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singletracks running ray of sunshine strikes again…;-)
I am full of xmas joy 🙂
so hypothetically .....
if a stubborn bugger wanted to do their first ultra (62km) and had 6 months to train to distance.
top tips ?
Plotted out the CG ultra on a map and rather than doing the Larig ghru race again I'm sorely tempted - but its a 50% increase in distance and 100% increase in climbing and i wasn't in great shape after LG- although i did learn a lot about my own body and what muscles i need to target - I had muscles that just stopped firing through fatigue after 37km (previous longest run was 25km)
My rough plan is to finish marcothon, Get back to the club on thursdays. Work up the distance on weekends.
Do long runs in the hills on trails
Not solo the puffer....that killed my back.
Likewise not solo 10 under - that killed my back
Strengthen Back .
New wider shoes.
also .... Stuart - did i see you were interested 😀
As many long runs as you can was my tactic, pretty much gave up the 5k wee runs with workmates and tried to always get at least 7 or 8 miles in, double that on a weekend run. It's time on your feet that counts, forget pace.
You know your onions, you'll be reet.
LG was your first big run, would be a bit odd if you didn't feel any ill effects after it, my first ultra was the same, but tbh the last 2 I've done, I reckon I could've ran the next day without too much bother.
I'm tempted too btw....
As many long runs as you can was my tactic, pretty much gave up the 5k wee runs with workmates and tried to always get at least 7 or 8 miles in, double that on a weekend run. It’s time on your feet that counts, forget pace.
And make as many of them as possible on the same or similar terrain to the race.
And make as many of them as possible on the same or similar terrain to the race.
haha thats my justification for the wife 😀 - We need to go to Loch muick all spring
A friend used to say when marathon training, run further, run faster and run up more hills.
I use that as my simplistic approach to building my training base.
Other options are running on tired legs, maybe doing 2 runs on certain days or a run in the evening and then next day first thing in the morning.
Definitely try and mimic the terrain of the race and get the short runs up to a reasonable distance as per Nobeer.
Don't worry about the pace on longer runs, but maybe try and build in some speed/interval/hill sessions through the week if it's possible.
Thats pretty much the matra i follow for Bike racing - it applied well to LG.
thursday is speedwork
Tuesdays is hill run in the gloop
Longer runs will be at weekend I've identified a good hill route.
saturdays me and the wife tag team - she rides to a cafe about 40k by road and i drive with jnr then we swap - if i run home from there its 30k offroad run over Hill of fare.
Just need to fit an increasingly longer run on sundays.
Just to hijack for a moment this week saw the death of the great Peter Snell. He won an 800 Gold in the 1960 Olympics, dominated the next few years then did the 800/1500 double in the 1964 games (the year I was born)
He broke the 800m world record with 1:45.1 on a grass track then later ran 1:44 on dirt/cinders! He broke a number of world records over 800/1000m and the mile.
If he was at his peak today he would still be a podium contender. You cant say that about many athletes from 50+ yrs ago.
He was coached by the famous Arthur Lydiard and any of you interested may want to read about his methods, few could follow them but variations of his sessions have been used since.
This is what 1:45.1 on grass looks like. Watch in awe....
So my running routes (away from main roads, because well, who wants to run next to a main road!) are all unlit/poorly lit footpaths/dead end roads/river towpaths with maybe 2-3 cars per run, and/or undulating tarmac, wet mushy leaves, and so on.
I've found an old headtorch, but will need a cheap red safety light, what's best - an armband light? I could clip one to my shorts but my top might go over it and render it almost useless.
Also, week 1 run 2 completed yesterday, zero DOMS so far... 2.38 miles inc both the warm up and warm down 5 minute walks. Avg heartrate was 125, max 158. I was getting into my stride too (pun intended!) and was making sure not to over-stride. I seem to be sitting at 140-150bpm on the running parts, and at about 8-9min /mile pace, which still feels pretty slow if I'm honest... overall pace for the whole run/walk was 10:43 /mile. I'm only really feeling it in my ankles when I'm running, as in they feel weak (like when you're at the end of a set of weights, or at the end of your limit for a cycle sprint) but I seem to get a nice second wind on the last running section 😀
Don't worry about the numbers Tall Paul , I'm a year in to running and my times are still slow, almost imperceptible gains but gains nonetheless.
