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Watched it all and Coogan is excellent. I think everyone should watch it. It might be criticised for not holding the BBC to account but I think the real message is we all need to be held to account. How many times have concerned people not spoken out when they feel uncomfortable because they won't be believed against some superior person or organisation?
I was in Stoke Mandeville for 3 months in 1982. My parents and wife used to visit and regularly saw Jimmy pushing trollies of bedding about and thought he was a generous eccentric. He relied on that image to get away with everything.
I do work in schools around safeguarding and tell everyone to watch it now.
Focusing on his links to Thatcher/the Tories and the Royal family is an interesting way for the BBC to deflect attention away from their own enablement of their employees behaviour.
Seems rather pathetic that nobody was able to lay a glove on him while he was still alive.
Like others have said, I had no idea he was a wrong un, when I was a kid. Just thought he was a bit of an eccentric relic.
I've got no doubt he was part of something bigger (a paedophile ring) and this is the real reason he got away with it. You don't talk your way out of that for several decades, its not even remotely plausible. He was protected and several ex police have already said so.
This was really well done I thought, great viewing if somewhat uncomfortable at times. The morgue revelation was a twist I'd not heard before.
He was definitely part of something bigger.
Turns out a friend was in Stoke Mandeville when she was 5 and remembers the gold tracksuit and him carrying bowls of sweets. Said her dad didn't leave her side for the two weeks she was there, which she now knows was on account of it being widely known what he was up to.
Annoyingly the Jim'll Fix It theme now randomly pops into my head.
Annoyingly the Jim’ll Fix It theme now randomly pops into my head.
It was a banger of theme tune. Also, great concept for a programme (as well as ideal grooming territory)
BBC has no involvement in the production or editing. I don’t think it painted them well at all, it showed them ignoring concerns or not investigating properly.
You don’t talk your way out of that for several decades, its not even remotely plausible.
Oh but it is. He came across as true sociopath too, a dangerous individual as people believed his charm and couldn’t see past the persona.
I remember, on this forum, 15 or so years ago, the rumours about him were aired. Great howls of protest went up, 'He's a great chap' or words to that effect. I met him a few years later in Glen Coe, he had bought a cottage (Allt na Reigh) from people we knew. We were surprised when he answered the door. Creepy guy telling creepy stories.
in Glen Coe, he had bought a cottage (Allt na Reigh) from people we knew.
Donkey's years ago, when someone told me it was his cottage, I thought "Wow, what a fantastic place to live".
Now, I shudder to think what could have gone on in there with nobody for miles around 🙁
I wish I could remember who interviewed him when he was still a " national treasure" when he said something along the lines of when I'm gone you'll will hear things about me you'll find very hard to believe. I'm doubting myself and wondering if I actually imagined it ? 🤔
Louis Theroux?
"He was definitely part of something bigger."
Is his outrageous character still distracting us?
The cottage in Glen Coe is always Hamish McInnes' place to us.
Oh but it is. He came across as true sociopath too, a dangerous individual as people believed his charm and couldn’t see past the persona.
But many people did see past the persona. I get what you mean but given it was possibly the worst kept secret ever and that the Police knew and were stopped from prosecuting (confirmed by ex police) then its just a fact he was protected and did not just talk his way out of every situation for decades.
desperatebicycle
Same here, it was only decades later when the rumours started. I remember thinking Louis Theroux had gone a bit easy on him watching that interview… but by then… wow, so much damage. At least that shit would be much harder to get away with nowadays.. only positive I can take from The Reckoning.
It's worth watching Louis' follow up video on it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07yc9zh/louis-theroux-specials-savile
I’ve not seen any confirmation that police were stopped from prosecuting, just that it was ignored as Jimmy wouldn’t do such a thing and there was lack of evidence other cases.
I’ve got no doubt he was part of something bigger (a paedophile ring) and this is the real reason he got away with it
I think the problem with this is that is kind of leans in towards conspiracy theory. As one of his victims said, he groomed a nation. Groomers are usually very, very good at what they do. He elevated himself to a position where no-one was prepared to be vocal about his crimes, or those who did were shut down quickly. I don't think there was a wider conspiracy of complicity.
I’ve got no doubt he was part of something bigger (a paedophile ring) and this is the real reason he got away with it.
I think the problem with this is that is kind of leans in towards conspiracy theory
Obviously some people have pushed the potential conspiracy angle on here for years. It may be true, but I doubt it.
It does help rationalise how such evil/damaged people avoid detection for so long. It also hides the uncomfortable truth that child abuse is by nature hidden, secret, and far more likely to be carried out by a close family member or friend rather than "stranger danger" or an international network of celebrity peadophiles.
