MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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I’m fortunate/unfortunate that bough to have driven a lot of different EV’s now & there is literally a handful of them I would consider over a Tesla. They are all double, triple or more times the price.
I think this is a point people forget the model 3 although pricey is er a budget model, you do get a lot of bang per buck thou.
I also think its not that photogenic as it has way more lines in the flesh, it's not as curvy as you'd think and with the white seats and minimalist interior it's definitely different.
And of course it drives so badly,you really wouldn't want one 🙂
as an a to b tool, it’s brilliant.
Which I suppose is whats it all about 🙂
Wasn’t the Model 3 the best selling car in Europe last month?
Yea, I wasn’t talking about last month. I mean coming up as there’s been a few new releases and more due soon.
Kia EV6 for the win
Ioniq5 ftw!
If have one if I could afford it. Best looking hatch out there.
4wd with enough range to get the family to whistler and back for a day of skiing. Perfect.
Can’t afford one though 🙁 but it looks great
That’s a lot of range and a long way to go for a week-end’s skiing……
Got a model 3 in grey and love it, some angles do look a bit funny but move a bit and it looks brilliant, and those funny looks do make it very slippy through the air and gives efficiency that other ev’s can only dream about, love it or hate it it’s a modern classic.
Kia EV6
It’s not hugely important, but given the price, build quality, unpleasant interior and now lack of advantage in range there are better options which are also better looking. It’s rapidly lose the market in Europe now there is a growing range from the mainstream manufacturers.
more FACTS from the expert who doesn't own a Tesla or have the faintest clue what he's on about. 😂
Model 3 is a bit odd looking at the front though, can't disagree with the OP. The front view out is extraordinary as a result of that design though so it's almost worth it.
It would be interesting to know how many people have actually spent their own money to purchase a Model 3. - As a company issued 'tool' for doing a job, the price point and charging network still make it hard to beat for many I imagine.
Is it normal for a £50k car to be the best seller? That does seem quite remarkable. I'm guessing they're doing better than most in the chip shortage for some reason.
Davros - I'm not up to speed with the befit in kind / tax benefits in the rest of Europe, but in the UK I'm sure the high sales will be driven primarily by company leases from low BIK. - The model 3 really does seem to be replacing the vehicle of choice for the company reps that would have driven the BMW 3 series / Audi A4
more FACTS from the expert who doesn’t own a Tesla or have the faintest clue what he’s on about
Why are you posting past figures when I’m talking about what will happen now there’s more options?
I wasn’t talking about last month. I mean coming up as there’s been a few new releases and more due soon.
He's been out and bought himself a crystal ball
I suspect Drac might have been one of those people who two years ago was saying that Tesla would go bust. So now he's on the "just wait till the OEMs bring out their EVs" band wagon. I can understand people simply saying they don't like the looks and that's it, not on their list. It's those that seem to have an agenda to hate them, I find strange. Anyway, whatever, my Tesla went back on Wednesday after 2 happy years and I'm now in a VW ID3, so maybe he's right 😯
I don't have any future figures to post.
The top selling thing is a marketing ploy by Tesla. In reality their cars are not yet very popular, but they batch their registrations (either every 3 or 6 months) so the spike looks high. On an annual basis Tesla are tiny, the model 3 is the 12th best selling car in the UK over the last 12 months..
VAUXHALL CORSA 53353
FORD FIESTA 47533
VOLKSWAGEN GOLF 46095
MERCEDES A CLASS 41374
FORD PUMA 38027
NISSAN QASHQAI 35621
FORD FOCUS 33901
VOLKSWAGEN POLO 32505
VOLVO XC40 31717
VOLKSWAGEN TIGUAN 31038
MINI COOPER 30080
TESLA MODEL 3 27656
If that's the case they've stitched me right up. 🤦🏻♂️😂
Ah that makes more sense. It always used to be fiesta, Corsa, polo etc near the top. Small and cheap(er) rather than high performance and expensive.
