[Closed] The Tube is planning for driverless trains

As the article says, Central, Victoria and Jubilee line trains already run ATO so drivers on those lines are paid £40k+ just to sit there and open and close the doors. DLR is fully automated and works fine.

*Pulls up a comfy wingback.*

It's the way forward.

I wonder what the ratio "human" accident occurance to "automated driver" accident occurance is.

I thought the Jubilee Lines doors opened automatically rather than "driver initiated"

Of course my thoughts are all subjective and not based on any facts whatsoeverlike.

DLR is fully automated and works fine.

It's not 'fully automated'. Requires a Passenger Service Agent to ensure safety an ting. And when the wonderful automatic system has a hiccup, which happens very frequently, the PSA's have to then manually operate the train.

drivers on those lines are paid £40k+ just to sit there and open and close the doors

Oh, you've done the job and you know this then, do you?

No, thought not.

*Pulls up a comfy wingback.*

Got to go out soon Flashy; be a good chap and keep the pot warm for us won't you? ta.

Are these the guys who were able to secure a 5% salary increase recently, pushing their earings up in the region of 50k pa?

Extrapolating, I don't see why ALL trains can't be driverless. Why only tubes? All they can do is accelerate and brake.

It will be a lot more difficult, but I believe one of the great technological advances of the 21st century will be driverless cars. Imagine just being able to drive to the top of a hill, then send your car back down to meet you at the bottom.

Maybe we should encourage more women to be train drivers... it's not like they need to park the trains...

Surely we should be able to include pilots in this too, after all pilots don't do anything either, except when there is an emergency... 😕

The existing automated lines do not run like this all the time - the drivers regularly have to take control.

The automated system runs during "normal" conditions, but when there is any change from these, control is returned to the drivers. The most common reason for this is low-adhesion conditions on the rails for the overground sections (rain, leaves on the line, etc.). I used to be involved in developing some of the hardware/software which was part of the decision-making process in handing back manual control.

Are these the guys who were able to secure a 5% salary increase recently, pushing their earings up in the region of 50k pa?

I thought it was £60k? No, £70k? £80k? £Some other vastly inflated made-up figure that the right-wing media claim?

No?

No.

No what?
No 50k or no 5% salary increase?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23993740-tube-driver-pay-to-top-pound-50000.do

£52k ACTUALLY ELFIN! Ridonkulous!!

Just, no, Don.

" The new generation of trains will "prepare themselves for service - even to the extent of arriving from depots unaided, perhaps eventually operating in certain areas without staff on board"

But:

driverless trains and station staff cuts "would leave passengers stranded in tunnels with no means of evacuation" and would turn the platforms and stations into a "paradise" for muggers and vandals.

Hmmm...

Ahhh the "leaves on the line" thread apears..

Today we stopped at a red light, only for the driver to pass through it on red.. Is this part of the manual handing back scenario?

If you ask me, oh you didn't oh well, all trains should be automated, maight make the fekin things run on time.

Ok, now I've said it.

"sits back with coffee and krispykreamedoughnut in hand"

Just, no, Don.

All trains should have a driver, and they should be paid what they can agree with their employers.
But I think the systems managing the trains should be improved to ensure running on time 100%.

they cant come soon enough...

£52k ACTUALLY ELFIN! Ridonkulous!!

Thats a LOT of wedge for driving a train..

Please let's not remind the right w(h)ingers that some scummy working class prole train drivers earn quite a bit more than they do. It got them into rather an excited froth the last time. 🙂

So when everyone's job is automated, and the remaining three or four jobs that can't be are so oversubscribed that they only have to pay peanuts due to supply and demand (capitalism, innit) what are we all going to do then? Those of us that aren't sure rich, that is... Will it be a utopia? Or the end?

v8ninety - lol
its obvious, they will offshore the work.
when I say they I mean the Chinese 🙂

At some point surely everything will be automated.

At the moment its difficult to automate jobs that require thinking but it cant be too far away.

What happens then we the world be perfect and we'll all have infinite leisure time or will we all be on the dole.

Which means we could ride our bikes longer.. or play with our willies (more).

has nobody seen Wall-E? drinking my dinner out of a cup whilst floating around on hover chairs... bring it on!

I was replaced by a machine some 25 years ago, cheese has never been the same since.

Ohhh yeah, he of the space ship controlling everything cos' humans get in the way??

Brill that.

At some point surely everything will be automated.

my posts are

Elfins seems to be on a rather early Sinclair with Tourettes and a few glitches

I wish I had used one that had a full keboard

If/when it happens I wonder if the drivers will ask themeselves why so many people cheer at the thought of them losing their jobs?

can't the automate footballers? they earn too much.

automate anyone who earns more than me and anyone i dont like.

I feel sorry for the Bus Drivers, they should be on the same money. More actually because they have to steer and spot idiot cyclists.