Not sure how much I'll gain from watching it, know that he's a wrongun and didn't think much of him when I was a kid in the 70s - although I did once enter a fancy competition as Gary Glitter so my wrongun radar wasn't that great 😕
I remember, on this forum, 15 or so years ago, the rumours about him were aired. Great howls of protest went up, ‘He’s a great chap’ or words to that effect.
Still very much in evidence on this forum. Check out the Russell Brand thread.
"Trial by media" (whaa whaa) "Innocent until proven" (wail)
Has enough time passed that it is now understood? RB will get the same eventual acceptance that he's a dirtbag?
Has enough time passed that it is now understood? RB will get the same eventual acceptance that he’s a dirtbag
I think most people can accept he's a dirtbag. The issue is that he's not been convicted of the criminal activity that he's been accused of, which puts commenting on those allegations in a very grey legal area, that could open up individuals, and forums that give them a platform, to legal action for libel, or prejudicing a future trial etc.
Anyway, back to the programme about the guy who can no longer sue us....
Just watched that follow up with Louis , Savile certainly did a number on him . The woman who was his PA in denial , so many on there that he still seems to have a hold on from beyond the grave , so many ruined lives . <br />Listening to the description of the grooming methods reminds me of the lucky escape our son had aged about 11 . Up until that age he’d been at a special school, he would now be on the Autistic Spectrum , he worked his socks off and got into main stream school to his credit . He came home one day all excited that the electrical engineer at the Theatre next to the school was going to show him how all the lighting worked for shows and get him to give a hand backstage . Our son was really naive and saw this as an opportunity outside of school . I sensed something wasn’t quite right so decided to drop by unannounced just to see for myself . The look on the guys face when I walked up to him and introduced myself told me everything I needed to know . Despite our sons protests I stopped him going there on his own . Sure enough in time he was caught and convicted for offences against other boys . The police interviewed our son at length and were 99.9% satisfied that his grooming had only just started and my intervention was very timely .
The parallels with some of Savile’s stories is uncanny although he didn’t usually waste time on the preliminaries 😞
oldfart
I sensed something wasn’t quite right so decided to drop by unannounced just to see for myself . The look on the guys face when I walked up to him and introduced myself told me everything I needed to know . Despite our sons protests I stopped him going there on his own . Sure enough in time he was caught and convicted for offences against other boys . The police interviewed our son at length and were 99.9% satisfied that his grooming had only just started and my intervention was very timely .
Bloody hell, that's awful. My daughter sounds similar to your son so this really struck a chord with me. Great job and well done for trusting your spidey sense.
multi21 parents instinct I guess , some of Savile's victims didn't have that and some had suffered abuse from family members so in some cases didn't stand a chance.
I’ve not seen any confirmation that police were stopped from prosecuting, just that it was ignored as Jimmy wouldn’t do such a thing and there was lack of evidence other cases.
On this, how many people were convicted of doing similar things in the 70s/early 80s? Unfortunately, as we know now, child abuse and paedophilia weren't unusual, but I don't remember any high profile trials. I think that he got away with it because everyone did and he was just another celebrity who did awful things. There's no need for a conspiracy theory because in the 70s policing was corrupt and inept, and general attitudes were rather different to those of today.
I’ve got no doubt he was part of something bigger (a paedophile ring) and this is the real reason he got away with it
It seems more likely to me that he wouldn't have welcomed the competition. His ego was too big to have wanted to share, he was more likely to have viewed it as a competitive sport.
“Innocent until proven” (wail)
... is the cornerstone of our judicial system. Stringing people up from the yardarm for 'looking a bit dodgy' might win brexity voters over, but we stopped doing that for much the same reason that we stopped setting fire to witches.
Trial by angry mob rarely ends well and "trial by social media" is pretty much the modern equivalent of it. Remember that vigilante group who stormed a bloke's house a few years back because rumours ran through town that he was a pediatrician?
It was disturbing viewing but compelling at the same time. I suspect that part of why he got away with it is that some people pass it off initially but once they think there is real problem they also think they will be in trouble for not reporting sooner or are worried about their reputation for letting it continue. So they stay quiet.
I think the problem with this is that is kind of leans in towards conspiracy theory. As one of his victims said, he groomed a nation. Groomers are usually very, very good at what they do. He elevated himself to a position where no-one was prepared to be vocal about his crimes, or those who did were shut down quickly. I don’t think there was a wider conspiracy of complicity.
Again, I understand that view however its exactly this sort of attitude/initial reaction towards it that helped keep Savile going. "Oh no it couldn't possibly be true, its just a conspiracy theory". Not aiming that at you btw.
