Yeah, but there's a magazine, so there's that.
I quite like the anpr ones especially at CYB which is incapable of reading our bog standard numberplate everytime we go
Kelvin that's a commercial decision for the car park owner, if they want to exclude some customers through the service they are offering because they deem it more cost effective that's their choice.
Personally I don't like the apps much, I have pay by phone and am quite used to using a smart phone but would still rather pay at a machine (using my smart phone ironically). If yoi had quoted my full TLDR post you would have seen i'm advocating for apps and card terminals.
The best solution would be to use your camera to scan a QR code on a sign which takes you to a website to pay, no need to download an app. Trouble is QR codes can be altered with a sticker and it would be a scammers paradise.
Glentress had Ringo last time I went. Didn't work as the reception is poor and I ran out of "send code" options. Machine wasn't taking card payment.
Had to go to another car park to pay.
Kelvin that’s a commercial decision for the car park owner
Of course it is… or whoever has the rights to control the charging (not always the owner, sometimes sold on to a third party)… we’re bemoaning the obvious downsides of it. In the OP’s case for non-members of NT…which isn’t exactly cheap to join, even if it is good value for many.
The best solution would be to use your camera to scan a QR code on a sign which takes you to a website to pay, no need to download an app.
Many points of failure there. And potential for spoofing and phishing. Just let people pay with the secure non-cash methods they use all the time.
to get a PCN you need to be seen entering and leaving, and going in the right direction each time,
Wait these can be defeated by reversing?
so, far from the best solution then! Apps are preferable as simpler for people to understand & more secure.The best solution would be to use your camera to scan a QR code on a sign which takes you to a website to pay, no need to download an app. Trouble is QR codes can be altered with a sticker and it would be a scammers paradise.
No reversing doesn't confuse the camera, they can tell whether you are moving towards them or away, the measure the height of the digits on the number plate, if they are getting bigger the car is heading towards the camera. Moving towards or away is then set camera by camera as in or out.
I did point out that QR codes aren't secure I my post above, being able to pay on your phonewithout having to download an app would be ideal but we don't have a secure way to do it.
The best solution would be to use your camera to scan a QR code on a sign which takes you to a website to pay, no need to download an app.
You obviously missed the days when a QR code could be used to factory reset a Samsung phone without any user intervention. Any bug like that occurs again and people will be replacing QR codes for a laugh again!
Why take my bloody phone for a day out?
Again, why not? What possible reason can someone have for not taking it. It’s not a bloody walkie talkie that you have to lug around, even a large phone like my iPhone 14 Pro Max will happily fit into any pocket on any shorts or trousers that I wear. It’s my camera whenever I go out for a walk, I’ve got a couple of mapping apps that use OS mapping if I need it, and there’s always the possibility of an emergency occurring, requiring help - and not necessarily for yourself…
Sorry, but that seems to be just bloody-minded contrariness for the sake of it, especially for a day out!
I’ve had more than a few issues with parking meters and machines that require yet another app, or texting or whatever, usually ending in not bothering and going elsewhere. I have noticed recently though that many more meters and machines have a couple of QR codes added, which just require a registration to be tapped in, and a time, and that’s it, seems to work pretty well, especially now I hardly ever have cash available to pay. I’ve wondered for some time why the machines don’t have a contactless option, but thinking about it, adding QR codes is cheap and simple and requires no extra money or connectivity to function, and no need for the customer to faff around trying to install yet another stupid app that doesn’t work because there’s no network for that customers phone.
Pay by app/ Ampr system would be great if, and it's a big if, it was just one app/account required. I drive a lot and the best system I've seen by far is Poland's Auto-pay, one app, one account covers tolls, carparking, carwashes etc automatically, no need to interact with the app at all. Here in UK I've got about 20 different accounts for tolls, congestion charge, low emission zones etc. I can only remember trying to use pay by app carparks twice and it's not worked either time.
Well we did have stickers whcih were the ticket but no idea if we still do. They day I need a phone to pay will be the day of a very rude letter to NT. Why take my bloody phone for a day out?
How often do you actually go out without your phone?
For me it's never, and it's been this way since I got my first mobile back in the mid-90's.
And since been introduced to ApplePay last year (old man luddite) I now often don't bother taking my wallet with me, especially if local.
US national parks are similar, app/pay by web payment (in the few incidences we've had anyway)
As a tourist, with Canadian cell providers charging $12/day for US roaming we take the opportunity to force disconnect from phones and stay in airplane mode but still have them as cameras/navigation/googlepay.