Bob Crow would look a bit silly if he priced them out of their jobs.

automate anyone who [s]earns more than me and anyone i dont like[/s] is overpaid and goes on strike at the drop of a hat.

Fixed

Why is it we don't have any sympathy for them?

<whispers.....I earn more than a Tube driver>

More actually because they have to steer and spot idiot cyclists.

tails - Member
> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23993740-tube-driver-pay-to-top-pound-50000.do

£52k ACTUALLY ELFIN! Ridonkulous!!

Did you read the article? Lots of 'worst' case scenario calculations hence language like:

Tube drivers are [b]set to[/b] earn £52,000-a-year in basic pay under an inflation-busting deal - double the annual average wage.

Unions have secured a four-year deal which [b]could see[/b] train drivers take home a total of £52,300 a year by 2015, an increase of £10,000.

For the following three years annual increases will be based on the Retail Price Index (RPI) - [b]currently running at five per cent[/b] - plus 0.5 per cent.

It means that [b]if inflation stays high[/b] Tube pay will increase by 20 per cent over the four years.

Then, buried (as always) in the last paragraph:

[Union leaders have always been against a multi-year deal but took the decision to lock into the RPI-linked deal now because ministers want future pay increases to be linked instead with the lower Consumer Price Index (CPI).

So bottom line, blame the tories. Whoop!

I think they should carry on employing the tube drivers but allocate them none driving duties.

I'd recommend that three tube drivers are posted on each tube platform to remind cockneys of their obligations.

"Do NOT make eye contact"
"Keep your iMusic players on"
"Look miserable"
etc.

Many would argue that these suggestions are superfluous but every little helps I always find.

Further down the line (sic) we could employ tube drivers to keep an eye on everyone by watching them through carefully modified TV screens.

There is no choice but to automate.

Levels of service and quality will be vastly improved and the grossly inflated wages for doing unskilled work can be put towards better trains, advanced infrastructure and facilities.

scu98rkr - Member
At some point surely everything will be automated.

At the moment its difficult to automate jobs that require thinking but it cant be too far away.

What happens then we the world be perfect and we'll all have infinite leisure time or will we all be on the dole.

That's what "they" said in the fifties, what happened?

That's what "they" said in the fifties, what happened?

Elfin. The comment about stations becoming lawless was by bob crow. That well known impartial observer of the railways.

I think the Pay should be proportiante to the level of responsibility - ergo £52K for having the responsibility for the safety of several hundred passengers seems fair - obviously the trade off is the possibility of being to blame for several hundred deaths when it all goes tits up.

I'd rather have a driver/operator paid a "high wage" - sat there doing nowt 90% of the time but trained to deal with emergencies, rather than blindly trusting in technology, which does on occasion fail...

Is £52K too much? maybe I don't drive a train (I do ride in them on occasion), it's more than I earn but then if I have a Bad day at the office the odds of a death occuring are much less than they are for a Train driver.

In my business the term SQEQ (Suitably Qualified and Experienced Personnel) Pops up very often, I'd imagine that term or one very similar is applicable to a £52K train driver, Control and Safety systems are only as good as the Designers make them, they seldom learn through experience, and only ever deal with emergencies which were in the original Specification, when something outside their scope occurs they lack the imagination to get thigs right....

I'd much rather have a Human involved in the decision making process if possible...

Bob Crow would look a bit silly if he priced them out of their jobs.

The trains will be eventually be automated no matter what. Even if the drivers were earning £25,000. I bet the people staffing the ticket offices are nt earning as much as the drivers and they are still being replaced.

Granted it might take a couple more years before it becomes economical to replace them but they'd still be replaced.

To me it makes sense for the tube drivers might as well get as money they can before they are replaced.

Generally its much better if you can get as much money as soon as possible.

Ie 50,000 in one year is probably worth £75,000 over three years or something like that.

This is because you can put the money straight into a mortgage or savings therefore avoid interest charges.

Plus there is always the possibility of getting another job in the other two years. Therefore you might earn £100,000 in total over the three years.

And then if your earning £25,000 in London your probably renting. If your earning £50,000 you might be able to buy. If you manage to pay off a mortgage before they automate the trains your'll likely be fine no matter what.

Therefore im not convinced those who accept a drop in their pay to allow their company to continue trading are doing the right thing. If they need to be paid less, it is likely company is going to try and close down and move abroad at some point no matter.

So you might as well get as much money out of them as quickly as possible and save it before trying to move on to something else.

The PROBLEM is the people at the top often understand this kind of reasoning instinctively. The people at the bottom tend to think well if I help the company a little now it will help me later, which is perfectly normal reasoning for a human social situations. But the company is nt a person and doesnt abide by these rules.

Nice post cookeaa, pretty much agree with that.

I'd much rather have a Human involved in the decision making process if possible...

Unfortunately, when humans are involved, mistakes happen.

I'd much rather have a Human involved in the decision making process if possible...

Oh I don't know, I think I'd prefer google driving my car to some of the local mini-cab drivers.