[Closed] The Hippies are coming....again!...

I wonder how many of them are going by car.

Which of course invalidates their point completely. Like all those people who go on about rising CO2 levels while having the temerity to BREATHE. 🙄

[img] [/img]

I wonder how many of them are going by car.

I suspect very few.

Hippycrits.

Um, while I applaud their cause (not their behaviour), wouldn't they be best off demonstrating in countries which are not attempting to combat climate change? I would suggest China and India as a start as two of the worlds largest polluters and who have refused to sign the G8 emissions goal. See how their police treat them!
I'm not a labout fan, but there have been significant changes to legislation to combat CC. There's always more to be done but at least we've started.

Yes, of course. [i]Anyone[/i] who feels like protesting about [i]anything[/i] in Britain should go and protest somewhere where things are worse. 🙄

bh: Emissions per head are much higher here than in India or China.
They'd be better off demonstrating in Oz or the US.

Or, to save travelling, and because they are UK citizens - why not here?

Fair play to them. Somewhere between the status quo and their idealism lies a happy middle ground.

Not the point and irrelevant. it's an excuse for a ruck.
They'll just get beat up by the rozzers again and start bleating and crying "oooh the police are sooooo rough". Go to effing Brazil and riot. see what happens, dirty ****s.
We're doing a lot more here to combat CC than many places. Even if we do more, our emissions are so small in the scheme that it won't made a blind bit of difference to the world. So, if they really really want to make a difference; go riot where it matters, where the govts don't care.
Does anyone think that the US or anywhere pays any attention to our civil disorder? ha. India and chinas emmissions are increasing at an alarming rate, and what does per capita matter? maybe they should go to luxembourg instead then?

while I applaud their cause

Yes of course you do.

That's why you're suggesting that they board planes to China and India, where they can, quote : [i]"See how their police treat them"[/i]

Clearly this is a cause very close to your heart backhander.

The Climate Camp at the G20 protests earlier in the year was [i]entirely peaceful[/i]. It was that element of the event which featured a police baton charge against a large crowd of people standing with their hands in the air shouting "this is not a riot". It was one of the elements of the policing of the event that came in for particular criticism in the IPCC's report on the disturbances.

But don't let that sort of thing stop you running your mouth off. 😉

"Somewhere between the status quo and their idealism lies a h[b]i[/b]ppy middle[b]class[/b] ground."

fixed it for ya.

🙂

Ernie, my job is to assist large oranisations reduce their energy usage.
While I realise that I'm paid for this, I'm also quite proud to be doing my bit, are you?
I expect you're full of your normal guardian inspired vitriol and talk a good game but actually [i]do[/i] eff all.

While I realise that I'm paid for this, I'm also quite proud to be doing my bit, are you?

Am I what ?

Paid to 'reduce my energy usage' ? .......... Or proud of you ?

I saw a bunch of the climate camp people eating at McDonalds on Bath rd (by Heathrow) last year. Sadly I was driving and didn't have a camera with me otherwise it'd have made a great one what with them on bikes with their banners tucking into Satan's own fast food.

where does it sat that I'm paid to reduce my energy usage?
avoiding the question? you should go into politics, you are very politician-like.

[i]I suspect very few. [/i]

Still too many then.

where does it sat that I'm paid to reduce my energy usage?

You're quite right, you didn't say that you were paid to reduce your energy usage.

You said that you are paid to "assist large oranisations reduce their energy usage."

So you are asking if I am too ? No I'm not.

there is some seriously ignorant bullshit being spouted on here.

the climate people are entirely peaceful and were treated shamefully by the police at the g20.

comments like 'dog-on-a-string' just illustrate how blinkered and middleclass the poster is, it has no bearing the people who feel confident and passionate enough to get off their arses, take a day off work and take direct, non-violent action to highlight the cause that they support.

dog on a string? you prat

Still too many then.

Well actually I was erring on the side of caution - I should imagine there won't be any at all. Where the **** do you expect them to park ?

is this the same Backhander who earlier asked about a gas guzzling lump of an old Volvo. hows about reducing your own energy usage you bl00dy hypocrite

[i]it has no bearing the people who feel confident and passionate enough to get off their arses, take a day off work[/i]

They work! 😯

dog on a string? you prat

TBH I found the 'dog-on-a-string' comment quite amusing.

In fact, I've always found Stoner's prejudices hugely entertaining.

darrell, you have no idea about my personal circumstances so I'll thank you not to judge.

comments like 'dog-on-a-string' just illustrate how blinkered and middleclass the poster is

is it a crime to be middle class or something ? seems like a polemic argument that brings out prejudice on both sides

comments like 'dog-on-a-string' just illustrate how blinkered and middleclass the poster is

🙄

oh look, someone let the twit with the faulty irony sensor out.
Oh, its OK, its only yossarian again getting his knickers all tangled.

They work!

I knwo 4 people heading up today (by train) and they all work. People with dreadlocks have jobs too you know - mainly in record shops I'll grant you 🙂

i bought a new bike - making me an eco warrior.

the factory that made it was probably powered by happy thoughts and rainbows.

