I still think there may be an anti-Brexit plan here that doesn’t even require the Independents to form a party.
Quite.
All they will achieve is splitting the vote on the left and ensure the tories stay in power. Probably their intention
I don't think that's the aim (see above).
but they all treaded the middle ground and were able to set aside idealism to choose policies traditionally from each side of the divide for the benefit of the country.
As ransos pointed out they all had rather strong ideologies.
Although the conflict between the different views of Blair and Brown are interesting and reflect in the mix of policies and the sometimes seeming disfunctionality of new labour with differing policies.
You also managed to skip over the reference about hijacking parties. You only need to look at the growth in those who do not feel represented by the mainstream parties to figure the problem of pandering to the centrists.
There is also the question of how "centrist" they were. Since generally there was a bias one way on the economic side and a bit the other way.
I think they need a party behind them, tbh. 11 independents will never keep their seats.
I think they need a party behind them, tbh. 11 independents will never keep their seats.
They should probably join together with the Liberal Democrats, but under new branding as the Lib Dems are considered toxic by a large proportion of the electorate.
I mean, the left of the Tory party and the right of the Labour party are basically Lib Dems anyway! All of the defectors so far would happily fit into the Lib Dem ethos: pro business but with a healthy welfare system and socially liberal.
Conexit and Labexit by Remain MPs ......
How ironic
One of the complaints from todays Tory leavers was undue influence not only by the ERG but also the DUP, if just ten more leave then that voting majority is gone and the Deal with Arlene is worthless...
I did hear someone in the office say "What about this new 3rd party" to which a couple of us said, what about the Lib-dems?
Telling that the LDs despite being a cetrist party are pretty much irrelevant to many people now...
If the "Independant Group" do coallece into a formal party it won't be free of tensions just because they're all "Centrists" doesn't mean they'll agree on everything. Some are Centre Left and others Centre Right and there will be plenty of other issues for them to fall out over.
Perhaps it's better to have a group of independant MP's free to vote as they want without a party whip, arguably they'll be more likely to represent their constituency voters than a Party politician... Discuss.
interesting times.
I think they need a party behind them, tbh. 11 independents will never keep their seats.
As I only learnt today that in by-elections etc you vote for the individual, not the party they are a member of, if their constituents like them they may well retain their seats.
I think they need a party behind them, tbh. 11 independents will never keep their seats.
They are probably not looking that far ahead.
Just listening to their statements they made a lot of sense. Obviously Brexit was central to it but they also talked about universal credit and a sense that the Tory party is just becoming increasingly right wing and intolerant, even by their usual standards, having been hijacked by far right headbangers.
Didn't another Tory MP once made a similar observation, quite a few years back now. Something about the 'Nasty Party'? I can't remember off the top of my head who that was.....? Anyone...?
As I only learnt today that in by-elections etc you vote for the individual, not the party they are a member of
tbh honest I find that a bit scary. Not just by-elections btw, general election too. It a kind of fundamental principle to our voting system.
Telling that the LDs despite being a cetrist party are pretty much irrelevant to many people now…
Indeed. There would have been a time when some if not all of this 11 would have gone to the LDs.
Just listening to their statements they made a lot of sense.
Me too - some of the most impressive speeches by politicians I've heard in a while.
So they've been working on it for a year and
due in 2022, should the current parties be deemed to be failing. Some form of political movement could be launched later this year.
Macron went from nothing to President in that time.
Too late.
They' are looking to supplant the SNP as the third party in Westminster as that gets them more "short money" and a slot at PM questions.
All they will achieve is splitting the vote on the left and ensure the tories stay in power. Probably their intention
Lol! Of course. Do you think that's Sarah Wollaston's objective too?
Labour, or rather the leadership, have made themselves unelectable. Biggest shower of ****s running the country ever and Labour are still not able to capitalise on it.
As they made their statements they had a Tory MP on Radio 4. He was quite open in saying there were plenty of others presently 'considering their positions' due to the party having been taken over by the fruitloops of the ERG and the DUP, and 'Purple Momentum' UKIP Entryists.
Given Corbyns ongoing utter hopelessness and support for Brexit, there must be plenty of labour MPs doing the same
Its going to be an interesting week...
So they love Cameron but hate Brexit. Teflon Dave
Just watched their news conference and found them refreshingly blunt and straightforward.
Interesting no effort was made by senior party figures to keep them on board. Does that mean the hard right and hard left are also effectively re - forming the two main parties?
Tory MP on Radio 4.
He's one of the targets for UKIP entryists getting MPs deselected… so he might as well tell it as it is.
Does that mean the hard right and hard left are also effectively re – forming the two main parties?
They already have. 'Centrist' is now used as a term of abuse in both parties. To the total despair of a huge chunk of the electorate.
The loonies have well and truly taken over the asylum on both sides
11 independents and 10 DUP... Maybe they could have a billion bribe to set up a party properly... 🙂
‘Centrist’ is now used as a term of abuse in both parties. To the total despair of a huge chunk of the electorate
If a huge chunk of the electorate were despairing of the lack of a centrist option, how does that explain the position of the Liberal Democrats? I actually think this independent thing is a good thing. I don't for a second think they'll be very successful when it comes to an election, but at the very least it will give pause for thought on our political and electoral system, and we may see something change as a result of it.
Supporting Labour and Corbyn equals to supporting Brexit.
Yes, the 2017 manifesto they campaigned on did make that commitment.
