[Closed] The book UKIPers are trying to ban

Well, you can ignore it if you want. You did with the yS debate and look what cost you! BSing on the currency and debt.

Mainstream parties across the world are struggling with the conflict between what needs to be done and what people want to be done - just look at Brazil in the last 48 hours, with the reaction to (and ex-reactionary) left wing government announcing cuts in pensions and unemployment benefits - kind of kills the ideological argument, doesn't it?!? And she is nationalising banks......

@epic the referendum had two choices yes/no - so 45 isn't so impressive as its a clear loss. Newsnight prediction model had Labour on 386 MPs and Tories on 380 with Tories getting 1% more of the vote than Labour. Plus SNP doing well (56?)

People here don't seem to be able to avoid pigeon holing UKIP, very dangerous to underestimate your opponents, as I said at least Milliband has recognised UKIP as a threat.

@BigBut - why not debate the points raised, as @epic said the SNP would swing right or left if it thought it assisted their only agenda, Scottish independence.

@BigBut - why not debate the points raised,

😀

You should change your name to teamdullas****! change the record!

This made me laugh 😆

And they have both gone about furthering their Nationalist ideas in the same way, by proposing populist policies from across the polictial spectrum to gain support for their Nationalist views.

**** me a political party with popular ideas to achieve their goal. Have you ever heard of such madness lets hope the torIies and Labour don’t catch on to such crazy ideas.

Where they diverge is the policies they have chosen to forward their agenda.

So apart from having different policies they are the same…ok now you are starting to make sense 😕

THM seems to have his own thread where the scottish referendum is being discussed.
Nope his riding buddy is here to help him out as they play straight man and side kick

@BigBut - why not debate the points raised,

Where does it say they're "tring to ban" it?

I've pondered this further. I reckon these two are very similar.

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[img] [/img]

Farage could accidentally be the most socialist (sic) person in the country- they are both willing to stop trading with his neighbours, both want to keep everyone else out of their country, both think other nations are inferior and both are perfectly happy to utterly shaft their country in the name of their batshit mental beliefs.

@BigBut, hey cool you even found an e-card with my name on it. Capitals next time though please, as a mark of respect and all that 8)

😀 easier than debating!!!

FWIW, that well-known RW rag (sic) the New Statesman was drawing the parallels back in 2013. I guess they employ idiots too?!?

Today politicians are fearful of the potential "breakthrough" of a nationalist separatist party with a charismatic leader. No, not Alex Salmond and the SNP, but Nigel Farage and UKIP. Nevertheless, the similarities between the two parties are striking. When you consider that both are obsessed with constitutional politics and plebiscites; both are derided for their collection of "fruit cakes"; both admire the right-wing economic policies of Margaret Thatcher; both stand on a none-of-the-above party platform, challenging the political establishment; and, ultimately, both believe that the blame for all life’s woes lie with membership of a certain union.

Its like Morecambe and Wise all I have to do is now is work out which one of you is funny and which one of you wise 😕

At least you will have something to chuckle about on your rides

teamhurtmore - Member
Of course, their core ideas are different in content, the similarity is that they are still both flawed.

Joe, fail to learn from history and you will make the same mistakes. The Scottish voters were clear, the open goal was missed because basic questions on the currency were not answered. If yS fails to understand that you actually have to answer basic but key questions you will never score the goal in the next generations vote!!

If Labour gets into govt again within such a short period you lot are screwed. Screwed! Big time zombie style.

Conservative is doing fine for now so they would be a lesser zombie to see in power.

LD - this party lives in a dreamland so they should remain in the dreamland. They are nutrients to zombies. Should Not even be voted into local council as they have the tendency to intervene in your personal life.

UKIP, although another variant of zombies (they all are, they all are ... ) should be given a chance to try out their luck, coz the other three simply had it so good for so long.

I would vote for Alex Salmond if he stands for election in the South just to stir things up a bit.

🙄

So a selection of UKIP policies I see as being left wing, taken from their website. I would reckon its about 50% or 60% of the policies listed. It's quite long so I imagine most of you won't bother to read it.