Personally I can't grasp or make sense of this 'lone gunman' theory and to me, that's far more of a conspiracy theory than the paedophile ring. Paedophile rings exist, no question. So to think Savile was part of one is nowhere near conspiracy at all. The lone gunman theory also conveniently lets many others off the hook so to speak, means no further investigating and the likes of the Royals and the BBC etc dust off their grubby hands and walk away scott free. Highly convenient.
But also...
Never attest to design, that which can be explained by apathy. or something.
Paedophile rings exist, no question. So to think Savile was part of one is nowhere near conspiracy at all.
Alligators exist, no question. Did anyone ever check his teeth? I THINK NOT!!!1!
Assuming that the drama is in any way accurate, it's fairly clear how he operated. He was charismatic, he was powerful, he was popular, he was well-loved, he was coercive, he was deeply manipulative. And as is often the case, who's going to believe the word of a 15-year old over someone like Russ- uh, Jimmy Savile?
There was no paedophile ring here, because he didn't need one.
The production is piss poor, original film shows him in a giant Merc van then cut to coogan in something only vaguely similar and has whoever did his wig ever see photos of Jimmy or just been told he has white hair?
I know these are minor things in the whole film but if you're going to include archive footage, perhaps make sure everything matches up because clearly he's an utter scumbag and has caused untold damage but if you've not done your homework in in one area it leaves you open to questions in other areas.
Also is this a whole new show? Some bits are giving me real deja vu. I'm very sure I've seen the scene where he picks up the two girls who don't really know who he is before.
The production is piss poor, original film shows him in a giant Merc van then cut to coogan in something only vaguely similar and has whoever did his wig ever see photos of Jimmy or just been told he has white hair?
Can’t recall the van scene in detail but the hair was fairly spot on and changed as as he got older.
Also is this a whole new show? Some bits are giving me real deja vu. I’m very sure I’ve seen the scene where he picks up the two girls who don’t really know who he is before.
No, it’s all brand new so you are having a Mandela Effect.
The van's were different, but I'm guessing the production used what was available.
I'm struggling to think of how to suitably word this, but I took this production as being to tell the story and give some insight into who he was, and how he treated/manipulated/abused people based on known details, not to be a 100% accurate reconstruction.
Spot on.
It was billed as a drama based on factual events and victim/witness testimony, not a reconstruction.
Also is this a whole new show? Some bits are giving me real deja vu.
Mandela Effect aside, I'm reasonably confident that some of the scenes were reconstructions of actual documentary footage. A couple of sections with Dan in particular rang bells.
Scarborough...is that Llandudno?
Scarborough…is that Llandudno?
Lol - I thought that myself a few times. It turns out that some of the filming was done in Rhos-on-sea and Llndudno.
It also said that some scenes and characters were created for dramatisation.
Last episode watched - the mortuary, is there any evidence that happened too? Other than a propensity to hang around there which is weird enough anyway. IDK why that seems even worse than the other shit he undoubtedly did - in fact rationally how can it be worse than a living person let alone a child - but that made me feel sick.
The people at the end are heartbreaking. 50 or 60 years on and still broken by it. Such a shame he never faced justice, I hope there's some peace in it now being known.
And to the 'happier' (is it?) - what a top performance by Coogan. It must be quite hard to agree to play a monster like this, even if you aren't full on method to inhabit the skin and personality even if it's just for takes, to look in the mirror and see that looking back. I think the BAFTAs can make their decisions now.
the mortuary, is there any evidence that happened too?
Irvine Welsh wrote about a necrophiliac TV personality in 1996, who roamed about a hospital and raised millions for charity.
There were rumours for years.
the mortuary, is there any evidence that happened too?
The reality appears worse than what was portayed in The Reckoning
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jun/26/savile-bodies-sex-acts-corpses-glass-eyes-mortuary
tillydogFull Member
the mortuary, is there any evidence that happened too?
The reality appears worse than what was portayed in The Reckoning
> https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jun/26/savile-bodies-sex-acts-corpses-glass-eyes-mortuary
Bloody hell. Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse. Jeez....
“ Not within accepted boundaries “ No f@@@ing shit Sherlock !!!!
We got talking to the in-laws about it last night over Sunday Dinner. They are two episodes in and didn't know the extent of the things he got up to.
It was very disconcerting when my M-I-L said that she was working at LGI when he was there in the late 60s. She said that she often saw him hanging around in the basement (apparently the canteen was down there too). She had no idea until we told her why he spent so much time down there. She also said the same as has been said by many others, that he was considered weird and creepy back then and people tried to avoid him.