Its [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/apr/30/prison-uniforms-perks-chris-grayling ]bloody inhumane[/url] is what it is!
[i]All convicted male prisoners are to be required to wear prison uniform for the first two weeks of their sentence under a shakeup of life in jail ordered by the justice secretary, Chris Grayling.
The changes, to be announced on Tuesday, will also mean prisoners losing automatic access to gym equipment and daytime television. [/i]
What are they going to do with themselves if they can't watch Homes Under the Hammer, or Cash in the Attic? Or build up their upper body strength to be better at mugging people when they get out?
[i]The 4,000 offenders in privately run prisons will also lose access to satellite subscription channels, such as Sky Sports. Prisoners in all jails will not be allowed to watch daytime television in their cells when they should be working or engaging in purposeful activities. [/i]
And no premiership football, or movie channels either? Its going to be like some sort of Dickensian hell!!!!
The 4,000 offenders in privately run prisons will also lose access to satellite subscription channels, such as Sky Sports. Prisoners in all jails will not be allowed to watch daytime television in their cells when they should be working or engaging in purposeful activities.
Welcome to the real world of work
In fairness, in all the times I'm been in Armley Prison, I've never seen a TV in a prisoners cell, I've never seen anyone in their own clothes and actually, it doesn't look all that fun. Armley is a a proper prison though, not just a naughty chaps holiday camp for politicians!
Hear hear!
They should be employed in something useful, not only to fund their food and lodging, but also to pay off the invoice which they should have been issued to cover the costs of the policing and courts which led to the conviction.
Bit of free telly when off shift is OK. BBC/C4 News or something.
Or build up their upper body strength to be better at mugging people when they get out?
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I thought we'd cut back so much on rehabilitation funding that the problem was a lack of 'purposeful activities' in prisons.....
Binners, you are naughty.
In fairness, in all the times I'm been in Armley Prison, I've never seen a TV in a prisoners cell, I've never seen anyone in their own clothes and actually, it doesn't look all that fun. Armley is a a proper prison though, not just a naughty chaps holiday camp for politicians![\quote]
Agreed, been in Winson Green several times, and it doesn't look like a cakewalk to me. Granted its not one of those butlins style open prisons, but there's a whole spectrum of offenders, makes sense to have a spectrum of punishment. Or is that too liberal...?
[i]Women prisoners will not have to wear a uniform.[/i]
That's sexual discrimination that is.
[i]They should be employed in something useful, not only to fund their food and lodging, but also to pay off the invoice which they should have been issued to cover the costs of the policing and courts which led to the conviction.[/i]
And what job do you want them to take off someone on the outside?
Have to make do with bum-love then
And what job do you want them to take off someone on the outside?
You're point is valid, but without wanting to sound like a daily mail apologist, how about jobs that we currently export to cheap labour countries anyway, like Primark clothes making, or plastic toy assembly? Or maybe jobs that we have to import labour for, like cockle picking, fruit picking, vegetable picking? Processing waste in recycling plants? Just a thought, as prisons seem uniquely positioned to offer 'less than minimum wage' labouring the UK labour market.
Have to make do with bum-love then
Apparently thats a myth. However if I faced at least 20yrs in jail I'd turn gay (and rampant) very very quickly. **** doing without sex 
We all would so stop the belly aching
I don't know why prisoners just don't try and get out more . . . 😀
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I think that's a rash assumption hora. Only the prison bull's get to have bum sex. Pretty boys like you get to have sex given to them.
Maybe the absence of liberty is the punishment - not the conditions inside. Having visited a couple of prisons and been escorted around majority of the facilities I can safely say that neither looked that cushy to me.
Pretty boys like you get to have sex given to them.
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I wonder why prison authorities saw fit to spend all that money installing all this Sky TV in the first place?
Good point, someone somewhere within procurement etc along the line agreed a lucrative deal that benefited $$$ Sky.
Why do we allways have to descend into some sort of "bum love" / male rape jokes everytime a topic is about prison/prisoners?
There is no shame in being gay and no humour in rape.
As for prisons decide if you wish to rehabilitate or punish according to your own moral compass but be certain neither approach will end offending or re offending
We do a bit of both and neither well IMHO.
Having seen the inside of a number of prisons, including the open "butlins ones" they are not places I want to work in again let alone reside there
Played volleyball against inmates in Dartmoor - never realised until then what was meant by the offence of "intimidation through the net".
Still looked like a crap place to be imprisoned.
I wonder why prison authorities saw fit to spend all that money installing all this Sky TV in the first place?
They wanted to make them feel at home. The same initiative saw them able to buy dodgy knock off Lambert & Butler, Skunk and bottles of white lightning, while fathering illegitimate children with Sharon from near the precinct.
Alas, these basic human rights have also been eroded over the years
Or maybe the people who actually run these things realised that being too brutal in prison doesn't actually help?
Just a wild crazy thought, you know.. maybe the people who run prisons know more than we do?
Just a wild crazy thought, you know.. maybe the people who run prisons know more than we do?
Why not normal tv?
Even wall to wall Sky movies etc- you'd still be bored shitless I imagine.
The grim reality for many offenders is theres nothing on the outside for them. No money which then means going hungry etc. So prison really is a better option in alot of cases.
Why not the jokes? Its hardly a seriously meant topic. Plus the jokes, Offended? Hit the ban button- you know that one well I imagine.
So prison really is a better option in alot of cases.
Even if you have to watch Loose Women every day? Even the title taunts you, then ultimately fails to deliver...
eermm ... put them to hard labour and in chain gang Dear Leader's style?
[quote=rogerthecat said]Played volleyball against inmates in Dartmoor - never realised until then what was meant by the offence of "intimidation through the net".
