appreciate Poe's Law is in effect here but I believe CM is employing a debating technique known as [s]trolling[/s] devil's advocate. He knows as well as you do, he's positing the flat Earthers' position.
So why do none of the flat earthers just rent/borrow/buy a boat or plane, fly to the 'ice rim', get some photos and then show the sheeple the error of their spherical ways?
I mean, I know why, but how do they explain not actually having any real proof of the earth being flat?
Because the earth's rim/wall of ice is protected by the UN and your boat will be sunk - jeez it's so simple. 🙄
Where exactly is this in a flat Earth model?
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Graham, I appreciate Poe's Law is in effect here...
You're probably right Cougar, but it's very hard to tell with conspiracy types, and even if he is just on a wind up, I guarantee someone else out there will be reading it thinking "That's a very good point actually"
Where exactly is this in a flat Earth model?
North pole? In the middle of course, do pay attention. 🙂
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That's the South pole isn't it? The north isn't solid enough to build something like that if I'm not mistaken? So on your map it's in the ice wall. Your map is upside down obviously.
[i]So why do none of the flat earthers just rent/borrow/buy a boat or plane, fly to the 'ice rim', get some photos[/i]
Also, I'd imagine, cos photos aren't* evidence... cos you know cameras, lenses, distortion, etc.
[sorry, typo edited!]
Ah right enough, it's from [url= http://hors-frontieres.fr/2014/05/ ]this page[/url] I read the wrong caption, the pic [i]below[/i] it is North Pole.
Well if it is south then it must be somewhere on the ice wall where no one is allowed to go apart from Freemason sciencfraudists and the special ops military guys that keep the secret.
Obviously there isn't actually an actual South Pole since we've already learned that compasses don't really point north. 😆
The air in the atmosphere is moving along with the Earth as it spins. So for us, standing on a spinning Earth, that air is still, even though the surface of the Earth is moving at ~1000 mph (depending where you are).The train is pushing through that still air. It's the needle, only a few billion times smaller, it's not big enough to get all the air on Earth to start moving along with it! It can only shove against a minuscule part of it, which can just get out of the way.
So how come the air above the earth moves at the same speed as the earth but the air above the train does not move at the same speed as the train?
Graham, I appreciate Poe's Law is in effect here but I believe CM is employing a debating technique known as [trolling] devil's advocate. He knows as well as you do, he's positing the flat Earthers' position.
I'm not positing any position regarding the shape of the Earth.
So how come the air above the earth moves at the same speed as the earth but the air above the train does not move at the same speed as the train?
Wait, shouldn't you first be asking why the air 'above' Earth doesn't float off into space?
Wait, shouldn't you first be asking why the air 'above' Earth doesn't float off into space?
No, I imagine you know the answer to that. But it doesn't help answer the question I was asking
But it doesn't help answer the question I was asking
Well, it really does. Newtonian mechanics.
So how come the air above the earth moves at the same speed as the earth but the air above the train does not move at the same speed as the train?
A few mistaken assumptions in your question.
The atmosphere is not all moving at the same speed as the Earth.
Air is not just 'above' the train. The train travels through air. It also drags some of the (closest) air along with it. So some of the air around the train will be also moving at near the same speed as the train.
So the air above the train does move with the train?
These threads are starting to remind me of the engineers mug in the secret santa thread
So the air above the train does move with the train?
Gah. Trolled.
No, not at all. Just want you to explain it. How come you can stand on a train and feel wind but not feel the same when you stand on the earth
The atmosphere is not all moving at the same speed as the Earth
So a bit higher its slower? The same as the train.?
So the air above the train does move with the train?
Gah. Trolled.No, not at all. Just want you to explain it. How come you can stand on a train and feel wind but not feel the same when you stand on the earth
Again - air is not just 'above' the train. The train travels through air. Not through a vacuum (ie outer space) It also drags some of the (closest) air along with it. So some of the air around the train will be also moving at near the same speed as the train. Earth, meanwhile, travels through a vacuum and while rotating drags the atmosphere with it while gravity keeps the atmosphere 'stuck' to the planet.
Roughly speaking!
[quote=GrahamS ]You're probably right Cougar, but it's very hard to tell with conspiracy types, and even if he is just on a wind up, I guarantee someone else out there will be reading it thinking "That's a very good point actually"
I don't think Charlie is on a wind up here at all. I reckon he probably knows the answers to the questions he's asking, but what he's doing here is getting you to explain properly the answers to some of the fundamental flat earthers points about how things don't make sense, rather than just going "because it is".