I'm sure you know this 5lab, but it's not some sinister marketing ploy, it's about logistics and not having new cars in transit on the high seas at the end of a quarter. So you'll get 4 ships full of cars unloading in Southampton one month and none the next, as all those cars are being sold in the home market to ensure not having anything in transit at Q end. That's my understanding anyhow
poor visibility, so poor they need cameras
Cars don't have cameras because of poor visibility, they have them for convenience. And I must admit that they are great (my current car is the first one with a reversing camera). After a slightly hesitant start, I love it – I never found it hard to reverse before, but it makes it so much easier with a camera.
Cars don’t have cameras because of poor visibility, they have them for convenience. And I must admit that they are great (my current car is the first one with a reversing camera). After a slightly hesitant start, I love it – I never found it hard to reverse before, but it makes it so much easier with a camera.
100% agree with that, even more so in a van. Probably had half a dozen occasions where some idiot has walked directly behind me when im clearly in reverse. The cross traffic sensors are great for reversing out where you are not sighted too, as are blind spot indicators on your wing mirrors.
None of it necessary to drive, but only go to make things safer which is no bad thing.
I don't know if I'm getting old or the shape of cars is changing, but I find pretty much all the newer cars we've own recently so difficult to reverse with any degree of accuracy. I dread to think how many trips to the paint shop I be making if it wasn't for the various beeps / cameras.
I’m sure you know this 5lab, but it’s not some sinister marketing ploy, it’s about logistics and not having new cars in transit on the high seas at the end of a quarter. So you’ll get 4 ships full of cars unloading in Southampton one month and none the next, as all those cars are being sold in the home market to ensure not having anything in transit at Q end. That’s my understanding anyhow
its possible, for sure, but no other manufacturer runs like this - so either they're gaming their figures to suit their earnings reports or gaming their figures to suit the "cars sold in a month" headlines, or both..
If that’s the case they’ve stitched me right up.
😂
its possible, for sure, but no other manufacturer runs like this – so either they’re gaming their figures to suit their earnings reports or gaming their figures to suit the “cars sold in a month” headlines, or both..
Are any other manufacturers shipping in the same sort of volume to the UK from the US or China though? Not saying they don't game their figures at all (selling the carbon credits being the biggest) but until the Berlin plant comes online they don't have the convenience of shipping from European/UK plants
It would be interesting to know how many people have actually spent their own money to purchase a Model 3. – As a company issued ‘tool’ for doing a job, the price point and charging network still make it hard to beat for many I imagine.
Mine is a company car. I still have to contribute £700 a month to it for three years, so I count that very firmly in “spending my own money on it”.
Yes, it’s a little odd from some angles, but then all cars have sides that aren’t so good.
The build quality is fine. It’s better than my previous Jaguar XF which was more expensive, and as good as any 3 series I’ve been in.
Personally I like the minimalist interior, but as with the exterior, taste is subjective.
Overall, I’ll never go back to using an ICE vehicle. EV is so much more pleasant and easy to drive, and Tesla particularly makes EV ownership absolutely painless. I’ve driven all over the country for my job, and I’ve never worried about charging. I even drove Birmingham to Fort William a couple of weeks ago, and left home with 10% battery. Not a problem, and don’t take me any longer to do that drive than it had taken in an ICE vehicle, and I’ve done that drive a lot, so can easily compare.
I still have to contribute £700 a month
£700 A MONTH?????? Towards a company car?
£700 A MONTH?????? Towards a company car?
probably pre-tax. Could be as little as £273 impact on take home (effective tax rate of 61%)
Model 3 is a bit odd looking at the front though,
This.
Over the last 20 years car manufacturers have made the "radiator grill" more and more of a feature. Compare a 90s BMW or Audi with the equivalent current model - the "radiator grill" is massive now.
Tesla comes along and goes completely the other way - it looks weird and retro because it doesn't fit with other current cars.
Show someone from the 90s a current BMW and they'd hate it - the massive "radiator grill" would have been considered hideous.
Show someone from the 90s a current BMW and they’d hate it – the massive “radiator grill” would have been considered hideous.
Nah. Anyone from any time ever would agree that most new BMWs actually are hideous.
