Transceivers use graphite antennas which can be a little delicate. If I dropped it down a flight of concrete stairs, I would most definitely have doubts about it and would check it pretty thoroughly before using it again.
At the same time, I'd happily buy a second-hand one. Transceivers should be regularly checked & serviced by the manufacturer. It's not expensive and is something I would probably budget for if buying second-hand. I have seen a few duff ones in my time.
GrahamS - probably dodged a bullet there anyway, the original Tracker DTS is a pretty sh*t transceiver and very out-dated now. I've seen them do some seriously worrying things when doing big-scale training exercises.
Cheers stevo. We borrowed a couple of Trackers last year and thought they were [i]adequate[/i] but clearly a bit basic. If I was buying new then I'd probably go for the [url= http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/Specs_ArvaNeo.asp ]Arva Neo[/url] or an [url= http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/Specs_Ortovox3Plus.asp ]Ortovox 3+[/url].
I just thought that for £40 this would be a good bargain - even if I ended up just having it as a spare that we could happily bury for practise drills.
Edit: sorry back2basics - can't help you.
Has much changed with transceiver's? We've got Red 457 (Barryvox 3000), which must be close to 10 year sold now.
Is it just the range or are there more features?
edit: anyone used homeaway.co.uk for apartments?
They used to be homelidays. We used them this year for a place in Alpe D'huez in the summer, everything was fine.
Anyone used "ski school menuires"?
http://www.skischool-lesmenuires.com/
They appear to be apart of the ESF, possibly just those instructors who can speak english or who prefer to work with british skiiers?
It's a toss-up between them and Prosneige
http://menuires.prosneige.fr/english/ski-school/private-lessons.php
For a bit of background information, we're looking for an off-piste guide for a group of 6 british skiiers of varying abilities - with perhaps a bit of tuition thrown in where it seems one of us needs some pointers. Prosneige are asking for €420 for the day, Ski School Menuires just €330. Big difference! Perhaps even enough to justify two days if they'll do a better rate for two days 😀
Is it just the range or are there more features?
Looks like the [url= http://www.gearreview.com/beacons.asp#red ]Red 457[/url] was a dual-antenna combined digital and analog transceiver dating from about 2000?
I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable will speak up - but from what I've read the biggest change has been the move towards pure digital transceivers, faster processing and triple antennas.
The guy at BeaconReviews says this about triple antennas:
Almost all new digital transceivers have three antennas (compare them). These avalanche transceivers not only offer the directional and distance benefits of two-antenna beacons, but they almost eliminate spike problems. You won't notice the spike handling when searching for a beacon a few inches under the snow (as is typical during practice), but bury it under a meter or two of snow and the difference is significant. Three antennas on a searching beacon ensure that antennas are pointed in three-dimensions (i.e., forward/back, left/right, and up/down). The beacon can then use the relative strength of the signal on each antenna to precisely locate the transmitting beacon....
In my testing, having two-or-more antennas is the most important factor in performing a rapid coarse search in a variety of conditions with a variety of rescuers. And three-antennas greatly improve the fine search in all but very shallow burials. I know some old-timers will disagree, but only until they do serious tests with multi-antenna transceivers. I was a hardcore Ortovox F1 fan and swore that multiple antenna transceivers were for dummies—until I used one and discovered the benefits. That isn't a sales pitch, rather it is based on my experiences with many beacons.
I've got one of the RED 457, which was a Burton-branded version of the Mammut Barryvox Opto 3000.
It's similar to the Tracker and was around at much the same time. Side-by-side, I prefer it, and it seems to do less weird stuff, but they're pretty similar.
The main change since that generation of transceivers has been the shift from 2 to 3 antennas, which makes a big difference when searching for a transceiver buried to a more realistic depth. Most people practise searching for a beacon hidden just below the surface, and it's only when it's buried a bit deeper that you see the benefit of the 3rd antenna. The second big change is in software. All of the current crop of top-end beacons have very useful software for dealing with multiple burials. These are generally very effective in use. The first-generation digital transceivers also had a pretty short effective range. This is much better in the new generation.