Anyway, regarding the air moving thing, the air above the earth moves at the same speed as the earth because frictional forces acting on the bottom of the air layer drag it along. It's only slowed down by the frictional force from the layer above moving slower. But at the top of the atmosphere there is no resistance to slow the air down, so it will be accelerated by the layer below. Working back down, even if you started with all the air at rest, it would all eventually be accelerated up to the speed of the earth because of the lack of any resistance at the top edge to stop it doing so.
With the train, as suggested the boundary layer is dragged along at the speed of the train, but the difference with the earth is that there is lots of earth and other things not moving at the speed of the train where the boundary layer of air is stationary - this serves to slow down even air quite near the train. Of course it's all far more complex than this with turbulent effects, but clearly totally different to the air moving with the earth.
How did I do Charlie? Any obvious holes in that?
How did I do Charlie? Any obvious holes in that?
Absolutely, perfectly correct for the 1st paragraph!
In the second, you appear to agree with Malvernrider that the atmosphere moves with the earth? The third seems entirely reasonable, but start at the surface of the train and it is not so different to the earth
Charlie I have a question for you.
In a plane when it accellerates, you feel the thrust pushing you back in your seat, how come the air inside the plane doesn't all rush to the back too?
Charlie I have a question for you.
In a plane when it accellerates, you feel the thrust pushing you back in your seat, how come the air inside the plane doesn't all rush to the back too?
There must be the teeniest of tiny pressure increases at the back end of the plane during acceleration. The air won't need to move much though, so there won't be a noticeable 'rush' of air.
edit: Jenesuispascharlie, but whatever.
try putting a helium balloon in a car. When you accelerate it moves to the front, brake it moves to the back
That's all well and good, but does a lorry full of roosting pigeons weigh the same as a lorry full of flying pigeons?
Depends if it's two different lorries etc surely? Likelihood is a lorry doesn't weigh the same as a(nother) lorry, pigeons or no.
but does a lorry full of roosting pigeons weigh the same as a lorry full of flying pigeons?
What is the additional weight of the oven needed to roost the pigeons? Or is it present in the other lorry but not switched on?
I think the answer is; the weight would change every time the pigeons flapped
Some-one actually worked this out didn't they?
Depends how specific you are about the term 'weigh' but if you mean overall reaction force at the road/lorry interface, then on average 'yes'. Assuming there are enough pigeons.
Nice article about "Awake Dating" a dating site for conspiracy theorists.
Some quotes:
"I need to take this desire into a more spiritual realm. Then it might happen and hopefully we can live out the next ten years before the global extinction together."
...
and the other thing is being aware that there is a global genocide taking place to depopulate the earth."
...
both are avowed anti-vaxxers—believing that vaccinating children against common diseases like measles actually engenders the spread of disease
Should we really be encouraging these people to breed?! 😀
In a plane when it accellerates, you feel the thrust pushing you back in your seat, how come the air inside the plane doesn't all rush to the back too?
I expect it does. But there isn't that much of it so it probably doesn't increase much.
However, a train is much longer than a plane. If you find one without doors between the carriages you can feel a breeze towards the front of the train as it brakes into a station.
Anyway, regarding the air moving thing, the air above the earth moves at the same speed as the earth because frictional forces acting on the bottom of the air layer drag it along. It's only slowed down by the frictional force from the layer above moving slower. But at the top of the atmosphere there is no resistance to slow the air down, so it will be accelerated by the layer below.
Then there are jet streams moving at 2-300mph...
[quote=CountZero ]Then there are jet streams moving at 2-300mph...
Which is not only significantly slower than the speed of the earth surface at the equator relative to the centre of the earth, it's orders of magnitude slower than the speed of the earth around the sun, and another order of magnitude slower than the speed of the solar system around the centre of the galaxy.
Which is not only significantly slower than the speed of the earth surface at the equator relative to the centre of the earth, it's orders of magnitude slower than the speed of the earth around the sun, and another order of magnitude slower than the speed of the solar system around the centre of the galaxy.
Well, we don't need to worry about anything outside of our atmosphere really, do we?
somewhatslightlydazed - Member
...That's a point - airlines like to fly on a great circle as its the shortest point between any two places on a globe. If the earth was flat, their routes would actually be larges curves. So they'd be wasting a lot of fuel.Are the airlines in on this conspiracy?
Of course they are. That's why they are laying all those chemtrails.
really, all they need to do is go straight up, past the bit which is moving at the seed of the earth, then come back down when the world has turned.
This guy does a nice line in amusing flat earth debunking using basic geometry and logic. (Warning: swearing)
If nothing else, read the comments for an insight into the FE mindset. 😀