Because i own 5 bikes, i'm 5 times better for 'the environment' than someone who just gets home from work and watches X-factor.

perhaps i should buy a hyrbrid car - to [s]let even more people see how great i am[/s] do even more good for the environment...

Be a peaceful day in Malvern with all the tree-hugging hippies/druids out of town 😀

Be a peaceful day in Malvern with all the tree-hugging hippies/druids out of town

yeah, i'll be able to walk through totnes without hearing a single lute.

Might I suggest that some of you enlist in 'Polite Debate 101', please? There is no need to personalise this.

backhander - Member

darrell, you have no idea about my personal circumstances so I'll thank you not to judge.

LOL ! Yeah .....'cause of course, you wouldn't want to be 'judgemental' .... eh backhander ?

ffs

[i]yeah, i'll be able to walk through totnes without hearing a single lute.
[/i]

LOL

I think it'll be quieter in cheltenham than malvern - I dont think all our oldies will make it up to London and back before Murder She Wrote starts.

why are they all so POSH. Presumably its an alternative gap year before getting a job as marketing manager for Somerfields.

Knew a guy who was at the first Gulf War peace camp - they spent most of their time arguing about whether to shoot the stray dogs that were plaguing their compound..

Ernie, you don't count.

In fact, I've always found Stoner's prejudices hugely entertaining.

tick, particularly the defence of them 😉

[i]People with dreadlocks have jobs too you know - mainly in record shops I'll grant you [/i]

lol!

im defending nothing.

whereas you're all smilies and emoticons all of a sudden?
Maybe you should let the caffine out of your system before you post first in future....

[i]Might I suggest that some of you enlist in 'Polite Debate 101', please? There is no need to personalise this.[/i]

It is a common feature of all "environmental" debates on this forum, and possibly in the world, that they are entirely personal. This is because it is believed that unmasking an opponent's "hypocrisy" is the silver bullet that will win any environmental argument. This is not true of most other arguments (No-one really tries to prove, say, that someone who mistreats gypsies is a hypocrite because they don't also mistreat orphans.) It is not clear why this is so, but it seems to have something to do with the total impossibility of agreeing any [u]facts[/u] on the one hand, and the difficulty of divining exactly what cause a particular group of slightly scruffy people may be protesting about. 🙂

Maybe you should let the caffine out of your system before you post first in future....

sorry stoner, I'm generally a happy chappy and like the banter but i thought your comment was crass and called you on it, the end. No need to get bent up, lets move on.

[i]i thought your comment was crass[/i]

you're problem, not mine, if you cant take a joke.

lets move on.

you're problem, not mine, if you cant take a joke.

Well TF for your last post Stoner. For a moment there, I thought this thread might degenerate into some sort of gentlemanly 'debate'.

yeah, i'll be able to walk through totnes without hearing a single lute.

Having lived there i was once invited to Dance for world peace (which if it worked I would have) but said I was to busy as I had to bake a cake too end nucleur power ...they gave me a hug and wished me luck 🙄

Back on topic BD make some good points in terms of environmental impact we area ll guilty of doing some harm just some of us are trying harder than others ot reduce this harm.
To aid debate turning vegan is the single best thing you can do to reduce your carbon footprint (well suicide is better to be fair but a little too radical for most).
Peace out

My pleasure.

Now, has anyone seen any crusties mingling near picadilly circus yet?

This is because it is believed that unmasking an opponent's "hypocrisy" is the silver bullet that will win any environmental argument.

To be fair, some of these people show almost breathtaking levels of sanctimoniousness. But most don't.

I think Stoner has probably had some hurtful comments about his plans to build an environmentally friendly house fuelled by energy from windmills and baby poo, and is looking to do a bit of displacement? 🙂

Junkyard - veganism AND sterility.

Almost darwinistic 🙂

[i]fuelled by energy from windmills and baby poo,[/i]

ive got the Mastiles-fanylions twins on contract. The scots can take their oil, im fuel self sufficient for the next few years at least 😉

BTW, stoner did you get any joy with the air source heat pump stuff I gave you?

yep - thanks for that.

Ive spent the last month or so doing more research and decided to go for a pellet boiler fed thermal store. Additional thermal sources coming from a wood stove back boiler and at a later date maybe solar panels.

I decided that the air/ground source pump thing wouldnt necessarily be a great step forward because of the reliance on electricty (and potential for power costs to keep going up), where as pellet sources look to have a more stable growth in supply (and hence stability in price).

Why don't you just weave your own fuel out of yogurt and camel pubes, you filthy crusty!

camel pubes are an unsustainable source of fuel.

Camel pube pluckers are becoming hard to find.

camel pubes are an unsustainable source of fuel.

Camel pube pluckers are becoming hard to find.

I've done some work with this kit, too. There are some "watch-its";
Very low profit in the pellets and so can be difficult to source which has resulted in certain co's importing pellets from abroad which obviously negates the reasons for having biofuel. Check maintenance costs, too. Obvoiusly you're going to be emitting carbon, and the filters required for this can be pricey. There has been problems with the fuel delivery systems also (hoppers and conveyors), buy from a reputable manufacturer. Mainly check the supplier of the fuel is FC approved and does not source from overseas. Wood chip is easier to source in my experience.