Therefore, parking is either $12 more or park outside for free with the others doing the same.
one app [I]would[/I] be ideal, but no, it's not a problem if not. It's just unfamiliarity with new technology that makes it seem like it is. I mean, you manage to cope with companies not sharing the same website, or all shops not being at the same address, or all your friends not just sharing one phone number? 😂Pay by app/ Ampr system would be great if, and it’s a big if, it was just one app/account required.
It's not a problem zilog6128, just an announce. I love technology that makes my life easier, like the Polish system I mentioned but sitting in a layby for 20 minutes with crap phone signal trying to pay a couple of quid for driving over the Mersey bridge really isn't helping anyone is it?
yeah, the solution is just give everyone 24hrs to pay (tolls/parking/etc) which is what the Dartford crossing allows, works well as you can just do it when you get home/to your hotel or whatever.but sitting in a layby for 20 minutes with crap phone signal trying to pay a couple of quid for driving over the Mersey bridge really isn’t helping anyone is it?
Its bloody annoying for older folks, like my parents, who are not that familiar with apps. Or those who arrive at a rural car park (i.e. the lakes) with crappy phone signals and zero alternative parking options.
one app would be ideal, but no, it’s not a problem if not. It’s just unfamiliarity with new technology that makes it seem like it is. I mean, you manage to cope with companies not sharing the same website, or all shops not being at the same address, or all your friends not just sharing one phone number? 😂
I hate digital clutter.
It's irrationally irritating to have that many apps cluttering up my phone. Especially after a couple of years when the memory starts to fill up and you question why a parking app that all it needs to do is link to a webpage is taking up 300MB.
but sitting in a layby for 20 minutes with crap phone signal trying to pay a couple of quid for driving over the Mersey bridge really isn’t helping anyone is it?
That one definitely gives you a day to pay it.
It is mildly annoying when you pay 50p for 2hrs and a 20p (40%) convenience fee. Especially as downloading and setting up the app isn't convenient and makes you borderline late for a doctor appointment that was made 3weeks earlier.
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Above.
You're in Hawick:
- there are no traffic wardens in the Scottish Borders
- there are dozens of roads you could park on within 100 yds of that car park
- it's RingGo which is pretty much the most popular app (that I've experienced)
And are you saying they've taken away the ability to pay cash?
And are you saying they’ve taken away the ability to pay cash?
I wouldn't be surprised, Stirling did. Where one leads the rest follow like the sheep they are.
At least you can pay for it there though, in North Ayrshire they put contactless readers in that don't work with Google Pay, the alternative being to text a 65001 style number. Which I can't do because I'm not on a main network and seemingly nobody in a position of implementing this shite knew that those numbers only work on the main carriers and a very small number of piggybackers.
All fine. But “pay by an app that you haven’t got, might not be able to use, and don’t want to engage with” is not a fair equivalent to “pay using your normal non cash payment method”… far from it.
id just counter that by saying that since virtually everywhere stopped taking cash in Covid times I no longer carry cash (and even precovid was not that likely to have the right coins) so arriving at a car park that expects coins is a PITA. If it’s rural there is no east option to pop to a cash machine either.
Given the NT demographic is there really no option to call someone with your card details like Ringo? There will be a tiny number of people who don’t have a phone at all (those people should probably pause to think about how they will get help if they breakdown etc as very few phone boxes now) and a bigger number who don’t have a smartphone or a data contract that lets them download a new app. I guess those people, who chose not to modernise have the option to simply not pay and run the risk of a penalty with a “£60 convenience charge” (I am guessing the value).
personally if I was a regular visitor to a NT estate to walk/run etc I’d be inclined to join to support their work. Whilst people will protest at the cost anyone who can afford to “own” and operate a car along with the running costs of that car on purely discretionary journeys like going for a walk can afford membership. If £6 a month is really impossible, stop wasting fuel driving to pretty car parks.
Its bloody annoying for older folks, like my parents, who are not that familiar with apps. Or those who arrive at a rural car park (i.e. the lakes) with crappy phone signals and zero alternative parking options.
Mine now can't use their two favourite beaches because of this.
My father can't walk far enough to make parking elsewhere viable.
They can both use technology, ok, not well, but my mother uses what's app as her main communication method for example so they aren't complete technophobes, but they can't work these apps and therefore can't use their two favourite beaches. They used to just put some coins in a slot, it was foolproof
yeah, the solution is just give everyone 24hrs to pay (tolls/parking/etc) which is what the Dartford crossing allows, works well as you can just do it when you get home/to your hotel or whatever.