I’m sure you know this 5lab, but it’s not some sinister marketing ploy, it’s about logistics and not having new cars in transit on the high seas at the end of a quarter. So you’ll get 4 ships full of cars unloading in Southampton one month and none the next, as all those cars are being sold in the home market to ensure not having anything in transit at Q end. That’s my understanding anyhow
11 ships full of Model 3 and Model Y on the way from Shanghai to Europe. December looks like being a bumper month. Source https://fmossott.github.io/TeslaCarriersMap/
In reality their cars are not yet very popular
Well anecdotally, it's by far the most popular EV round here.
I'd shortlist one and try to ignore the ugliness if it could tow 1500kg, but it can only do 1200kg.
£700 A MONTH?????? Towards a company car?
wow, just wow.
Bensales - If you're paying £700pcm for a Model 3, I'm thinking you're an outlier to the general purchase demographic.
Not sure how to word this question to get my point across, but has anyone bought an eV outright (either just with cash, or with some kind of loan secured not on the car) and hence is taking on the risk of residual values themselves, rather than buying either on a straight lease, or some kind of pcp scheme where the manufacturer guarantees that it won't cost you more than £x to own the car for the period.
I do wonder how values of current ev's. Will hold up when the tech is moving so fast, and a car sold now is liable to Be seriously outdated in 3 years time.especially with. All the mainstream manufacturers getting up to speed with ev's.
I don't think I'd be taking on that risk for any kind of car right now, too much is changing
Julians - Yes, albeit through a limited company. - It is a risk which I considered as well. Only time will tell.
I did. My i3 was bought under a loan. It'll be mine to own in May. To me it doesn't matter what the future value will be, it's about overall ownership cost over a period. I'd like the I3 to last 8 years which would mean the total cost would be £2500 a year including fuel, tax and servicing. £20k for owning and running a car over 8 years and 10k miles a year isn't too bad to me. Charging has almost always been free for us, so we've only spent £70-£100 on electrons in 38000 miles. Servicing is roughly £100-£120 a year. No tax. Insurance and consumables you'd have with any car.
I think Teslas always look better in real life. I think they generally seem to “take” a bad photo. have to say though I agree about the build quality comments, the shut lines and finish on some I’ve seen isn’t fabulous
Yep, the Tesla 3 especially, it photographs like an Astra 3 door / coupe from a few years ago, IRL they're actually surprisingly swoopy and the curves remind me of a late Mazda RX7 which was a very pretty car.
I think blandness, certainly with their first saloons was the aim. They were pretty much creating the mainstream EV market. Consumers reluctance was going to be a big battle, if they came out looking like something from Star Wars they've have been dismissed as being silly / daft.
Nah. Anyone from any time ever would agree that most new BMWs actually are hideous
True enough, although the BMW iX's fake grill is a special kind of ugly. I can only assume they mocked up versions with just a painted front end and it looked even worse, I'm struggling to imagine how though
I do wonder how values of current ev’s. Will hold up when the tech is moving so fast, and a car sold now is liable to Be seriously outdated in 3 years time
The reason that leases are relatively cheap must be that lease companies think residuals will be good, in the short term at least. I think the used market will be strong because whilst some people are hankering after more and more range (not sure why, as to me there's a point where you have 'enough' and there's no point in getting more, probably around 300 miles) there are also people who are just driving short trips but want something decent for much than £30k. So you'll probably see cars like the Leaf, Ioniq and Zoe drop to around 10-15k but hang around there for a fair while.
So you’ll probably see cars like the Leaf, Ioniq and Zoe drop to around 10-15k but hang around there for a fair while.
What sort of price are we predicting for a 3 yearold ex-lease Tesla 3, EV6, Ionic5, MachE etc. in about 2023? (eg, the mid size, £40-50k new bracket)
Current Model 3 prices are high but I think temporarily bouyed by supply demand by virtue of them being the first to exist in this class, and shortage of new cars due to the various events of the last 18 months.
hang around there for a fair while
I'm hoping the lack of maintainence and inherent value of the batteries stuffed in them, even used, will keep the price up for the re-reselling at 8-10 years age.
Unless there is a game changer rendering them obscelete through either superior new tech or taxation/legislation making them unattractive.
probably pre-tax. Could be as little as £273 impact on take home (effective tax rate of 61%)
Post-tax. It’s £1200 gross on a salary sacrifice deal.