I've currently got a Barryvox Pulse, which is excellent, although the simpler Element version would be better for most people. The pulse has a lot of features only likely to be used by avalanche professionals. The Ortovox 3+ is also good, as is the S1 (S1+?). I haven't used the latest Pieps, but I've heard good things. I'm not keen on some of the thinking behind the Tracker 2, but I do hear good things about the Tracker 3.
GrahamS, for £42 as a training tool or a spare, it's not a bad shout. Certainly a whole lot better than nothing.
[b]GrahamS[/b] and [b]Stevomcd[/b] - thanks for the info.
That's interesting about the 3rd antenna, especially the more accurate range and depth. I remember at the time of buying mine there was an awful lot of people saying, "Well, it might say 60m on the box, but I wouldn't expect that in the real world."
To be fair ours have always worked faultlessly, but then they've only ever been used in simulations and like you say the trannies you're looking for are at most 2-3 feet under the snow. Perhaps it might be time for an upgrade …
A bit of transceiver science - the radio signal from the buried transceiver comes out in a curved path. This is why you will generally walk along an arc when searching from a distance, rather than travelling in a straight line towards the target.
When the transceiver is buried just below the surface, this makes little difference in the final search phase. The point where you have the strongest signal on your receiving unit will be right above the target.
If the target transceiver is buried deeply, the curved path that the radio transmissions take to reach the snow surface means that your strongest signal ("hot spot") may be some distance away - easily as much as 2 or 3 metres if searching with a single-antenna beacon. This means you have a lot of ground to cover with the probe and the final (probe) phase of the search will take a long time. As the radio waves are transmitted in a symmetrical pattern, you will also very likely have more than one "hot spot", leading to confusion and an even wider area to probe.
2-antenna beacons reduce this effect somewhat, but they can also become confused by the multiple hot spot effect. The 3rd antenna (vertically oriented) makes a massive difference here, and, in training exercises, it's pretty common to hit the buried target on the first or second strike with the probe. It's this situation in which I've seen the Tracker get very confused, it really put me off - I'd previously been a fan.
Regarding range - I would say that the first-gen digital units aren't reliable beyond about 30m. Latest generation digital units are much better (50-60m?) but you still can't beat old-school (and a good set of ears) for the very best range.
Do the latest ones with the third antenna still suffer from the "magnetic field" shaped search pattern, Stevemcd? I can't see any reason to change if the main problem is still trying to work out where the signal is coming from.
The advantage of Recco is that it point straight at the victim. Always worth having a Recco or two on you BTW. More and more resorts have portable detectors.
Very interesting info here.
Ignore my post Steve, rereading your post and Googling suggest the three-antenna things point straight at the victim from anywhere. So it might be time to upgrade.
is it best to book ski and boots rentals ?
have never bothered in the past but that was 15 years ago .
if so , any recommendations for somewhere in Les Gets ?
Also, has anyone seen the massive phatttt dumps of snow hitting the slopes? Was looking (longingly!) at the Serre Che webcams earlier. It looks superb! Someone's already got some turns in out there as well!
Yes, looks nice. Surprising amount of snow there.
From what I saw on the news [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30118783 ]the skiing looks pretty good in New York at the moment[/url]!
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@CFH yes I have, will be at White a Room Chalet in 3 weeks, will try not to break myself this time !
@cchris, yes you can get some really good deals by booking online especially from shops away from town centre. Will get you a recommendation.
Whistler mountain is opening this weekend. Blackcomb probably the weekend after. There's very little snow on the lower half of the mountain so it's going to be lift up/lift down for a while yet. The lack of snow in the valley since I've arrived has pushed me to buy a new bike, that's how frustrating it is!
Big resorts in CO are open now, there was a good little storm last week.
No snow in Saalbach yet. It's got 4 weeks to turn up 😆 😯
Lyngen Alps looking good too.