The only time I ever use Dartford is going to from Dover
It is a pain in the backside trying to do it from France and also it doesn't recognise my van as a camper and charges me van rates incorrectly. A man in a toll booth can see it's a camper and charge accordingly (yes, I know that one is a bit niche, but trying to find a signal in France and then convince your bank that you are indeed you just abroad must be pretty common)
complete technology fail sorry 😃 you can (and should!) pre-register with your bank via their app that you're going abroad & pre-register with the Dartford crossing so they've got your details correct (and all take the payment). Also, I often get connected to a French network when on the beach in Walmer - the signal is that strong - so I struggle to believe you really can't get a signal when actually in France having just gotten off the ferry or train! 😂yes, I know that one is a bit niche, but trying to find a signal in France and then convince your bank that you are indeed you just abroad must be pretty common)
you can (and should!) pre-register with your bank via their app that you’re going abroad & pre-register with the Dartford crossing.
Really? Is that a thing? I've never told any of my banks that I'm going abroad and I've only got apps for 2 of the 4 that I use. Never had a problem and I travel regularly.
I also don't think it's reasonable to expect people to pre-register with the Dartford cross either, lots of people probably don't even know there is a toll to pay.
We all need zilog6128 as our digital PR. Seems pre-prepared for everything AND always has a strong enough signal everywhere to download more apps and set them up.
a lot of people, maybe, someone who has clearly travelled through it on the way to Dover before though should!!I also don’t think it’s reasonable to expect people to pre-register with the Dartford cross either, lots of people probably don’t even know there is a toll to pay.
yeah, it's a thing, has been before the days of internet banking! Have you never had a call from your bank querying a payment from a foreign country (or more disastrously them just blocking your card!!), lucky if so!Really? Is that a thing? I’ve never told any of my banks that I’m going abroad
I would take that role 😃 Just need to encourage people to embrace new technology, rather than be scared or intimidated by it. I actually have lots of practise with this on my parents, they're probably amongst the most clued-up 80 year olds around. If they can handle this kind of stuff, anyone can 😂We all need zilog6128 as our digital PR.
a lot of people, maybe, someone who has clearly travelled through it on the way to Dover before though should!!I also don’t think it’s reasonable to expect people to pre-register with the Dartford cross either, lots of people probably don’t even know there is a toll to pay.
yeah, it's a thing, has been before the days of internet banking! Have you never had a call from your bank querying a payment from a foreign country (or more disastrously them just blocking your card!!), lucky if so!Really? Is that a thing? I’ve never told any of my banks that I’m going abroad
I would take that role 😃 Just need to encourage people to embrace new technology, rather than be scared or intimidated by it, or write it off simply because it's new to them. I actually have lots of practise with this on my parents, they're probably amongst the most clued-up 80 year olds around tech wise! 🤓 If they can handle this kind of stuff, anyone can 😂We all need zilog6128 as our digital PR.
Unlikely to have to inform your payment provider you are going abroad in order to pay for small items like tolls, tickets, meals etc in person. [ used to work in IT for a bank ]
Just need to encourage people to embrace new technology, rather than be scared or intimidated by it.
Or just bored, frustrated and irritated by it. There are poor use and implementations of technology that fail to make life easier. Dedicated app only paying for transitory use is one of those things that it is a hassle people don’t want. It’s fine for something you do every month, for example paying for a pay as you go mobile [ something else I’ve been involved in developing in the past ], but not for one off visits and journeys.
yeah, it’s a thing, has been before the days of internet banking! Have you never had a call from your bank querying a payment from a foreign country (or more disastrously them just blocking your card!!), lucky if so!
Once recently trying to use Google pay to pay for a ferry across lake constance but that's the only time. (Luckily I had a few Euros in my bag or it would have been a long dark ride back to my van)
I've just looked on both my Lloyds and Barclays apps and I can't see anything obvious to notify them I'm traveling abroad.
I travel around Europe most weeks so international transactions probably don't flag up as suspicious.
Most major banks have said they do not need you to tell them when you go abroad these days. If they find something odd they will send a verification text first rather than just simply block it.
I was responding to the poster who literally says that's what happened 🤷♂️ Besides, takes 1 min on the app so you might as well, you never know if you'll unexpectedly have to make a larger payment if something crops up!Unlikely to have to inform your payment provider you are going abroad in order to pay for small items like tolls
yeah fair enough, just googled and they both say don't bother. I use Natwest, and they like to be told!!I’ve just looked on both my Lloyds and Barclays apps and I can’t see anything obvious to notify them I’m traveling abroad.
well yes, that is the theme of the entire thread if you follow it & what everyone (including me) is saying!There are poor use and implementations of technology that fail to make life easier.
I was responding to the poster who literally says that’s what happened
They were using a new app or making an online small payment abroad. That’ll raise flags that an in person transaction with card/phone will not.
Most major banks have said they do not need you to tell them when you go abroad these days. If they find something odd they will send a verification text first rather than just simply block it.