£700 per month with no deposit for 36 month lease on a Model 3 Performance with unlimited mileage, fully maintained, insured for me and spouse with business use, plus any tyres and recovery is an absolute bargain. It’s classed as a company car because it’s on a salary sacrifice deal through my employer and I get a car allowance sufficient to fund it.
Bensales – If you’re paying £700pcm for a Model 3, I’m thinking you’re an outlier to the general purchase demographic.
The Model 3 range goes from £40,000 to £60,000 (excluding options). They’re not cheap for anyone. Even the seemingly spectacular NHS lease prices are balanced out by the battering NHS employees pensions take when a car is taken.
Even the seemingly spectacular NHS lease prices are balanced out by the battering NHS employees pensions take when a car is taken.
I could have 2 E-trons for that and still have over £100 leftover. My pension is still final salary based for a couple of years, even then it’s not that big of difference.
I do wonder how values of current ev’s. Will hold up when the tech is moving so fast, and a car sold now is liable to Be seriously outdated in 3 years time.especially with. All the mainstream manufacturers getting up to speed with ev’s.
The only thing that would make an EV seriously outdated would be a step change in battery tech and that's not going to be coming in three years. I reckon for the next 2-3 years EVs, even Teslas, will be supply constrained which will keep the prices up.
Re legacy auto getting "up to speed". They talk a good game about all the new models they have in their pipelines for commercialisation in 2022-23-24-25 but they never say how many vehicles they intend to make becuase they know they will be constrained by battery availability so don't expect oodles of electric Fords, Vauxhalls, Nissans etc coming off the productuion lines any time soon.
Not sure how to word this question to get my point across, but has anyone bought an eV outright (either just with cash, or with some kind of loan secured not on the car) and hence is taking on the risk of residual values themselves, rather than buying either on a straight lease, or some kind of pcp scheme where the manufacturer guarantees that it won’t cost you more than £x to own the car for the period
Yes, its a gamble, but then i'm not paying any interest to anyone either and can claimn 100% of its value through capital allowance. ( buying through limited company)
So far, on the 3 new commercial vehicles I have bought, I have "lost" less than I would had I taken them on PCP deals. In fact the van I have now , I can sell for more than I paid for it.
( obviously only because of the current situation)
£700 per month with no deposit for 36 month lease on a Model 3 Performance with unlimited mileage, fully maintained, insured for me and spouse with business use, plus any tyres and recovery is an absolute bargain. It’s classed as a company car because it’s on a salary sacrifice deal through my employer and I get a car allowance sufficient to fund it.
It's your money, but. Wow.
Tesla looks more pedestrain friendly (less nasty to be hit with) and has better visibility. Elegant and aero rather than butch heavy. I’ll take the Tesla.
lol…..only Ed would choose a car based on its ability to hit pedestrians! 🤣
It’s your money, but. Wow.
New cars are expensive and I happily earn enough to have one. Ten years ago I was knocking around in a Focus that cost me £700 outright. I choose to spend that money on a car because I like nice cars and I can afford it. Others choose to buy expensive pushbikes… 🙂
I choose to spend that money on a car because I like nice cars and I can afford it. Others choose to buy expensive pushbikes…
Fair enough, I am not trying to be judgemental but it just sounds a lot to me – I currently have a very nice car (new Merc GLC 300d AMG) and could afford to spend more but I just couldn't personally justify quite that amount of money (which is more than double what I pay a month).
I got the basic one as a company car in March, never sat in one before ordering. Wanted to move to electric due to bik. Tesla was 4 weeks delivery everything else was 6 months plus. So I chose M3 to get asap as 6 months wait would have cost 2k in tax.
Looks certainly divid opinion, mine black so hides it more than lighter colours. I especially like it around the rear quarter view.
One things for sure I have never had a car where so many people approach and ask to look at it, school kids love it and the odd shout of cool car mate from teenagers!
Regularly do 500 mile round trips in a day and honestly now glad I got it for the ease of the charger network. Had a guy in an Audi trying to plug in as the two on Gordano services were for other cars were broken.
8 months in paint and build is match for any other car I’ve had and not one issue I’ve had to get sorted.