It's reduce, reuse, recycle.

It's not argue, whinge, get defensive, attack easy targets, shift blame onto others, try and wriggle out of your responsibilities.

If it were, the world would be right as rain.

cheers backhander. have clocked that lot and checked on local suppliers.

Ive also started the Malvern Conservators thinking about buying a pellet maker to make the most of their wood waste. could be interesting.

molgrips, as for reduce, reuse, recycle, I completely agree. Am starting a barn conversion (reuse of existing construction gets bonus points) and taking the opportunity to build it as low an energy house as possible both through insulation as well as planned heating systems, rainwater capture for toilet flushing, low energy lighting, etc. other things Im working on include moving to internet file storage for example (see other thread) so that I dont need to keep a server on all the time and can move to lower energy laptop when the existing power hungry desktop finally croaks. Underfloor heating is good for us as we work from home, so have to keep the house habitable for much of the day. Im no angel, but I reckon Im doing a fair bit.

Stoner - are you stocked up with plenty of tins and ammo ?

I have to say Im very impressed (& slightly envious) of anyone who has managed a degree of energy independency through their own efforts - good stuff & thumbs up!

As for becoming vegan to help World Peace? No chance - thats a great way to start a ruck if you ask me 😉

the peasants are revolting Gus. Arent you getting ready too?

Anyway, the more pressing problem is that I have nowhere to store the wine collection 🙁 Im considering digging a pit, but I may just have to drink it all...

No problems stoner, if you need any help or info on anything else, let me know. Are you going for a rainwater harvest system? PV?

cheers bh.

Going for a very lo-tech rain.water capture: an external 600l elevated tank with filtered output into the downstairs bog. Manual supply changeover to the cistern for mains or rainwater (avoids water regs problems - Im trying to avoid having to install lots of headers and valves). Will also have an output to an irrigation system for veg beds.

Not doing PV yet nor wind. costs per kwh of capacity just arent that compelling yet even with feed in tariffs.

Fair enough, I probably wouldn't either yet.
No streams on the estate? I believe that hydro is an attractive option.

unfortunately not.
If there was I would have a go at a heath robinson turbine for a laff! 🙂

[u]crusty-update[/u]

they appear to be coming this way...may go and have a looky-see later

[i]12.37pm: Looks like the protesters plan to play a cat and mouse game with the police for the meantime. No specific meeting point has apparently been announced yet and instead campers are being told to move out from the swoop points around central London. About 200 cycling protesters, who have been massing at Waterloo, are now heading north over London Bridge, while around another 200 campers are marching from St James's Park to Trafalgar Square.[/i]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/aug/26/climate-camp-climate-change

Does one really need a Twitter account to get news these days?

it would appear so.
Which is a bit crap given we cant see twitterings behind the co. firewall here.

Oh joy. Another chance for trustafarians to pretend to care about something and for the unwashed rentamob oiks to pick a fight under the auspices of someone else's cause. All the while costing scads of cash to police, not to mention clean up after. Marvellous.

If it's any consolation CFH, Ive just looked out of the office window over Traflagar square and cant see any hoards despite being informed that "Those gathered at Trafalgar Square are apparently playing with a giant inflatable globe."

May turn out to be a bit of a damp squib this one.

Stoner - Member
Junkyard - veganism AND sterility.

Almost darwinistic

Yikes I googled this and got this

[url= http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=veganism+and+sterility&meta=&aq=f&oq= ]spooky[/url]

PS CPT they thank you for your taxes and laugh at your work ethic

Is it going to cost a fortune to police, or are they going to spend a fortune on policing? 😉

Is it going to cost a fortune to police, or are they going to spend a fortune on policing? 😉

Junkyard - ive noticed that happen before. I think google recognises that STW is the central repositry of all knowledge so references the forum top of each search results. This of course causes problems when Singletrackers go off to google for information on a subject and end up circling the interwebplughole until they collapse into a singularity of self-congratulatory smugness and burning ostriches 🙂

for the unwashed rentamob oiks to pick a fight under the auspices of someone else's cause. All the while costing scads of cash to police, not to mention clean up after. Marvellous.

Is there another countryside alliance demo on cap'n ?

I think you probably sum it up quite well there Flashheart.

I reckon that these so-called protesters, like you, don't give a toss about climate change or the environment.
Although I must say they do a good job of keeping up the pretences.

Yes, I think it's just an excuse to wade in and beat the crap out of a load of peaceful coppers.

Well spotted mate.

we cant see twitterings behind the co. firewall here

Tried dabr.co.uk or tweetgrid.com?

'peaceful coopers?'

are they running barrel making courses?

Ernie, somewhat tongue in cheek there....! I agree that there are many of those present who do really care, but I also feel that a large part of this sort of thing is made of the other two groups I mentioned. Shame that they're the ones that most detract from what could be a worthy cause.

I don't know what you mean yossarian ....... 🙄

how ironic

The edit function is killing STW pedantry. 🙂