[Closed] the thread for negative views about remembrance

[i]you can keep quoting people more intelligent than yourself to bolster your argument if you like. Would you like me to go and find some to support my thoughts?[/i]

Find some people more intelligent than you? Not exactly going to take all night is it?

You're the one who brought up the idea that we should be valuing patriotism. You did it without really thinking it through, perhaps, as noted, because this current internet persona hasn't quite bedded in yet.

Who knows.

If you deny it you won't have to argue the case as everyone on this forum will see straight through you.

I see what you're doing there. Tell you what, you've backed me right into a corner now - where I can't hide behind my keyboard anymore. I'm well and truly stuffed.

However, no mocking at all. Provocation? Yes, for sure - it's a thread for dissenters to air their views. You're still not explaining why you're so upset about it though. But, don't worry, there's no need to answer.

I won't. Nite.

Crikey, i've got better things to do than argue with you and your inexhaustable collection of pseudo intellectual quotes all night lol.

Which ones were those, then. Just curious, like. I can think of the few who joined the Nazis to fight against the Allies, but I'm really struggling to think of any conflicts where British troops have fought to limit the freedom of oppressed people.

Apart from our several hundred years of colonialism you mean?

Anyone wonder why Iran might be a bit paranoid about being attacked?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran

[i]I'm oot.[/i]

Then:

[i]Crikey, i've got better things to do than argue with you and your inexhaustable collection of pseudo intellectual quotes all night lol.[/i]

So one can only presume that you actually haven't got anything better to do...

LOL.

This thread really does lower the tone of stw forum. It serves no purpose and really needs pulling.

[i]It serves no purpose[/i]

Um, STW?

The whole bloody place isn't exactly a paragon of mental productivity is it?

It serves no purpose and really needs pulling.

+1

it's like the days of pointless big s hitter arguments, ban 'em for making the forum a negative and unwelcoming place to new comers.

You lot make TJ and Elfin seen like rather fey poets!

This thread really does lower the tone of stw forum. It serves no purpose and really needs pulling.

Why?

This thread is what's great about stw.

Which ones were those, then. Just curious, like. I can think of the few who joined the Nazis to fight against the Allies, but I'm really struggling to think of any conflicts where British troops have fought to limit the freedom of oppressed people.

There are quite a few historically. Have a look at this wiki page:

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_British_Army ]History of the British Army[/url]

It's important because it allows people to say things that otherwise would seem to provoke people to ...shall we say extreme grumpiness...

It allows people to get what they think out in the open in a relatively safe way.

This thread really does lower the tone of stw forum. It serves no purpose and really needs pulling

You lot make TJ and Elfin seen like rather fey poets!

Mr [s]Yard[/s]Tazzy- you do seen excessively given to histrionics recently. is everything ok? (genuine question)

seems like an invasion of patriot ultras in the last hour or so-- determined to close down something they disagree with....how noble, if you have nothing to add, go look on the threads that are more your level..

cheers junky, nice to see you being a smug Charlie uniform .....again

Woo, tazzy, I know it's a cold Sunday but no need to be so miserable. And easy with the ad hominems. (Unless its an in joke between you)

Let's show how much we love freedom by silencing/banning people who don't agree with us. 🙄

tazzy why did you even open this thread, pretty obvious what it was about and that discussion might be 'lively' no? It's actually been pretty level-headed IMO, apart from a load of right-wing flag wavers calling for people to be beaten up, or made to shut up for daring not to tow the correct nationalistic tone as approved by The Sun.

I come from a long line of pacifists, no-one in my family has ever fought (apart from possibly an ancestor who came over with William the Conqueror) but I think of my grandfather who was a medial orderly in North Africa and other places during WWII. He never talked about what he saw, but you can imagine.

So no, I don't wear a poppy. I don't want to remember British soldiers in particular, I want to remember the poor sods of any nation who died in war, military or civilian.

Okay, own up - which one of you [url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/remembrance-day-skateboarding-devil-arrested-1430812 ]pulled this stunt[/url]? 😈

Pretty sure I've seen this cross-dressing skater a few times in Brizzle.

