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What about the Moon?Is it flat too?
Yes. We can see the front.
and these people can vote
But not for people that will take any notice of them. Except in a referendum!
and these people can vote
Which reinforces my view that there should be compulsory IQ testing for everyone who wishes to vote. The higher your IQ, the more votes you get.
If that was in place we would not be leaving Europe, Trump would not be President and the Scottish independence referendum would have been a much more decisive No.
I recommend "Orphan Red"I lasted maybe 30 seconds before her voice made me want to kill kittens
Crack on then
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I'm grateful to GrahamS for his knowledge of this subject. 😀
You're very welcome BD.
Chatting to these folk was a bit of a personal hobby for me for a while.
I found them absolutely fascinating.
And as I say, it can [i]sometimes[/i] be an interesting learning experience, like when you have to really think about something while trying to explain it to an inquisitive child. 😆
[quote=GrahamS ]I recommend "Orphan Red" as she is one that can actually pose questions that might make you scratch your head for a bit. (Ignore her annoying unique "ditzy" presenting style - she's not nearly as dim as she pretends).
Sorry - I'm finding it utterly impossible to ignore that.
[quote=GrahamS ]Their explanation for night and day is interesting* too.
Usually something along the lines of the Sun being much, much closer than science states, actually inside the "dome" just above the clouds, as "proven" by pictures like this:
It moves in large circles above the disc and, for some unfathomable reason, is very directional like a desk lamp.
* (i.e. completely barking)
What exactly is their explanation for sunrise and sunset? I'm struggling to see how even directionality of the sun can explain it disappearing below a non-existent horizon.
actually a quick google found me this:
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun
please tell me that their explanation for sunset is "everything appears lower and eventually drops below the horizon the further it is" 😆
perchypanther - MemberWhat about the Moon?
Is it flat too?
I only ask because i've actually seen it and looks kinda round to me.
I might be wrong though.
Its both. flat means its only one dimensional. round is to describe its shape in that one dimension ie a circle. Spherical is what it is not. Honestly perchy. Tsk tsk
[i]Summary
As the sun descends it will create a tangent into the horizon. The perspective lines nearly merge, causing the receding body to appear to collapse in on itself. Next the light of the receding sun is dimmed to blackness by a non-transparent atmosphere.[/i]
See. Obv innit.
The arguments presented by flat earthers remind me of the increasing problem people had with the Earth-centric view of the universe. They could build mechanical models of the planets of the solar system that replicated the observations but as bodies like the moons of Jupiter were discovered/added it became increasingly difficult to describe their orbits around the Earth. Moving to a helio-centric model sorted things out.
Want to ride the ice rim. Bah, reality.
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From my observations they spend a good portion of their time accusing each other of being government shills or plants, put there by the man to discredit the truth.
I've got to ask, even if the spherical Earth 'model' were a giant conspiracy to hide the truth,
Why?
What would the governments, "they" or indeed anyone hope to gain by lying to the world about its true nature? What massive problem are we trying to cover up? What's the point?
For the oil, obviously!
oh sorry, wrong conspiracy, brb
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy explains all.
I'm using the word "explains" as loosely as Flat Earther use "proof", obviously.
Well, from aracer's link to craziness -
"There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone. The purpose of NASA is not to 'hide the shape of the earth' or 'trick people into thinking it's round' or anything of the sort.
There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space."
That website is like the "official" FES Wiki and yet just reads like the ramblings of a single blithering idiot. Very puzzling.
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Full_Moon_is_Impossible_in_Round_Earth_Theory
I mean, that's awesome. Probably worth using as an example of a strawman argument.
Trumping myself with https://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset. Amazing work people.
please tell me that their explanation for sunset is "everything appears lower and eventually drops below the horizon the further it is"
Yep - they regular cite [i]"perspective"[/i] (often in quite bizarre terms) along with the idea that the apparent perspective horizon always appears straight ahead, so it must come up to your eye level.
Why?
Depends who you ask: the Biblical types mumble on about a satanic Freemason plot to undermine the word of God. I mean look, Malvern Rider's diagram clearly has a triangle with a sun at the top. A very clear reference to the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence ]Eye of Providence[/url], a masonic symbol. etc etc
The more general conspiracy nut types tend to say something about Sheeple being kept in the dark by scientific fraud. A lie that grew and grew and must be protected by the establishment. And of course stealing public money for funding for NASA, space flight, satellites none of which really exists obviously.
That website is like the "official" FES Wiki and yet just reads like the ramblings of a single blithering idiot. Very puzzling.