I run a night commute on unlit lanes. Don't feel the need for a red light, if there's a car coming up behind I just shine the headtorch downwards alongside me and the big pool of light on the road seems to be far more effective in making me visible.
I'm feeling a bit faster today 😊 I wondered if I could run a 45m 10k so watched a video (series of 4 on YouTube actually) to see what was involved. A fit, thin, serious looking bloke did a 4 week plan and attempted to run 45m in a 10k race. I won't spoil the ending, suffice it to say I can't be arsed with training plans and promptly forgot about it.
This morning, I woke up in Bordeaux which is the only place I've actually run 10k on the flat, back in August. I remember doing it at 4m50 pace, thinking 4.50*10=45mins, and being rather disappointed at going over 48m.
So having worked out I needed to run 4m30 pace which I do for about 3km on the way to my local trail loop, set off and managed to hold the pace at about 4m15 up the Gironde, crossed the bridge and was at 5km in 21m something. Pace dropped as last night's beer began to threaten to reappear and the headwind picked up, panicked a bit as the Garmin kept showing 5 mins pace, but scraped in at 44.29 so quite pleased with that, not sure why it needed 4 videos to explain!
Now to find a local 10k race and scratch the itch properly, but I still refuse to do a training plan!
There is no shortage of people looking for some magic formula. A training plan can be written on the back of a stamp (almost) and there are only a handful of components making up about 3 to 4 sessions a week. Never known anyone to follow a plan that told them what to do outside of those sessions, other than get your strength back by running steady miles.
and there are only a handful of components making up about 3 to 4 sessions a week
It's so simple a large majority of folk make a total horses arse of it.
They are not looking for a magic formula they are often looking for guidance to avoid overuse and injury.
Good work on your target Bob.
I re-listened to an interesting old podcast from Feb 2019 on Shawn bearsdens podcast science of ultra. It was about focusing on why and not setting arbitrary targets such as a time or a position as the journey to that target is often the euphoric experiance and hitting the target is often a let down in that the joy of hitting the target is short lived the experiance of traveling to the target lives With you for a long time.
Worth a listen if you get a chance. Although I get he's an acquired taste ...his approach appeals to my engineering mind.
They are not looking for a magic formula they are often looking for guidance to avoid overuse and injury.
Unless youve met them all then you cant say. Met plenty who think they can eat and rest their way to good performances. My comment was in response to Bob's comment about taking 4 videos.
Indeed but thats the gullible people who can't distinguish betweent the advice they are looking for and fake news.
The countries full of them. See our Tory government 🙂
Unfortunantly this allows the unscrupulous to pray for fame and fortune. It's the same with cycling when former pros release their get fit in 15 minutes books
Hard work and dedication gets you to the top not special plans.
How ever misguided hardwork and dedication means unless gifted you often end up bitter and twisted about having never made it.
Speaking of missguided I'm just waiting on my ride to the hills for a 4pm night run round the hill tops ......I predict fallsaplenty.
Nice one @bob_summers I fancy going after a sub 50 10k next year as just a little target. Got to 52mins 2yrs ago on a trail race.
Had a little milestone of my own today. Did a 10 miler. Never gone over 9 before. Nothing major but felt good. Took me 1:30hr with about 4 mile being off road. Slippy!
Got my first half in January and have set myself a small goal of going sub 2hr. Should be doable based on today if I don’t mess it up and get carried away.
First run of week 2 done, definitely working a bit more now, especially as my route is fairly undulating. Still fairly comfortable though, I can feel the improvement in my ankles/calves from the first runs.