What sort of price are we predicting for a 3 yearold ex-lease Tesla 3, EV6, Ionic5, MachE etc. in about 2023? (eg, the mid size, £40-50k new bracket)
Put the Model 3 SR+ I just returned in WBAC.com July 2019 (so 2.5 yrs old) 26k miles = £34000. No idea how accurate WBAC.com is tho
as a related question, do they still need to have factory fitted towbar for bike carriers ?
I think there are a couple of companies that do aftermarket tow bars now for bikes only. Will imagine it will become more popular now it’s not an option
I choose to spend that money on a car because I like nice cars and I can afford it. Others choose to buy expensive pushbikes…
Yup exactly. Or moderately priced houses
Dated? Polestar is not to my taste. Though their
As folks have said, the Model 3 view from the inside is great. Nearly as good as from inside the Model X.
Model S still looks neat IMO. And it has barely changed since 2012.
Biased as current cars are Tesla and replacements will be.
They remind me of the Chrysler neon from some angles
nice car (new Merc GLC 300d AMG) and could afford to spend more but I just couldn’t personally justify quite that amount of money (which is more than double what I pay a month).
depends on your use though. If you do 20,000 miles a year, I bet your car would cost a chunk more on lease, plus ~£200 a month on fuel, maybe a further £100 on tyres, tax, insurance and so on. Total monthly spend could easily add up to more than £700 pcm. I wouldn't personally throw £25k at borrowing a car over 3 years, but I also don't spend a huge amount of time in one, so the niceties are somewhat wasted
One things for sure I have never had a car where so many people approach and ask to look at it, school kids love it and the odd shout of cool car mate from teenagers!
Genuinely exactly the same experience I've had especially the school kids (youtube generation I assume) and yet the grandad's on here say it looks dated, go figure?
That’s very much an electric thing, people here the humm or spaceship noise and are intrigued. Kids love them, the neighbours grandkids use to run out to see mine when I got home.
My Tesla was completely silent mate, you're doing your Tesla hater thing again. I honestly think it's a YouTube thing.
My Tesla was completely silent mate, you’re doing your Tesla hater thing again.
Sigh! I’m not I had this with my GTE and now with Audi, the GTE was silent but E-tron makes spaceship noice that young kids love. Both have got people attention as they are electric/hybrid and it’s still a novelty.
Genuinely exactly the same experience I’ve had especially the school kids (youtube generation I assume) and yet the grandad’s on here say it looks dated, go figure?
It's because we were around in the 80s and 90s looking at cars!
Re the noise - some EVs make it some appear not to. Mine does, it whines slightly especially at motorway speeds. There's an additional optional noise you can add, but it's just the same whine but louder. And it doesn't change pitch either, which makes it really rather annoying. My Prius whined a bit too, I could recognise it coming down the hill before I could see it. The Amazon delivery vans however are silent and a bit deadly.
Ok Drac, My VW has a spaceship sound and I can guarantee you with reasonable confidence that the local school kids will not be the slightest bit interested other than a passing glance. In the Tesla I had school kids waving in that "Hi Dad" joke thing you used to do with your mates as a kid when a special car pulled up. Obviously they were getting a bit mixed up between my basic 3 and the model S and X, but the fact remains that Tesla is making an impact with the younger generation and I think it's probably YouTube based
It may well do but it’s certainly something I’ve experienced too.
What VW had the spaceship sound?
@molgrips all new EVs from October last year have to produce a sound when below 30 mph.
It's a good idea but the sound doesn't need to be so grating for the occupants of the vehicle..!
(700 net all inclusive salary sacrifice deduction for a Tesla Model 3 Performance)
I could have 2 E-trons for that and still have over £100 leftover. My pension is still final salary based for a couple of years, even then it’s not that big of difference.
Out of interest I had a look at my company car list to see what an E-tron was, as a few colleagues have them.
Anywhere between £600 and £700 per month all inclusive depending on spec level.
Jaguar i-Pace between £500 and £700.
The Model 3 is £450 to £700 depending on model.
And repeat for clarity, those lease prices are net salary sacrifice all inclusive of
* unlimited mileage
* no deposit
* 36 months
* fully comp business insurance for driver and spouse/partner
* any tyres
* any maintenance
* recovery
* zero effect on any pension or other company benefits
@molgrips all new EVs from October last year have to produce a sound when below 30 mph.