It should be noted that many veteran flatties will claim that the Flat Earth Society is a shill, set up to discredit people telling the [i]real[/i] truth.
The Shadow Object sounds like a baddie from a 60s issue of Superman.
A lie that grew and grew and must be protected by the establishment.
I suppose that explains why the 'lie' persists today, but not really why it started in the first place.
That wiki site is genuinely genius, think of the heroic efforts you'd need to go through to try to invent reasons for why perfectly normal (in a globe world model) things occur and you need to explain away. Fascinating.
I suppose that explains why the 'lie' persists today, but not really why it started in the first place.
Apparently they got it wrong at the start and by the time they realised there was already too much built on top of it.
You know, in much the same way that all medicine is still based balancing the four bodily humors or the way we still accept that only materials rich in phlogiston will burn. 😆
[quote=nickc ]Fascinating.
Told you. Before you know it you will be watching two hour YouTube videos in slack-jawed wonderment.
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Why would governments not want you to know the earth is round?
And why wouldn't a flat earth disc collapse into a sphere?
And why wouldn't a flat earth disc collapse into a sphere?
Because flatter is awesomer, while 'sphere' is, er, evil-er?
And why wouldn't a flat earth disc collapse into a sphere?
Don't try and apply reason or logic to anything they claim. Gravity is "just a theory" and doesn't exist either - things fall due to "density and buoyancy" apparently. No further explanation required, just "density and buoyancy". So the disc collapsing into a sphere is just nonsense and you must either be a retard or a shill.
Told you. Before you know it you will be watching two hour YouTube videos in slack-jawed wonderment.
I can't get over the sun as laser beam fallacy, which is the fundamentals of their problems. It kind a makes me want to vomit, so no, I refuse to watch any further and retract my intention to join them.
I've wasted hours of my life trying to reason and discuss their explanations with them but in a similar way to the WTC conspiracy stuff on the other thread, it's ultimately pointless. They've made their mind up and desperately grasp at anything to make their model work and if they can't the subject gets changed or they resort to ad hominem waffle. Neither are you starting from the same point with what is generally regarded as logic, reason or what can be accepted as 'evidence' or 'empirical'.
I think the best one I saw was to 'prove' that the earth was flat, a guy poured a jug of water over a basket ball and demonstrated that the water doesn't stick to it like the shills say the oceans stick to the globe.
did you see this?
https://www.indy100.com/article/flat-earth-conspiracy-theorist-spirit-level-plane-prove-curvature-7746121
did you see this?
Oh, don't. I've got work to do...must resist...must resist...
There's a meme that gets posted up making some nonsense point about the sun or something but it's taken at relatively high altitude with the plane's wing in the foreground and the curvature of the horizon clearly visible. That bit gets totally ignore in this photo though as it's 'proving' the nonsense about the sun so the horizon is now apparently irrelevant. Like I said, until you can level with them about what is logic and reason (and you can't), you won't get anywhere.
From Facebook just now,
http://wspa.com/2017/11/09/flat-earthers-from-around-the-world-descend-upon-nc-for-convention/
a guy poured a jug of water over a basket ball and demonstrated that the water doesn't stick to it like the shills say the oceans stick to the globe.
I'd love to have witnessed his prior 'Eureka!' moment that inspired the basketball demonstration.
(Bathtub, NC)
'Marybeth! This darn water's gitin chilly. Pass me a hot jug, y'hear?'
'Git y'own darn jug, ya fat lard'
'Awwwww, don' be like that. N'after I done fixedya porch up geeewd yesday?'
'I guess...'
'Well. Guessin's over now howabout that jug o'hot WATER?
(Marybeth sighs)
'Right theyn, If I give you the juuug, then can I getsum peace?
'Yip'
'Promise?'
'Well okaythen'
(Hands jug)
(Sounds of splashing and loud sighs of deep contentment)
'Wait, WHUHT?' (Single splash)
'Oh hell Jacob, NOW what? I was WATCHIN' QueueVeeCeeeee-uh! Dayyyng!'
'You aint guna believe this Marybeth'
'You better HOPE I do'. (Silence.........)
(Longer silence)
(Finally) ... ' Believe whut?'
'OKay pinback you ears like you mean it Mar'beth,
'
(Bored sighs) 'um...keh?'
'Lookit. I just done poured that water over my gut. Mkeh?
(Now curious) 'mm,keh?'
'And, although my gut aint *perfectly* round, it's fair stickin up out of this tub like a hill or a DOME, or somethin'. Giddit?'