Managed just shy of 5 miles this morning all off road. Longest run I have done for months and although my back is sore it didnt get much worse from the first to the 5th mile so maybe just continue picking things up gently, and play it by ear. Nice to be able to jog over the holiday period. May even look for a low key race as a motivator 🙂
Not managed a run for about three weeks now due to family commitments and the usual chaos in the run-up to Christmas, however I have just managed to sort out getting the tyres changed on our car on 28 December so I will drop it off and go for a good long run in the 1hr 30 mins the garage say they want it for.
QECP has been a bit slippy of late, my run up Halnaker Windmill with a local group was fun.. I’m off ouup Norf now so will revisit Simon Seat loop and jog along the moors a bit.
Enjoy your break.
Getting out for a run could be just the medicine you need.
May even look for a low key race as a motivator 🙂
Parkrun? 😉
Parkrun? 😉
Maybe
also …. Stuart – did i see you were interested 😀
I will be entering it, the only other race I have signed up for is the Tiree half. I will be doing the Fetteresso in Feb then it is into the long slow runs. I can surely get over the cairn and we can do some long plods,new dad duties allowing. Nobeer, is the Cairngorm Ultra not up your street?
What is fetteresso in Feb ?
Also you been to crathes park run yet ? It's worth a drive
A local marathon in the forest. OH has been to Crathes a couple of times, was there for that and the Santa dash last week and likes it.
Nobeer, is the Cairngorm Ultra not up your street
It is, but May is exam time, only 2 weeks before, so not really sure what to do. On waiting list for the Devil too, hmmmm...
11 miles early this morning brought up 1000 miles for the year, not much by some of your standards, but 2 years ago I'd have baulked at running 20 miles a week.
More hill races is next year's target I reckon. 👌🏻
Just been out for 15k with the buggy.
Eilidh slept the whole way.....it did take me 1hr 45 so no records but it was a time on feet thing.
Looked up fetteresso.....looks tough. I know those routes well from the drumtochty challenge......the thing about fetteresso is it's all up or down. No flat.
Ok, I have something of a delicate question for the experienced runners here.
What are your poo management strategies? As I've started running for an hour, I've found myself touching cloth towards the end.
This appears to be a thing and I've found an article on Runners world, but it'd be interesting to know what works for people in the real world.
What are your poo management strategies?
2 options.
Ideally, go before you go. This is my preferred option, but it does help that I do my long runs in the morning. Eat early and then go out 2 or 3 hours later after you’ve attended to business. Or don’t eat at all.
Or, don’t fight it and get good at a stealth crouch in the woods. If you ever listen to Running Commentary Podcast you’ll find this is Paul Tomkinson’s preferred option.
Coffee as soon as you're up, give it 30 mins, then go squat whether you're ready or not! It'll come! 😂
Since I chucked the beer, it's became a lot less of an issue tbh, used to always have to go first thing, was a right nuisance when kipping in the back of my van, either finding a loo open early or going in the woods!
Find I can happily wait til after lunch now!
Running shoes for ultras .
I'm back in my decathlon trail shoes that became too narrow on LG.
It was pointed out it's a known thing that feet swell in ultra.
Keen not to make the same mistake in that I'm going to buy me probably some speedgoats if I can get them to fit in the new year to train and use on CG ultra trail and at the price only have one shot to get it right
What sort of fit should I be looking for. I'm going to a shop to buy my first pair at least but tbh I thought my decathlon trail shoes fitted - and they do ...... Just got tight after 40k.
I go big for trail shoes, I think my fujitrabuco are 11.5, I'm shoe size 10, as you say due to swelling of your feet being on em for so long. Lots of room in the toe box.
I'm for a wee pair of trail gators too, keep the wee stones out.
I'm already a full shoe size up in my decathlon's
My pet hate is a loose heel cup. I had some salomon speed cross a few years ago and they were a good length and width but soon as I started running it became apparent they were slack like old socks.
Caused me no end of bother on the inov8 iroc ended up running in my manky old casual shoes.
Terry, I have feet like flippers,I am back in inov8’s but really regretting not buying another pair of mizunos. Weirdly they have Michelin soles that are the grippiest things ever and are good and wide as well as avoiding heel lift, which I get with inov8.