[i]UKIP will increase personal allowance to the level of full-time minimum wage earnings (approx £13,500 by next election).
We will introduce a 35p income tax rate between £42,285 and £55,000, whereupon the 40p rate becomes payable.
UKIP will set up a Treasury Commission to design a turnover tax to ensure big businesses pay a minimum floor rate of tax as a proportion of their UK turnover.

UKIP will introduce an option for students to take an Apprenticeship Qualification instead of four non-core GCSEs which can be continued at A-Level. Students can take up apprenticeships in jobs with certified professionals qualified to grade the progress of the student.
Subject to academic performance UKIP will remove tuition fees for students taking approved degrees in science, medicine, technology, engineering, maths on the condition that they live, work and pay tax in the UK for five years after the completion of their degrees.

UKIP will ensure the NHS is free at the point of delivery and time of need for all UK residents.
We will stop further use of PFI in the NHS and encourage local authorities to buy out their PFI contracts early where this is affordable.
We will ensure that GPs’ surgeries are open at least one evening per week, where there is demand for it.
UKIP opposes plans to charge patients for visiting their GP.
We will ensure that visitors to the UK, and migrants until they have paid NI for five years, have NHS-approved private health insurance as a condition of entry to the UK, saving the NHS £2bn pa. UKIP will commit to spending £200m of the £2bn saving to end hospital car parking charges in England.
We will replace Monitor and the Care Quality Commission with elected county health boards to be more responsive scrutineers of local health services. These will be able to inspect health services and take evidence from whistle-blowers.
UKIP opposes the sale of NHS data to third parties.

UKIP will leave the EU, and take back control of our borders. Work permits will be permitted to fill skills gaps in the UK jobs market.
We will extend to EU citizens the existing points-based system for time-limited work permits. Those coming to work in the UK must have a job to go to, must speak English, must have accommodation agreed prior to their arrival, and must have NHS-approved health insurance.

UKIP will let the British parliament vote on GM foods.
UKIP will abolish the export of live animals for slaughter
UKIP opposes the bedroom tax because it operates unfairly, penalising those who are unable to find alternative accommodation and taking insufficient account of the needs of families and the disabled.
UKIP opposes tolls on public roads and will let existing contracts for running toll roads expire.
UKIP will maintain pensioner bus passes.

Houses on brownfield sites will be exempt from Stamp Duty on first sale and VAT relaxed for redevelopment of brownfield sites.
Planning Permission for large-scale developments can be overturned by a referendum triggered by the signatures of 5% of the District or Borough electors collected within three months.
UKIP supports the recall of MPs as was originally promised in the Coalition Agreement, whereby 20% of the electorate in a constituency must sign a recall petition within eight weeks. The approval of MPs will not be required to initiate a recall petition.
UKIP will introduce the Citizens’ Initiative to allow the public to initiate national referendums on issues of major public interest.

UKIP will ensure that the law is rigorously enforced in relation to ‘cultural’ practices which are illegal in Britain, such as forced marriages, FGM and so-called ‘honour killings’
We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.
UKIP will amend the smoking ban to give pubs and clubs the choice to open smoking rooms properly ventilated and separated from non-smoking areas.
[/i]

.
Ignore, wasn't worth the effort

Ignore, wasn't worth the effort

Why is racism a right wing trait

Because science says so.

http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

@BigBut - not just copy and paste there was editing and everything 🙁 - I picked out only the 50%-60% of policies I though where left leaning. Ignoring the issue is the plan most political parties followed with UKIP these past 2 years, that's why they've been allowed to poll/gain 20%-25% of the vote. It's been a big tactical error of the Left to allow UKIP to grow on the basis they would primarily hurt the Tories

@jim, I thought it was worth the effort, always worth reading what the different parties have to say, there's a general election on the way

I should explain, I did read it, made a comment and then realised the [i]comment[/i] I made wasn't worth the effort of pasting as it would just pander to the prejudices displayed in the document cut and pasted. So I deleted the comment.
I do read a great deal of information about politics, but as it is mostly in the papers you have to take it all with a large piece of salt as each has it's own axe to grind in my experience. You just have to see the varied coverage of the Dossier (dodgy?) that Our esteemed Chancellor released yesterday to realise that, as if I didn't know already.
I look forward to discussing the policies when canvassers come to my door. If they do that is as where I am is in such a safe Tory seat no one has ever bothered in the 16 years I have lived here, for any election. For that reason I would prefer proportional representation as then at least they would try for national elections, wouldn't they?!?