Still looked like a crap place to be imprisoned.
Was the "net" the prison wall ? 😉
allthepies - Member
Was the "net" the prison wall ?
Wish it had been, played for China Fleet with a bunch of RM headjobs, so you can imaging how much fun that fixture used to be, funny we never played them back at our place.
I'm sure that those who run prisons do know more about it that the rest of us. Well, I would hope they do.
But perhaps there is a element of keeeping the peace is better than confrontation. Maybe its just a case of re-establishing a few boundries.
TBH, I am amazed prisoners are allowed sky and access to x rated movies.
If they want to do that sort of stuff, how about not doing stuff that lead to prison in the first place.
What happened to going to nick, reading Satre and Machevelli and coming out with an Open University degree and becoming an anti establishment agitator?
Having seen the inside of a number of prisons, including the open "butlins ones" they are not places I want to work in again let alone reside there
Excellent! The deterrent has worked in your case. However...
The grim reality for many offenders is theres nothing on the outside for them. No money which then means going hungry etc. So prison really is a better option in alot of cases.
There is also the institutionalisation of people.
I agree with v8ninety in that we could probably come to some arrangement with certain companies to set up some sort of manufacturing facility. But there needs to be continuation outside of prison. Providing a structured environment with gainful employment inside prison and nothing outside will achieve nothing. As with all things there is no "one size fits all" solution*.
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*no references to bum sex inferred...
But perhaps there is a element of keeeping the peace is better than confrontation.
So you think 5 years of being brutally oppressed and driven mad is going to make people into peaceful law abiding citizens when they get out?
The ex prisoner on radio 4 made some good points this morning, reoffending isn't really addressed whilst in prison, once you're released you can very much end up on your own, jobless, homeless etc. Very very easy to fall back into previous offending patterns. I imagine the probation service do their best but there'll no doubt be political interference and a lack of funding to do the job properly.
The big question though is do we spend money and resources on getting ex-offenders back on their feet, rehabilitated, settled and in employment whilst people who don't have a criminal record don't qualify for that level of help. Is it a better use of resources to attempt to prevent reoffending, is it morally right to not support those who haven't broken the rules? If we don't rehabilitate properly post release what do we do, carry on moaning about the crime rate (which is allegedly reducing anyway), put ex offenders into hostels?
So lets have a look at the actual numbers:
That's out of 84000...
reoffending isn't really addressed whilst in prison, once you're released you can very much end up on your own, jobless, homeless etc. Very very easy to fall back into previous offending patterns.
They've been saying that for as long as I can remember.
They should be put to work making cycleways and trails all over the country
jees sky tv, that would be torture for me, though im sceptical that prison is all ronnie barker- like escapades and premiere league football
I strongly suspect its a lot cheaper to leave the tv on all the time than invest in decent rehabilitation/ education programmes
So you think 5 years of being brutally oppressed and driven mad is going to make people into peaceful law abiding citizens when they get out?
No - and they weren't when they went there, or potentially, many yaers before that.
How are they "brutally oppressed" - I think we are talking Armley here, not the Bangkok Hilton.It's not fun , so maybe that is an incentive not to go again?
The issue is that I'm sure that rehabilitation is the holy grail. How many cons want to be "rehabilitated"?
The comments below the Grauniad article in the OP from ex prisoners and prison guards make clear what a pile of old cack this stuff is. It's one step above Pet ASBOs: cheap eyewash that doesn't cost anything and will never actually have to be implemented.
How are they "brutally oppressed"
If you make someone sit in a cell staring at walls for 23 hours a day - that's fairly brutal. Not as bad as some places of course but still bad.
anyone would think the torries were desperately trying to claw back some right wing votes b4 the imminent local elections
Tory Minister with history of dishonesty amd next to no kmowledge of his department gets his facts wrong again..
" At both HMP Dovegate and HMP Lowdham Grange, which cater for long term offenders, the prisoners have access to Premium Sky. This is completely paid for by the Prison Trust which is funded by prisoners and it does not come out of the public purse.
"The small In-cell televisions are funded by prisoners who pay a weekly fee to rent them through money that they earn in the prison workshops.
"Access to televisions is conditional on good behaviour. TVs can and will be removed from prisoners whose behaviour becomes unacceptable
If you make someone sit in a cell staring at walls for 23 hours a day - that's fairly brutal. Not as bad as some places of course but still bad.
Can do the time , don't do the crime
I find it difficult to believe that even most prisoners would refer to it a brutal.
They get fed, watered, heating, education (if wanted) and work ... It might be as dull as f***, harsh, maybe but calling it "brutal" is a little "Sky News"
I have no doubt all prisons have their pecking orders and hard men. But you don't have to go there ...
They get fed, watered, heating, [b]education (if wanted) and work[/b]
No, they don't. Very few prisoners get work and education, and they mostly like it because its time out of the cells.
No, they don't. Very few prisoners get work and education, and they mostly like it because its time out of the cells.
So how / what do they have to do to access it?
I know illiteracy rates in prisona re meant to be at about 30-40%. So if basic education cannot be accessed, then that is does seem to be very short sighted.
So how / what do they have to do to access it?
AIUI we've been slashing the budget for rehabilitation for decades as our politicians pander to Daily Mail rants about soft prison regimes with murderers encouraged to read books and learn skills rather than ROT IN HELL LIKE THE SCUM THAT THEY ARE etc etc etc.....
They should be MADE TO READ BOOKS AND GET AN EDUCATION then ... so, in fact, turning the TVs now seems to make sense ...
"Slashing budgets" - very daily mail 🙂 - for "needing to get control of expenditure"?