Edit; wave mujins.
Terry I use altra shoes lone peak are my favourite but in real mud the mtkings are fantastic, great heel grip but nice space for foot spread I only need my normal size too as when the foot is able to spread it doesn't seem to lengthen too much, I've also just got a pair of topo shoes for the road as they are meant to be more durable on tarmac than altra road I've not run In them yet but they feel a good fit and I have a wide front of foot
Altras are my fall back my mates pushed them hard but for the races I'm looking at I think I'd benifit from the hoka concept.
The handful of people I know that have had pretty good success rates in ultras use hokas of their own choice.
Moved from dabbling in running this year to wanting to get my 10k time ultimately to sub 40 in the future. Ordered faster road racing to learn more
I keep meaning to try a hoka but not taken the plunge yet, I heel strike so they could perhaps help, I think
Hokas come up half a size small. I have ran in them for a few years since I developed arthritis in one large toe joint, the stiff forefoot is helpful. I wouldn't choose them for off road running because you will at some point roll your ankle unless it is just trail, rough fells and they become frustratingly unstable. Having said that they are very comfortable and a lot lighter and easier to run in than they look. I do run in the stinson at the moment and they are the most built up version. The others are a bit lower so more suitable for rougher ground. I did have the speed goat v1 and they weren't great but I think the later versions are much better.
It'll largely be fire road races with about 15k of *trail" in a 60kloop.
I'd rather be comfy for most of it than fast for 25% of it.
Plenty of folk use them for the whw race so can't be that bad for trail or folk would vote with their feet *pun intended .
Speedgoat are onto v4 now so I imagine a fairly different shoe.
My local shop stock hoka , altra , on and inov8 and there is at least one competent long distance runner there who can offer advice based on experiance
I'm aiming to do a bit more running new year. Have a very comfy pair of mizunos that are 5+ years old, but very low mileage (and never worn day to day). Worth getting a new pair do you reckon - the sole must lose some of its springiness?
How are decathlon for running shoes? I live close to one and can easily pick up a pair of kalenjis if they're up to the usual good decathlon standard.
I'm a big fan of Hokas - I have Adidas, Nike, Salomon and Scarpa too but they're my choice for grinding out the miles, and most of my runs are offroad. I did a 60km earlier this year and my feet / shoes were the last of my problems. I find the sizing varies between models - my Speedgoats are a lot smaller than Mafetes so definitely worth trying for size.
Bastards. Just went over on my ankle 500yds before getting back to the car.
Big pop, loads of pain, hobbled back to the car and on ice now.shit end to a good year...
Rest up Jambo, it's taken me three months to get over a folded ankle and ripped tendons.
I get free physio through work so I’ll give them a call tomorrow and get some sessions booked in.
Decathlon shoes grand.
I'm just changing as I'm going beyond the distance the shoes are really meant for.
Just in from 15km of post turkey burn off I'm my trail MLS. Did an Xmas eve 15km in them too . Great shoes but became too tight after 35km of hot summer day in the hills
Garry, every chance those trainers will be humped mate, sadly.
Decathlon trainers are great, only downside seems to be that they're a tad narrow, they certainly were when I tried them anyway. Lots of others on here have had good service from them though.
Keep asking on here and let us know your progress, this thread is not the usual stw type, very supportive and helpful bunch. Ive had loads of great help.
All the best.
Think I got away lightly, ankle is stiff and sore this morning but as far as I can tell no major damage.
Might have to actually ride a bike while it sorts itself out...
Week 2 of C25K completed this morning before work, next week is 90 second run/walk and a 3 minute run/walk, then repeat.
Still no issues with fitness, but I am getting some more muscle soreness - shins and calves mostly.
I'll look at getting a proper pair of running shoes in the new year as I won't be far off the W5 run 3 20 minute run.
Wanting to pick the minds of you all again.
Got my first half on 5th January.
Now obviously we all different and a half is probably nothing to some however when would you be looking at doing your last run before the day (a Sunday in this case) and what sort of distance would you be considering?