SNP and UKIP both seek to differentiate their respective people from those we currently share unions with.
Both resort to gross distortions, and nationalist lingo often appearing unpleasant to acheive this. Both claim their respective countries are overpaying into undemocratic unions. Having successfully made people wish to look after number one, other struggling people within these current unions can be portrayed as faceless, inconsequential or even as scapegoats.

Both parties have in recent years been ran by arrogant bullies with little regard for those with a different sense of national identity than themselves and their supporters.

The main difference is probably that UKIP has not sown up social media the way SNP supporters have. If I was an SNP supporter I would have no shortage of places to go for some Yes self indugence. Sites telling me how great it is to be Scottish, and one day "We will win Scotland back"

Take a step back in terms of policy detail, the parties are closer at heart than many think. People are not switching to the SNP because they suddenly want rid of Trident or wish to see more immigration. They do it because the party helps make them feel different, and we should be looking after ourselves first and kick a poor alien government. Take the outlet of SNP away and you could have someone voting for UKIP.

Who knew a notepad could be a topic of such heated discussion...?

Take the outlet of SNP away and you could have someone voting for UKIP.

Bollox.

Nice and polite too cougs, isn't it??? 😯

That, athgray, is the biggest line of bullshitery ever spouted on STW. Get a grip.

Its just folk who hate the SNP and call them liars and BS etc saying they are like UKIP , as a cheap insult , then complaining the thread is impolite.

You cannot find the lunacy of UKIP, the racists, the ex NF members, the homophobic sexist comments the outward racism etc within the SNP. Even CMD has never referred to them as fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists.
Anyone who thinks this and thinks that UKIP is not right wing is unlikely to get a job as a political correspondence unless their is a vacancy at Fox news. Its a risible view that I doubt even they believe tbh.
It little more than an exercise in personal prejudice. Its only the SNP haterz from the referendum thread saying this.

Cougar, it's all got a bit more excited and hence run to more pages since I made what I thought was the fairly uncontroversial point that as parties driven by an independence agenda UKIP and the SNP where quite similar.

JY I think the SNP is full of racism, full of people seethingly anti-English. They are just kept a bit more under wraps by a very slick political machine. All those other qualities you mention too, they'll all exist within the SNP as they do in pretty much any large group of people/party

full of people seethingly anti-English

Jambas - a relatively uncontroversial point also made by several political commentators in broadsheets of different political perspectives (with links here). Amazing that it gets the reaction that it does -- sorry not amazing at all, it's clearly a sensitive point that touches a nerve perhaps 😉 hence the lack of reasoned response other than nah, nah and personal stuff.

I guess the leaders' styles also filter down - a trickle down effect that really does work! Thoughtspeak arrives.....

JY, we'll have to disagree on that then. There are many anti-English people in the independence movement generally and the SNP, that's pretty clear.

Next up: jambalaya explains how black really [i]is[/i] white. 😕

I don't think it's ridiculous to claim some parallels between UKIP and the SNP but claiming they are broadly similar, or that the SNP has a similar problem with bigotry, is utterly ludicrous.

It's kind of irrelevant imo, unless something really rocks Westminster between now and June, then the Tories win with a small majority. The SNP gets some gains but nothing like those recently predicted. UKIP and the Greens will get little traction, and the biggest losers will be the Lib Dems, plus Milliband and Balls

Right I'm off to the bookies 😆

There are many anti-English people in the independence movement generally and the SNP, that's pretty clear

hence the lack of reasoned response other than nah, nah and personal stuff

I am not sure that the fact some journalists have said something makes it an irrefutable point. But you clutch at your confirmation bias straw if you want to.

a relatively uncontroversial point also made by several political commentators in broadsheets of different political perspectives (with links here)

Where would these broadsheets be printed?

There's a common thing where people confuse criticism of Westminster with criticism of England and the English. I've never seen any SNP literature that's anti-English. But in the London media bubble that doesn't matter - the SNP don't like Westminster, so the SNP must be anti-English.