This. You used to have to notify them but it changed a few years back
I'm not sure what the issue is really, there are 2/3 major parking apps yes it's a faff the 1st time you download them but then they're there. How often do you go out without a phone? I'm more likely to not have a wallet with me generally and even if I do it'll rarely have cash.
If I'm using a card I'd rather use the app so I'm not standing waiting in a queue whilst someone hunts for their last 5p, and I can then always extend the parking if I'm overrunning which has been useful on a fair few occasions.
I’m not sure what the issue is really,
It's because it's not like the old days which were so much better. We are, as a species, resistant to and fearful of things changing.
It's only a couple of years ago that folk were complaining that card-only payments became prevalent because of covid, now we're going "an app, why can't I just use contactless on my card?"
All fine. But “pay by an app that you haven’t got, might not be able to use, and don’t want to engage with” is not a fair equivalent to “pay using your normal non cash payment method”… far from it.
But how about “pay by a non cash payment method that you haven’t got, might not be able to use, and don’t want to engage with” versus “pay using your normal app”?
Not to pick on this post particularly, other contributors have said similar. The implication is that one form of payment is normal and another alien. But for me the opposite is true. I always have my phone; I sometimes (increasingly rarely) have a wallet containing cards; I probably have an emergency tenner in my back pocket; I never have loose coinage unless I've had to break the aforementioned tenner. Your normal, or my normal, is not everyone's normal.
A few have said "why should I take a mobile phone on a day out?" or similar.
Leaving aside "why wouldn't you, what do you have one for then?" for a moment; you're in a car park needing to pay for parking and you can't think of anywhere that you might be able to lock it up before heading out on foot?
Why should you take a mobile on a day out? Uh, to pay for parking? Is it more convenient to have a fistful of coins sloshing about in a pocket?
Have we so quickly forgotten the days of coin-only parking? "No change given" when parking is £2.10 and you only have pound coins. Having exact change but the machine doesn't yet accept newly introduced coins, or won't take coin denominations smaller than 10p. Running to a nearby shop in a panic to get change and then get back before you get a ticket. All the shops in a 50 yard radius refusing to give change without a purchase because they're sick of this shit every half an hour daily they "can't open the till." Wandering around the car park begging that that someone might give you 20p ("I've got 13p in pennies if you want it!") Out Of Order machines because someone's tried to raid it, please pay at other machine conveniently located half a mile away. Sprinting across town like Usain Bolt to get back to the car and put more money on because you were in the café when you suddenly realise that your payment expired 15 minutes ago. Etc etc.
The implication is that one form of payment is normal and another alien. But for me the opposite is true. I always have my phone; I sometimes (increasingly rarely) have a wallet containing cards;
And you can do contactless payment with either card or phone.
Imagine if every transaction became “download this app to pay”… with every new place of purchase insisting on a download. It would be a pain in the arse. Where as tap to pay (with card or phone or watch) is fast, simple, secure, convenient and quite rightly ubiquitous. The app only approach is the seller putting their needs ahead of the customer, and is only adopted where the seller considers the customers as already captured with no easy means to shop for alternatives. A shop wouldn’t insist on an app payment only approach, because they know customers wouldn’t stand for it.
It's about choice. Having watched someone standing on top of a wall waving their phone in the air to trying to get enough signal to download pay to park, I am not sure apps are the way forward.
If there was one parking app then no huge issue except if you don't want to have a smart phone. If you don't own a phone.
It's not unreasonable to want an alternative.
This. You used to have to notify them but it changed a few years back
OMG do people really use their Debit Card for buying stuff, home AND abroad?
If it's app only it's also almost certain to be more environmentally beneficial as it just requires a sign with details rather than a/multiple permanently powered up electrical machine/s (with a network connection if it's card enabled) printing single use tickets. It's a less of a security risk as it's not holding cash either.
OMG do people really use their Debit Card for buying stuff, home AND abroad?
Abroad yes, it's got lower ForEx costs than the credit card.
Imagine if every transaction became “download this app to pay”… with every new place of purchase insisting on a download. It would be a pain in the arse.
Pretty much how ATM cards started in the UK. There was competition between banks rather than interoperability. It'd be unheard of today to ask someone where the nearest cashpoint was and have them answer "well... who are you with?" I expect that the parking apps will go the same way, there will eventually be a dominant player who has bought out (or forced out) all the others.
Where as tap to pay (with card or phone or watch) is fast, simple, secure, convenient and quite rightly ubiquitous.
... but has no direct way of tying your payment back to your parked car. You'd either still need a ticket printer to Pay & Display, or use one of those hateful "key in your registration" keypads.
It’s about choice.
...
It’s not unreasonable to want an alternative.
Agreed 100%.