I was thinking a 5k ish sort of distance on the Thursday then rest but tbh no real idea.
Still no issues with fitness, but I am getting some more muscle soreness – shins and calves mostly.
@ta11pau1, entirely normal. Stretch loads after each run, and then stretch again a few hours later. Your body is getting used to it and soreness is to be expected. If it goes from soreness to pain then slow down and take some rest.
Now obviously we all different and a half is probably nothing to some however when would you be looking at doing your last run before the day (a Sunday in this case) and what sort of distance would you be considering?
@RDL-82, lots of different views but 3 or 4 slow, easy miles on flat terrain on Thursday is a safe option. I like to do something on the Saturday too, 1 or 2 slow miles or 20 mins on the bike if you prefer, I find it helps keep my legs moving and gets my head in the game too.
@RDL-82, lots of different views but 3 or 4 slow, easy miles on flat terrain on Thursday is a safe option. I like to do something on the Saturday too, 1 or 2 slow miles or 20 mins on the bike if you prefer, I find it helps keep my legs moving and gets my head in the game too.
I'd suggest adding in a quick couple of sprints to that last run, just to wake your legs up a bit. Other than that the time and distance are what I'd do too.
A few days late but I did a parkrun on Christmas day, it was pretty muddy and slippery, but all good fun. Ended up first in my age category too 😀
I'm mainly running with my dog, 2 year-old Labrador that we rescued a year ago and she loves it - 45 minute off-road 10k today started with a 3:56 1st kilometre including a poop-stop! She wears a harness and bungee lead and I have a Ruffwear waistbelt / harness and she goes off like the clappers. Haven't quite managed to get her to pull or slow on command yet and we do get the random "squirrel booster" mid-run which is always fun!
Thanks for the input.
Unfortunately no bike at the minute so no chance of easy spinning. Noticing the lack of commuting on fitness and recovery tbh but that’s another story!
I’ll go with the 3-4 miler on Thursday as is been thinking.
As for Saturday I’ll see how I feel. Regardless of running or not I’ll be out for an hour with the dog anyway.
Haven’t done the full distance but did a 10 miler and could have happily carried on so not worried about the distance or potential extra time.
Southern based family visiting for weekend so getting up for parkrun tomorrow maybe in jeopardy. If I make it it will be the first one for a couple of years and no doubt at a snails pace. Aim for the V55 record in the fullness of time 😠
RDL remember the training you do the week before a race is for the next one. Training the last few days before a race can only take away, not add.
Well that's annoyingly alluring.
I'm on 175km for this month.
3 days left that's 15k of running.
The sensible thing to do here would be too up the next three days..... What will probably happen is I do 15k on the 31st just like last year when I did 25k on a treadmill in the north sea out of boredom.
Doing the lumphanan detox 10 on the 2nd. It'll be no records set there from me. Anyone else signed up ?
Not entered anything for a while, although my wife has just reminded me that I have the falkirk ultra in 5 weeks.
Fark.
I've entered the Tadworth 10 Onntheb5th January which is a daunting prospect for me - 10 miles trail race. Found out there is quite a lot of road so.not sure what shoes to wear now.
Been building up to it with a couple of 7k last week and my first 10 mile run yesterday. Wasn't sure how is feel but got through it and felt quite spritely at the end. Legs a little tired today.
Parkrun on New Year's Day and tempted to go for a sub 21, depending how tired I feel. Slow parkrun to celebrate a friends 300th on Saturday, then the big event on Sunday.
All that and the kids I think I'll need to go back to work for a rest.
Keep up the good work people - the stories are good to read.
Well that's marcothon done.
200k for December.
Felt good till I noticed Jim walmsley had done 1100 in the same time.......in perspective that's more than a lot of folk on the mere mortal cycling thread.
It's 35km a day !
my wife has just reminded me that I have the falkirk ultra in 5 weeks.
😀
I'll wing it Mogrim, 3.8 mile laps for 8 hours. 🙄😂
Anyone do the parkrun double today? I didn't but know many who did. Great idea.