If a huge chunk of the electorate were despairing of the lack of a centrist option, how does that explain the position of the Liberal Democrats?
"Yes but tuition fees."
Plenty of people will never vote Labour because of Iraq. Plenty others will never vote Tory because Thatcher. If brexit has taught us anything it's that far far too many people are stuck in the past. A rebranding is the only way we'll ever break this national inertia we're plagued by.
Let's not forget Jeremy Thorpe.
Rebranding is a bit of a shallow aim though. I think electoral/ constitutional reform is the only way past the national inertia.
Realistically they are a single issue grouping (although the labour defectors have tried to bring up other issues to attack Corbyn) so as after March 29, they will either return to the respective folds, or lose at the next election.
Having just watched the Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen news conference and as someone who'd never vote Tory, I was very impressed.
I've always hated the Party before Country approach of party politics and have been rather disappointed by Jeremy Corbin doing nothing beyond insisting that we need a general election (rather than helping sort the mess out).
It's a lot to hope that the Independent Group will succeed (and even less likely that if they did they'd not justbecome another "Party First" political party), I remember the SDP, but I found the talk of collaborating and putting the electorate and Country first rather refreshing.
I think thats the whole point, and why they've not said they're a party. It looks like a genuine attempt to do something more substantial than 're-brand
If Brexit has shown us anything, once and for all, its that our political system is totally and utterly unfit for purpose in the 21st Century.
I really really hope this is the beginning of the end for our archaic FPTP two party system
With my cynics hat on the reason they are casting themselves as a “political movement” rather than a “political
Party” is because it gives them a convenient get out on policy.
The platitudes / hope / optimism we heard at today’s press conference is all well and good but tells us nothing about their values, approach or intentions - it’s just hot air.
What will likely happen is they will find the very same divisions as they try to nail down their positions on important things and will probably have very little impact in the interim. Most voters vote party-first so without the party machine behind them they are almost certain to be voted out on to their derrieres at the next time election - there’s a chance Alexander and Wollaston may avoid that on the basis they have good local support.
so without the party machine behind them they are almost certain to be voted out on to their derrieres at the next time election
It's not doing the usual thing and putting the Party and their own political futures first and doing what they believe to be right (rather than expedient) that I find refreshing; they may well achieve nothing, but good on them for trying!
and why they’ve not said they’re a party
Keep up at the back. Chuka has already said he wants a party by the end of the year.
Its not clear the others want to join the Chuka appreciation society though.
I really really hope this is the beginning of the end for our archaic FPTP two party system
A cursory look at their records should make you dubious about their devotion to reforming the system and thats without looking at the job history of one of them.
I suspect they will be in favour of it temporarily though.
Well, if May doesn't call an election now, she's missing a big opportunity.
The only question is what sort of opportunity that would be... 🙂
IF they do become a Party what colour are they going to chose? Most of the good ones (and a shit one, UKIP) are taken.
Never underestimate the power of a name. I think the negative use of the the term 'Liberal' over recent years to describe people who might argue for a fairer society has meant that many won't even consider a vote for a party with Liberal on the ballet paper. Likewise the Greens. Toxic to a huge proportion of the population, even if their policies might make sense to most of those people. Social Democrats? Sounds a bit communist to me! It is why Labour (working people), and Conservatives (sensible, thinking people), will continue to get votes from the masses.
So what does the new party call itself then?
Ideas on a postcard, please.
Name is a tough one, an acronym could be better
Might need to be checked by more than one person...
I like Non Aligned Independants- well done OP
So what does the new party call itself then?
Ideas on a postcard, please.
"Indy Centrists"
or
"The Indy Party"
I like Non Aligned Independants
Leaving aside the logical flaw of how you can have non aligned independent party anything with independent in the title is likely to run into problems with the Electoral commission. Since it would confuse actual independent candidates with the funny tinge party.
I did hear someone in the office say “What about this new 3rd party” to which a couple of us said, what about the Lib-dems?
Oh I don't know... who are the 3rd biggest party in Westminster?
by membership:
As of April 2018, Labour had 540,000 members, compared to just under 125,500 SNP members as of August 2018, and 124,000 Conservative members reported in March 2018. As of August 2018, The Liberal Democrats had 99,200, Green Party 39,400, UKIP 23,600 and Plaid Cymru 8,000 members. Party membership has risen notably since 2013, both in total and as a percentage of the electorate.ghgh
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05125
Great photo
Just watched their news conference and found them refreshingly blunt and straightforward.
That is because they have no manifesto, no party line, no leader. They can say exactly what they want. All MPs should be independent with no party alignment. Then you really would be voting for what your MP stands for and the actions they take.
Not sure how parliament would work with 600+ independent MPs but couldn't be any worse than current system
“The Indy Party”
I’d vote for them if the candidates name was Anna Jones
I wonder how this will effect MPs still within Parties who perhaps don't agree with their leaders?
The whip system was always a powerful one, if you're not familiar a '3 line whip' that's been mentioned a lot recently basically means "vote, and vote as we tell you, or leave the Party" - it was always the ultimate threat for MPs, but now, whilst still very risky - there is a home for those who no longer fit in with their party (well, as long as you're alighted with the 11 I assume).
Yeah, the stakes are high for all of us, but I don't remember the last time UK politics was so interesting.
surroundedbyhills
Subscriber
party membership also doesn't really mean much beyond a nice feel good factor for the members going on that evidence.
The more members the less need for big business donations? Labour was broke before J.C took over.