The ****.

I actually agree with Darcy. It's the whole point of forums. It's like downtown abbey. If you don't like it, there's always homeland on the other side. 😛

An emotive subject that has brought out strong feelings in all of us..

Quite why it managed to stay civilised all day and then turned sour in the evening I couldn't say.. alcohol perhaps.. people coming home from an afternoon in the boozer..?

I'm off now.. going on holiday in the morning and need ma beauty sleep..I'll leave you all with a final thought..

[img] [/img]

Was a good op with a interesting if not questioning point of view,alas has gone down hill rapid .l'm out

5 pages of sh#t

From noteeth's article...

As he was bundled into a police car, officers had to forcefully remove several people at the parade, who were shouting "death's too good for you".

You have to laugh really...

Where you going on holiday yunki?

I'm sure we could argue about that! 😆

I'm really sorry to say this but the arguments used and indeed points of view espoused by you igrf, Nukeproofriding and even bloodynora are evidence of the lost meaning of Remembrance. The whole point of it is that we remember the waste and the sacrifice of lives in war regardless of nationality - it was conceived to be as far removed from patriotism as it could be and a recognition that patriotism was part of the problem. Part of this is evidenced by the soldier of unknown nationality "known only unto God" who lies buried in the tomb of the unknown soldier... Unfortunately it would appear that with you those who sought to change the meaning of Remembrance Day for their own ends have succeeded.

Ironically, police were then forced to shield the offender, as a small group of men threatened to attack him.

As he was bundled into a police car, officers had to forcefully remove several people at the parade, who were shouting "death's too good for you".

Ray Turton, 68, added: "The police dragged him through the crowd and tried to rip his mask off.

"He put up a lot of resistance and they had to use quite some force to restrain him. People were shouting 'rip his head off'."

Good to see the correct patriotic fervour on display there. Shame the police were there to stop him getting lynched eh?

You have to laugh really...

that was russell brand on the skates !

an invasion of patriot ultras

There goes good old Uncle Joe Rudebwoy again.

Just because he doesn't like other people's opinions they are dismissed as this, or trolls, or whatever the clique are using dismiss dissenting views today.

Too trite, too lazy - are we heading for a virtual show-trial followed by ten years 'correctional education' in the virtual gulag. Again.

Even Marx admitted that the proleteriat might have to be told what to do at the start (dictatorship of the proleteriat I think he called it). Lenin took this very literally, Stalin even more so. The first time anyone relaxed the ideological stanglehold enough to actually find out how the people felt about their lot under communism...... they pretty much all said 'no thanks'.

How is life in the PFJ, or the Judean People's Front, or the Popular Front for Judea - or whatever talking shop is currently in vogue?

Totally agree with and respect the OP's sentiment of supplying a place for debate away from the original thread of remembrance itself.
Those calling for it to be closed should really reconsider as they'd be the first to complain if this debate was forced over to that thread.
My personal opinion is one of respect for remembrance day as a time to remember those lost in war. For me, the politics behind the wars are for another day. However, I can understand that for some people the two are inseparable and thank the op for starting an alternate thread appropriate for those discussions.

wayniac - Member
5 pages of sh#t

POSTED 3 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Yes, and you think it can't get any worse and JY posts on it.

tazzy why did you even open this thread

I was hoping to see some nice balanced open discussion and honest appreciation of another's view point, rather than two very entrenched and dogmatic ideologies talking at each other without actively listening, or at least trying to see it from another angle as a way of learning and at least sense testing your own beliefs.

I now it's a cliché, but just now and then it's worth walking that mile in someone else's shoes before gobbing off. Tying seeing what you type from the angle of someone who has had their friends die in their arms or disappear in pink mist, then and just then, you may understand why they feel a little sensitive. Just because you have the right to free speech does not mean you have to be an insensitive p..K about it(not aimed at you grum, just a general observation)

Just because he doesn't like other people's opinions they are dismissed as this, or trolls, or whatever the clique are using dismiss dissenting views today.