My A250e makes a kind of grumbling noise when travelling forwards at anything less than 17mph . It can be heard in the cabin but isn’t particularly irritating. The pitch does change as the car accelerates/decelerates.
When the car is reversing, it makes a low level beeping sound (like parking sensors but constant and coming from an external speaker) to warn people the car is, or is just about to reverse.
Makes more sense Ben. - I assume only about half to 2 thirds of what you are paying actually goes to covering the car cost.
Out of interest I had a look at my company car list to see what an E-tron was, as a few colleagues have them.
Yeah it’s a huge discount that Audi offer, there was a Tesla deal but I can’t recall how much it was, it was more though. Everything is covered too but as you say it has an effect on my pension, but it’s not huge.
All that matters is if you’re happy to pay that for the car you want and like. It staggers me how much people pay for other things that I’d not.
I'm on a contributory scheme through my employer. It blows my mind that I have access to such a vehicle. I grew up without much cash for posh cars, (we had a rusty austin maestro then an elderly Astra. 😬)
I pay £200 a month for a car that cost more than my annual wage, I can live with the looks!
It has universal insurance for any driver I approve, I'm happy to pay my good fortune forward and let my friends use it where possible. 👍
Re. how the prices of current EV's will hold up... how do you think the price of a diesal SUV will hold up. Friend has the choice of repairing or replacing his 2012 A4 allroad.. he'æs decided to repair as there are only 3 new VAG group diesal SUV's available to buy in this part of Norway. Noone is stocking them as noone wants to buy them. Dead technology
It's going to be a tough life for legacy manufacturers who've fallen behind.
how do you think the price of a diesal SUV will hold up. Friend has the choice of repairing or replacing his 2012 A4 allroad.. he’æs decided to repair as there are only 3 new VAG group diesal SUV’s available to buy in this part of Norway
depends over what time frame you look etc, but right now (cos of covid etc), the wifes diesel ford kuga is worth approx 500 quid less (using a webuyanycar value) than we paid for it 3 years ago - we bought it at about 1 year old from ford dealer.
How long values will stay strong for - I dont know, and when we bought it, this certainly wasnt what I expected to happen.
The plan with the kuga was to buy it and keep for at least 10 years, to the point that it became uneconomical to run then we'd scrap it - and thats still the plan...
/blockquote>
Something doesn’t ring true about that story. When a phone is set up as a key, it’s the phone’s Bluetooth identifier that is registered with that car. And it only uses Bluetooth to determine if the phone is close to unlock and start.
I’ve just exited the Tesla app, rebooted my iPhone, turned off Wi-Fi and mobile data, and gone out to my car. It unlocked and started fine.
Absolutely the app won’t connect to the car if there’s no internet connectivity or the servers at Tesla are down, but if someone is using that mechanism to start their car (you can remote start through the app to let others drive when you’re not there), then they’re using it wrong and it’s their own fault.
It’s wise to carry one of the key cards with you as well, just in case.
Something doesn’t ring true about that story. When a phone is set up as a key, it’s the phone’s Bluetooth identifier that is registered with that car.
dunno, I dont have a tesla so have no idea - but the article says that musk said he will make changes to ensure it doesnt happen again - so must be something in it.
Yeah, I looked at the tweet. Someone moaned the app wouldn’t connect and Musk admitted they’d bugger something up and would fix it.
Nothing about not being able to drive their car. I wonder if the BBC assumed that the app was necessary to drive and 1+1=4.
Yeah that’s a none story, it would be like me not being able to lock/unlock my car through the app when I could just use the key.
Possibly related news is that the beeb have a documentary looking at the ethics of teslas production lines this week - not that they'd ever report a story to act as a proxy trailer for a TV show.
Regularly do 500 mile round trips in a day and honestly now glad I got it for the ease of the charger network.
@sidders34, and other Tesla owners - what is the real life range like going at a decent speed on the motorway.
Tesla quote 360 miles for the M3 long range, but how far would it go at 90mph? Furthest I have to drive with work is 280miles (one way) - I’d ideally want to be able to bash that out in one go, then have a bit of range left over to get to a charger on the way back.