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photo from Magic Mountain Lodge's fb page
Lidl have got Ski Wear in from today.
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-2491.htm?id=428
Looks pretty ropey but some extra thermals or socks never hurt and there is kids stuff too.
Aldi have their ski event on 04 Dec.
Might be worth it for socks, extra gloves for the little one, etc
Let's try that again:
chutes down to the road:
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If any mods want to get rid of the flickr "photo not found" link, that's be great. It's rather unsightly.
Anyone else suffer from skiers thumb and more importantly how to avoid it.
Yeah don't fall is the first rule :-)but I've being skiing for years & still have the occasional little struggle with gravity. Last season i had a little tumble & yet again trapped my thumb & its very painful. Ta
[b]nedrapier[/b] that's looks great
Sweet baby J that looks glorious ned.
How tough is it to ride? Doesn't look toooo steep but hard to tell from that shot.
I imagine you have to be pretty careful with avi risk? Nowhere to run if it goes bad.
Graham, no clue! I don't know where it is or how steep it is. a lodge in the LA posted it on their page. They tagged the photo "kjosen chutes" so it could be either side of the fjord, and if it's the south, there's no road.
starrman82 - are you using the straps on your poles? If so, are you putting them on properly?
Incorrect use of the straps means that, when you let go of the pole, it stays in place in your hand so you fall on it and break your thumb. If you use the straps properly, then when you let go in a stack, it should fall away.
See here: http://www.trails.com/video_710_use-ski-poles.html
Thanks to this thread and the beautiful people contributing to it, I had a proper think about tranceivers and I'm retiring my F1 and bought a 3+ from Facewest. It's always been picked up quickly by others', it's got the best range I've seen (90m+) but I'm not a pro guide, I'll very likely be quicker searching with a modern digi, and it's one thing less to get in the way of the trust dynamic when new partners see the analogue! (I remember a guide who kept saying "analogues go first!" I didn't complain!)
Best price I found was FaceWests, £224, and that's before the points they give you - worth 10% of the purchase off your next order.
Correct, that's £22.40, maths fans! So I ordered another set of those Coll-Tex Pro skins so the lovely wife and I both have a set. Free with the points and £5 spare.
Sent them an email saying "you may as well sling these in the same bag, save some postage" got one straight back saying "thanks, will do". Then another half an hour later saying they'd been dispatched.
Very impressed. If you're buying stuff, check them out. Good on returns too.
I'm also sending the F1-alike to Noble Custom, UK distributors for Ortovox. They said they'd send it to Ortovox in Germany for testing and repair if possible/necessary. Nothing to pay if they can't/won't/don't need to do anything, so I'll know whether to keep it for practice or keep it for a spare to use.
Les Gets starting to fill in...
I'll be interested to hear what you think to it when you get it, [b]nedrapier[/b]. I'm umming and ahhing about replacing our transceivers and that's the front runner at the moment.
mrsrapier has one, I did a lot of looking around when I bought that one, I wanted something that was intuitive and easy to use, and the reviews and feedback were very positive. It's also got a fancy feature which switches the transmitting antennae acording to how it's buried.
The strongest signal is picked up when the searcher's beacon is aligned with the victim's beacon - imagine them both lying flat on the desk - at 90 degrees to each other = OK, pointing in the same direction = better, pointing in the same direction, one behind the other = best. Now balance the "victim" on it's end, so the antenna is pointing straight up all of the option above are much worse. The 3+ (and probably others ?) switches transmitting to the antenna running along the end of the beacon, so it's on the same plane as the searcher's beacon, held parallel to the ground.
thought it was easier if we have the same one, I know how hers works better so the refresh/practices are easier.
The Tracker 3 has just(ish) been released, which is supposed to be good, might be worth waiting to see what the feedback is on that.
dp.
Barryvox Element would be my recommendation for most people again.