'Uuuuh?? 🙄 '. 'And?'
'And so it's not, like, uh, UNlike, sorta, uh (hear me out here)... like a[b] small 'planet' (if there was such things, and there AIN'T)[/b]
'Jacob Marley this better had be GEWD'
'This ain't just GEWD, Embeth Marley! This here is EXPLOSIVE. Lookit...'
(Pours jug of water over his rotund protruding belly, hand shaking with excitement')
(Voice breaks high)'Seethat!!!!??'
'See WHUT? Jacob? I see a fat old fool in a tub playing witha jug'.
'OK just imagine that the belly is a GLOBE, know, like whatthem NASAI/LLUMINATI f***s would have us believe?
'Mkeh?'
'And imagine the water is, uh, water?'
'Mkeh?'
'So if the Earth was a ... 'GLOBE' (aind it AINT, calm down Marybeth, I'm jes cogitatin'...)'
'You're sick, Jacob'
'Nu-uh, hear me out, what I'm saying is IF it WAS (and it AIN'T!) a 'GLOBE', then look what happens when you pour SEA over a GLOBE!!...'
(Again pours water over belly. Water runs off)
Whut? Jacob? I may not be the perkiest possum in the pack, BUT - I **KNOW** that water ain't oceans. It's a jug of water, ya retaaard! (Laughs)
'But think for a minute, M'beth? Oceans is made from whut?'
(Fakes stupidity) 'Uhhh, waaaater? Duh-uh.'
(Thinks)
'Yip! And if the Lizardoids is (and they ain't) CORRECT about the Earth being a 'GLOBE' ( and it ain't) - then look what happens if'n ya try pouring WATER (like raw Oceans, giddit?) on a 'GLOBE' (it's really jes' mah belly still)'!! 'Lookit!!!'
(Again pours water over belly)
'Jacob!! It don't stick!'
BAM! 'What I THOUGHT!. (Thinks NASA) Oooooh, those DIRTY, LYIN, CHEATIN MOTHER*****!
'Dayum'
'Yip'
'We gotta, like, get this OUT there Jacob?? Holy shit, darlin', I'm sorry I was mad at yewww.... xxx I'm so PROUD of yewwww!! 😀 😀 xxx'
'Really weren't nothin, I was jes' chasing navel hair an and then I gots to cogitatin'! (shakes head). Whew.
'Whew'
(Gaze at each other)
(In unison) - 'This changes ... EVERthang, and everythang!'
You sir, have won my internet for today.
Yeah they like the wet ball thing. Seen loads of variations of this:
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Which demonstrates a fairly fundamental misunderstanding of what gravity is and how relative motion works.
Also smoke:
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Clearly this person has never tried jumping up and down in a moving train/plane.
🙄
tjagain - Member
did you see this?
I watched the video. Felt sad for him. You can't argue with that much stupid.
Thing is, I suppose, apart from going around embarrassing yourself in such a way, there's nothing in life to lose from such belief. Life must be pretty easy being so dense really.
The website that aracer linked to is brilliant.
This is my favorite bit
As a passenger on an aircraft, how is it I can see the curvature of the earth?
Quite simply you cannot. It is widely stated you would need to be at a height of at least 40,000 ft to get even a hint of curvature if earth were round.
But elsewhere on the site it states you can prove it is flat by holding a straight edge up to horizon.
...there's nothing in life to lose from such belief.
I think I'd disagree with that. Some people can be quite easily influenced, especially by easily accessible 'evidence' and 'proof'. The more people spouting this nonsense, the more people that will come across it and be perhaps persuaded by it etc. The conference that kicked this thread off costs money to travel to and attend. So, as with a lot of these cults, you'll have cynical liars taking advantage their 'flock' and raking in the money of the gullible.
Where does that stop? Arguably comparable with the 'climate change deniers' who influence certain politicians. < winces - I'm sure there's a whole other thread to shout that one out >
This is my favorite bit
As a passenger on an aircraft, how is it I can see the curvature of the earth?
Quite simply you cannot. It is widely stated you would need to be at a height of at least 40,000 ft to get even a hint of curvature if earth were round.But elsewhere on the site it states you can prove it is flat by holding a straight edge up to horizon.
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I heard that the flat earth society has members all across the globe!
Gah my YouTube feed is full of flat earth stuff again now.
Ah well.
This guy does some amusing debunks, but I like this video purely for the conspiracy guy spraying vinegar about to dissolve the chemtrails:
😯
Edit : Got the wrong end of the stick! 🙄