Whereas when you don't like other people's opinions you make irrelevant digs about Communist dictators?

Classy...

Youve completely & utterly missed the point about why I find your comment about trained killers insensitive..

Go back, read what Ive written & try again..

Its very easy to take comments out of context & twist them but hey Ive an idea why dont you try actually explaining why your comment about trained killers isnt insensitive nor inappropriate without resorting to clever wordplay otherwise known as cut & paste..

Go back, read what Ive written & try again..

I did go back through your stuff. All I got was whingey proxy threats about how I'd be dealt with. Looks like we'll have to just (disrespectfully) disagree.

Just because you have the right to free speech does not mean you have to be an insensitive

[i]I was hoping to see some nice balanced open discussion and honest appreciation of another's view point, rather than two very entrenched and dogmatic ideologies talking at each other without actively listening, or at least trying to see it from another angle as a way of learning and at least sense testing your own beliefs.[/i]

I think for the most part it has been exactly this.

We are on STW, there are personality issues as you recognise in your last sentence. It's gone the way that most of these things do and has degenerated into pettiness, myself included.

It's a forum where debate can occur, and for the most part, debate does occur.

It's a sensitive subject that encourages people to have a say, to take a side and to grumble out loud, and it's a positive, even when it ends in grumpiness.

danny h -i think your'e getting a bit mixed up, it was an observation i made regarding this thread that you can check if you wish, marx and his ideas would be better on a new thread --more than happy to go there, but it does require a lot of reading and thought -- be warned

The words of harry patch are close to a marxian view--

An emotive subject that has brought out strong feelings in all of us

I think it's a good thing to have brought up, tbh.

My late grandfather (a Royal Artillery officer of nearly three decades' service & a Burma veteran) once said that for all he'd seen and done, he sometimes wished he'd been a priest. He [i]despised[/i] the glorification of war.

Personally, I'll always remember the sacrifice of those who knew their likely fate, and pressed on anyway. Among 'em my great-uncle, Captain Noteeth of the Somerset LI, who was killed during the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Jupiter_(1944) ]bitter fighting near Caen[/url] & who told his cousin (who was serving with Monty's command) that he knew he wouldn't survive the day, so desperate was the battle. West country farm lads going in against SS Panzer divisions - and my great-uncle no doubt thinking of his young wife back in Somerset, pregnant with a child he would never see.

To them all.

Oh, and the snarky 'trained killers' remark is so disingenuous; far more people join the Services in rôles where killing is most definitely not on the agenda.

There ain't no passengers in a fighting unit, you're all there to get the fighting done and if necessary you will pick up a weapon and join the fray (on pain of a charge under Queens Regulations).

Every soldier has to pass his BFT and shooting test every year be he an infantryman, a driver in the logistics corps or a PO in the Galley. I would expect the other services have a similar requirement. What is that if not training young men to fight and kill?

As this isn't a usual remembrance thread I can't see a massive amount of disrespect there.

even so It's open forum, it's a bit like saying that making racist jokes is acceptable as long as no darkies hear them. They could have expressed the same views whilst actually showing some respect for another persons view. funnily enough I wasn't just meaning to the anti's though.

You obviously cant read.

I never said you couldnt dissent but be respectful. Otherwise why should I or others respect you (or others) POV when you (or others) wont respect my & others feeling.

Its a 2-way street.

Lets have a dialogue by all means but dont take the p1ss. That just doesnt help.

edit: To clarify, Im annoyed at the remark about trained killers feeling sensitive. That implies that servicemen & women dont have feelings. Thats not funny. Not at all. If you tried that on with some of my friends (whove recently lost a colleqgue) you had better stand by. Thats all Im saying.

All Im asking for is some respect for my feelings & those of others. By all means have another POV.

But..

If you cant see why your comment is hurtful, well. theres little point in continuing this dialogue.

evidence of the lost meaning of Remembrance. The whole point of it is that we remember the waste and the sacrifice of lives in war regardless of nationality

That's what I thought; not so, according to google...

If you cant see why your comment is hurtful, well. theres little point in continuing this dialogue.