I like the 3+, but there has been some minor quirkiness reported: https://www.wildsnow.com/4068/ortovox-3-avalanche-beacon-2/
I've seen one do exactly this, which was a wee bit off-putting. If it's your own transceiver and you're familiar with it, no worries to push on through, but I'd just been handed a friend's one to try, it was a bit confusing.
My recommendation would be to give stevo's comments a lot more weight than mine! 🙂
stevomvd, thanks for the reply, no i don't use straps at all and just face the consequence of potentially loosing a pole. My problem is i don't let go of the pole easily if i do fall. I was just wondering if anyone else suffered the same & if they found a cure.....apart from stay upright!
Saw these on ebay but really cant see if they'd work.
starrman82 - I guess the only other advice is "tuck and roll". Sticking your arms out is always asking for trouble (in MTB and snowboarding as well as in skiing).
I retired my Ortovox F1 a few years ago and replaced it with a 3+
Barryvox Element also has lots recommendations, but whichever you buy, practice & familiarity is key, especially when moving from coarse to fine search.
Like you Nedrapier I purchased from Facewest - never had anything but a great service from them. They upgraded the firmware in the 3+ for free last year*
Facewest have become my regular one-stop-shop for outdoor & backcountry kit. Not always the cheapest online price, but factor in the 10% 'loyalty points', free postage & no quibble returns and they are very reasonable indeed.
*The firmware upgrade apparently addresses some of the 'quirks' that stevomcd mentions
I made my return to indoor riding last night at Chill Factore.....think I've had just over 3 months off so I'd lost some of my rad sik freestyle moves 😳
Some serious disquiet amongst the regulars about how Chill Factore, especially Freestyle nights are being run. Not sure if any regulars post on here or not?
In other news, I still haven't booked a trip yet.....went to book Tignes through Action Outdoors for Feb half term, but funds have been seriously depleted by Mrs B's 30th which is happening in March....I may well pull the trigger today though!
Update, I have now booked and paid for Tignes Feb Half term 2015 8)
Farewell any sense of financial stability 😯
Another recommendation for Facewest, I've had loads of stuff from them over the years. Free upgrades on firmware on my kit as well.
Tom B - if you think your other half's birthday limits snowsports funds, try taking children on ski holidays.
How much?! 😯 😳
Worth every penny though.
Some Lake District skiing
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Sweet, just picked up a Westbeach Backcountry jacket on eBay. Brand new with tags for £126 🙂
By the way, if anyone is after a wardrobe refresh then Westbeach still have a sale on their website with items left from last season. Bargaintastic.
Also I saw a very nice Surfanic jacket in TinkyMax the other day for just £50!
Yeah, just refreshed my snowboard kit from the Westbeach site. Better than instructor discount!
There's a actually a lot more choice than there appears to be as well, surprising number of colours and sizes available - searching/filtering doesn't seem to work very well.
Got to be honest, I wasn't blown-away by the quality / durability of my last set of Westbeach clothing, but at that price I'll take my chances!
Well my jacket last year was a high end £300 Burton [ak] and it eventually went back for a full refund because it wasn't waterproof and fell apart. Westbeach have served me well in the past but not had one in years so I'll see how this one goes.
Well my jacket in 2004(?) was a high end £300+ Burton [ak] and it eventually went back for a full refund because it wasn't waterproof and fell apart.
Well I got fed up of having to buy a new jacket every season to replace the previous year's that wasn't waterproof and had fallen apart ... 🙁
So I bought an Arc'teryx Sidewinder in a sale in 2008 (RRP £500) and it's still going strong today despite numerous altercations & encounters with trees, rocks & ice etc!
Did look at the Arc'teryx stuff when it came up on SportPursuit. Looked lush but I couldn't justify the cost even in the sale. 🙁
Do you reckon the general quality of jackets has gone down in the past ten years or so? My ancient Burton Tempest jacket is a bit bobbly, faded and frayed but it is still just about wearable and I've had it for yonks. Modern jackets seems a lot more delicate.