I did Nonsuch and managed a PB 20:34. Going for a sub 20 soon which is something I never even dreamed of saying only 4 months ago, when a 25:00 seemed a long way off. Merry New Year!
Stuart. That's me in the fetteresso Forrest marathon.
Gonna use it as a benchmark for if I should enter the Cairngorm ultra or not.
Aim is finish.
Me as well Terry! On a point of order, you are younger and faster than me, please don’t introduce doubt into my mind by mentioning finishing it! as your target 😆
Ah but older means experianced and experiance trump's speed in long races 🙂
Lumphanan detox 10 today surprised my self with a 46 and change on very tired legs.
Not a pb. But was never expecting one.
After the disappointment of missing out on a place for the Snowdonia marathon I have commiserated myself by entering my first ultra. Duckeries 40 miler, early May. This is going to hurt isn't it?
This is going to hurt isn’t it?
It'll be fine 🙂
Despite a pretty miserable December weather wise, the 31st was stunning and opted for a a few Munros around Glen Coe. Perfect conditions, pretty warm, and no snow!
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Then off to Aonach Mor Up Hill on NYD. 4km, and 600m of climbing. Finlay Wild won in 21:something. I did a 24:57 which got me 5th. Pleasing start to the year!
change of plans afoot.
price of the cairngorm ultra just came out.
I expected 60 quid .... but 90 quid(and thats early bird - 105 if after jan) is too much for me for struggling round 60km ill leave it to the UTMB points chasers and run around there FOC any time since i live nearby.
Bennachie ultra now on my radar - more climb , 10km less distance 30 quid last year ..... so even if it doubles in cost its still palatable. - also gives me more time to prep.
Ooft, steep!.
Hey Gents... I'd like some event recommendations please.
I want to add more weight training/cross training to my running this year. But need some kind of event to train for.
Not sure what I'm after really .... something like crossfit games (but NOT crossfit games) or the Fan Dance? Strength and aerobic stamina ?? Has anyone had a go at it ?
Any more ideas please (I've done/do OCR thanks)
Ta
Aye; I thought was eye watering Terry.
Well then folks, what we up to this weekend?
Saturday I’m doing the text book run to parkrun (3.5 miles), parkrun, long way home (7 miles ish).
Sunday is run to junior parkrun (1.5 miles), long way home (5 miles ish).
Anyone doing anything interesting?
Aaaggghhhh! Less than a month til my first ultra and I’ve gone and pulled my calf. Felt a pop on an easy 6 miler today.😢
Any stories of quick recovery - please!!
Well then folks, what we up to this weekend?
Long run tomorrow morning, something like 25-30km in the local mountains. Not entirely sure what the route will be, but both the guys I'm going with are Tor and UTMB finishers so I'm guessing it'll be tiring 😀
@ts4or5 good luck with that, not ideal 🙁
Just short runs for me at the mo, exam week next week, so not much time.
Planning to do west island way as a training run with mrsnobeer soon, 45k and just up the road from here, should be nice.
She's obsessed with planning adventures at this time of year, which is great. 😊
Celebrated clubmate’s 300th parkrun today. Took it easy for 10 mile XC tomorrow and blimey, it’s busy in the middle of the pack! Nonsuch was packed today and a good time was had by all.
Ps I’m on 11 now, so a loooooong way to go.
Awesome service from decathlon.
I've done about 150 miles in my fujitrabuco 7s, the comfiest and best running shoes I've had, but they've ripped across the top of the toe box, sadly.
Put a review on decathlon website, straight away they contacted me, told me they'd replace or refund, no questions.
Brilliant.
So, the money I had for a new pair of ultra shoes can now be spent on a slight indulgence....
Always fancied trying the old school fell gems - Walsh pb. Anyone used them? I'd only be using them on hill races, I don't expect them to be modern day comfy, but they look like they'll grip like shite on a blanket.
Sizing? I'm size 10 shoe size, I wear size 11 road shoes, 11.5 for ultra, do I go 11? All those sizes are asics FWIW.