I got a ME changabang (and a pair of bindings) with my credit note for the Burton jacket.
I got the Burton Jacket though my friends instructor discount £180, I was upfront with Ellis Brigham when I took it into them, saying I'd bought it overseas, I'd quite happily pay them to send it to Burton for repair/replacement through their channels.
EB said no probs, sent it off. Burton said "sorry, credit note him" E-B gave me a credit note for RRP - £360 ( 😯 ) That paid for the ME jacket, and some Salomon Bindings with a chip in from me.
The zip in the ME jacket jave up after a year, so I took it back - they sent it off. ME said "the zip's not a warranty item" wtf? jacket's pretty much useless without one - fancy fabric isn't worth a lot if it's flapping off your shoulders! EB told me they thought that was unacceptable, gave me another Changabang off the hanger and said they'd keep on at ME.
Zip gave up the ghost on that one too.
EB called a few years later when they were doing a refit, and said "we've found a jacket, looks like warranty was refused but you never picked it up. Do you want it?"
Picked it up, sent both off to Tundra Repair for new zips, both going strong. Nice jackets, rubbish zips!
And That is The Story of My Jackets. Cool story, isn't it, bro's?
Epilogue: I've spent a bit in Ellis Brigham since!
Sounds like you got a lot better service from Ellis Brigham than I got from Snow+Rock. They tried to fob me off saying the (brand new) jacket just needed reproofing and that it was my fault for wearing a cotton t-shirt under it! 😯 Took a lot of faffing and persistence to get them to concede it.
My Mammutt jacket is 10 years old but I do only ski 1-2 weeks a year. I have a cheap White Stuff smock which still does decent service too. I wince at the price of the shells today, Arc'teryx looks very nice but I cannot justify it (likewise Gore bike wear so perhaps I am just a cheap skate).
@ned, nice story
Well looks like the guy on eBay has more Westbeach Backcountry jackets for sale (Medium and Large) if anyone fancies one. Guessing he bought a job lot in the sale. £126 for a £275 RRP 20k/30k shell seems like a bargain to me.
Here's his eBay page: http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/smithy661976
Interesting about the AK stuff, my experience of AK gear has been good. That said my Arc'teryx stuff is indestructible, one of my jackets must be 10 years old and just keeps on going.
On another point, does anyone know anything about GoPro poles? I will be skiing/riding with some friends and their kids are bound to want to use one.
Ahh well - nice spot Graham, a 20k/30k shell sounded interesting, but not if the biggest size is large. The extra large would be spot on but he's only selling a 10k/10k in that size.
I'll always be very cautious with buying stuff that states itself as being 10k waterproof or whatever. Last year I bought a pair of 686 ski pants in a sample sale for about 50 dollars Canadian, which stated themselves to be 10k waterproof. Well I spent most of the season with a soaking wet behind and wet legs, and didn't even bother taking them back home with me. They went in the bin where they belong.
Recently bought a Gore tex Powderhorn jacket and pants on Sport Pursuit, so hopefully they'll do the job! Imo you can't really put a price on staying warm and dry all day.
I'll always be very cautious with buying stuff that states itself as being 10k waterproof or whatever.
Agreed but you've got to go on something - even if it is a bit "aspirational" on the part of the marketeers.
Recently bought a Gore tex Powderhorn jacket and pants on Sport Pursuit, so hopefully they'll do the job! Imo you can't really put a price on staying warm and dry all day.
The AK jacket I mentioned was Goretex, which is one of the reasons I was surprised it was so crap!
Interesting about the AK stuff, my experience of AK gear has been good.
It seems to get decent write ups so it's quite possible that I got a "Friday afternoon" one. It behaved as if they had forgotten to apply any DWR to it at all. Water droplets didn't bead on it, they just soaked in until the jacket was heavy and sodden. They claimed it just needed reproofing (bit odd for a brand new jacket) so I hand washed it, tumble dried it (per instructions) and the main zip lost half a dozen teeth!
Recently bought a Gore tex Powderhorn jacket and pants
They're good. My wife has both and rates them highly. Nicely detailed too as they should be at that kind of RRP.
Water droplets didn't bead on it, they just soaked in until the jacket was heavy and sodden.
That is unacceptable on a brand new ski jacket, Goretex or not.
Yep, my wife eventually won the argument with the snow+rock guy when she pointed out that her £30 jacket from the Trespass outlet performed significantly better in the wet. 😀
Well if we're doing jacket stories....
A long time ago, in a place far, far away, sometime around the dawn of internet forums, Burton Snowboards had an internet forum. There were maybe 20 regular posters on it, but it had a really good vibe. One of those posters was me. Another was a dude who worked at Burton HQ. He collected Nike Dunks and discovered that some new colour-schemes had been issued that were UK-only. He asked me if I would buy him a set and post them over. In exchange for Burton gear at US HQ staff discount rate. I was in. I got the unaffordably exotic AK Continuum Fuse jacket for what worked out at about £70. It was awesome. I've still got it. I've worn it snowboarding for over 10 years and I still wear it regularly as my "touring day" jacket. I wore it in Scottish deluges for my mountain leader exams and it held up in fine style. Will be wearing it again this winter. The pull tag on the zip did break a year or two ago, but I just shoved a key-ring on. Otherwise, it's in really good shape, aside from the big areas of rucksuck wear and snowboard edge wear.
snowboard edge wear.
*looks with a puzzled skiers face*.
Hehe, comes from carrying your board under your arm - the edge of the board rubs on your hip as you walk and scrapes away at your jacket / pants!
haha! great story stevomcd! 🙂
I guess that kindof answers GrahamS' earlier question 😆 :
Do you reckon the general quality of jackets has gone down in the past ten years or so?
So anyone looking for a slightly longer board this year?
Signal will sort you out:
😀
Do you reckon the general quality of jackets has gone down in the past ten years or so?
I'd say not if you choose wisely, just a lot more rubbish on the market. Materials like Goretex are actually getting better and better i.e. more waterproof, more breathable and more durable. Insulation is also getting lighter and warmer.
My favourite jacket at the moment is a Sweet Protection Duke. Had it a couple of years now and pretty good value when on sale.
My toughest jacket is a Dainese Valdez from around '06. Bit heavy though by today's standards.
Interestingly, at the time I got my AK jacket, most of Burton's top-end stuff (especially AK) was GoreTex. The Continuum Fuse, which had welded rather than sewn & taped seams was not because, at the time GoreTex would not allow their fabric to be used in this way. Burton therefore had to use some other waterproof/breathable fabric. No idea if this had any effect on the longevity or not.
Say what you like about Burton, and they certainly have plenty of detractors, but they've always been innovators and early-adopters of new technology. Welded-seam clothing was pretty bling stuff back in the early 00's.
I've had a lot of their kit over the years mostly been really happy with it. Clothing was good, boards good, had some really awful gloves, I got on well with their boots. Their bindings were always the big stand-out for me though. I honestly think that it's only in the last 5 years or so that it's even been worth looking at another binding brand. Plenty of choice these days, but for years everyone else seemed to be miles behind.
I'm still using a set of CO2's that I brought with me when I moved to France in 2007. They're now back on first-choice board too. I swap boards a lot, but even conservatively I reckon they've got 300 days riding on them!
Mild, very mild. More mild forecast for another 10 days. Anyone planning skiing in France December will need to go high.
The explanation I got from Ellis Brigham about my jacket ("Surely you'd expect better from GreTex?") was that in many cases, GoreTex just supply the membrane, Burton or whover else bond it to the face fabric they choose.
Don't know if this is the case? I'm pretty certain it's not when you're looking at GoreTex ProShell or XCR, which seems to be the whole laminate fabric, same construction in every case, rather than just the membrane.
Can't say I've tested it in bad weather yet but I have an Oakley jacket that I rate, it's comfy, has some lovely features like magnetic storm flap and hood catch. It's also in such a borderline girly blue that everyone can find me on the slopes with ease!
("Surely you'd expect better from GreTex?") was that in many cases, GoreTex just supply the membrane, Burton or whover else bond it to the face fabric they choose.
Worrying! I would have thought there would be a high level of quality control or testing for jackets to be allowed call themselves Gore tex, otherwise its just some level of waterproof, which is often far from IMO.
The best "Gortex" jackets I've used in recent years haven't been Gortex. On the hills a Schôffel jacket is proving more durable (as in still waterproof) than any Gortex I've owned while on the bike an Adidas Storm (expensive) and an Endura yellow thing (cheap) are lasting better than Goretex branded things. I've got some new North Face Gortex jackets but I'm reluctant to use them with a rucksac or in conditions which mean they'll need a wash, because experience says they'll then leak.
Gore are a scary bunch, not least in the way they try and control the market.
If you want to use any other membrane in your range, they basically blackball you out of it. It takes a brave company to say up yours to that!
eVent is a better performing fabric, as was Lowe Alpine's excellent Triple Point Ceramic among others. As long as fools keep on saying they need a "goretex" when they really need a waterproof, breathable fabric, companies will keep on making it.
Ignorance in the market is to blame here.
FWIW, main jacket is Eider, with an Entrant fabric (20k water/20k breathe) and trews are TNF HyVent. Less of an issue, as they're very well vented. In both cases, keep the outer nicely proofed and job's a good 'un.
eVent is a better performing fabric, as was Lowe Alpine's excellent Triple Point Ceramic among others. As long as fools keep on saying they need a "goretex" when they really need a waterproof, breathable fabric, companies will keep on making it.
The Wetbeach I ordered of eBay is [url= http://cocona.com/technology/ ]Cocona[/url] apparently. Never heard of it but they claim 20k water/30k breathe so it'll be interesting to see how it performs in reality.
Speaking of GoreTex the flash-sale-site-that-shall-not-be-named has Berghaus GoreTex Pro shells on at £99.
(plus some decently priced Westbeach, Powderhorn, Bergans and Haglofs stuff)
As long as fools keep on saying they need a "goretex" when they really need a waterproof, breathable fabric, companies will keep on making it.
I just thought in theory it would make more sense to think that a Gore tex jacket/pants or whatever would actually be waterproof. Maybe I just had a bad egg with the 10k waterproof pants I had which soaked right through on more than a few occasions. Casual one week a year skiers etc would be better off with cheap and cheerful, or "waterproof". I would be happy buy 10 or 20k waterproof stuff if thats what they actually are... just thought going for Gore tex would be a safer option. 🙂
Some of the best fabrics out there are made by the likes of Toray.
Just look at the really good stuff churned out by Salomon, Kjus, Schoffel, Eider, TNF and more that ISN'T Gore. I'm a hot bugger at the best of times and ski hard and fast, but have never suffered wetting out due to lack of breathability in my TNF trews.
In short, a bin bag is waterproof. Waterproofing is only half the problem, though.
For ski stuff, it's less of an issue, as snow's a different make up to rain. A good DWR outer is really important, obviously, as is jacket design (Venting, etc).
I would be happy buy 10 or 20k waterproof stuff if thats what they actually are... just thought going for Gore tex would be a safer option.
As above, as long as people keep thinking they need a Goretex rather than a good waterproof, breathable piece of kit (Which may, as it happens be Gore), Gore will continue to rake it in. There are equal, better, and certainly cheaper fabrics out there.
my trews are Gelanots, apparently. Not been disappointed. In fact I'm quite happy with them. This happy:
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These:
http://www.trewgear.com/pdp/trewthbib
If you want a high end shell bib with crampon patches that is a relaxed fit (not skinny mountaineery) You're looking at £400+ from Norrona or ArcT, or these for £285 (if you're going to the states, or know someone who is)