[Closed] Teachers hours

I would definitely not get promoted if I was 'out the school gate at 3pm'.

School doesn't finish till 3.35.

When was the last time anyone at Ofsted said anything positive about teachers?

Told me I was good! Although they couldnt be bothered to come and see me last time!

Told me I was good! Although they couldnt be bothered to come and see me last time!

When was the last time anyone at Ofsted said anything positive about teachers?

Well if you're a teacher then it's probably not a very good idea to publicise that.

Only good? That's the new satisfactory! 😉

What's this pay rise we're all getting that he talks of? I thought we still had a pay freeze. Increased pension contribution means a net pay cut.

Damn my slow fingers, beaten to it!

Positive comments in the media, I meant.

What's this pay rise we're all getting that he talks of?

He didn't say you're getting a pay rise - he said you've got to work harder if you want one.

Only good? That's the new satisfactory!

😆 I know and the crazy thing is I've been good for years and havent the first ****ing clue how I would be outstanding 😆 But if it really is the new satisfactory I bet I get outstanding this year for performance man then the senior leaders can say the school is improving. I would also add that my results were better than our science advanced skills teacher who teachers about two lessons a week and is outstanding!

Teacher's hours

our science advanced skills teacher who teache[s]r[/s]s about two lessons

Sorry, just thought that was rather pertinent. 😉

I know and the crazy thing is I've been good for years and havent the first **** clue how I would be outstanding But if it really is the new satisfactory I bet I get outstanding this year for performance man then the senior leaders can say the school is improving. I would also add that my results were better than our science advanced skills teacher who teachers about two lessons a week and is outstanding!

Members of staff who went the "extra mile", Sir Michael explained, would be paid well and receive promotion.

And the problem with this is?

you've lost me ed.
Captain... you does love ya gramma dont ya?

AA, I do, it is true! Especially when it comes from those who are charged with, or who chose the task of, educating de yoof. 😉

What is an advanced skills teacher?

What is an advanced skills teacher?

One that can spell, perhaps? 😉

Advanced skills teachers are outstanding teachers who train other teachers within the school and in other schools and hence get more pay and a greatly reduced timetable.

Members of staff who went the "extra mile", Sir Michael explained, would be paid well and receive promotion.

nothing that I can see. Would be nice if it happend to be honest, its the trite crap about "out the school gate at 3.00" that grates.

Advanced skills teachers are outstanding teachers who train other teachers within the school and in other schools and hence get more pay and a greatly reduced timetable.

its the trite crap about "out the school gate at 3.00" that grates.

When I went to school [a long time ago] you had to be careful not to get run down by the teachers leaving the car park at knocking off time.

It was a bit like this [and it was actually in black and white in those days] you'll need to try and imagine that the Porches and Ferraris are Hillman Imps and Cortinas and the racing overalls are tweeds with leather elbow patches - apart from that - this could have been taken at our school on any given Friday at 4pm [none of that easy 3pm in those days] 😀

[img] [/img]

Do you have a cool title too

Site ****ing Sustainability Officer 😳

Just talked about this with my labour voting teacher girlfriend. The conclusion is that what he said it fair and reasonable if you actually read/listen to it rather than just looking at the headline. And for her to agree with anything from ofsted management is rare.

anagallis_arvensis - I trust you don't teach English?

Where is the problem with getting away from wages being decided at a national Level and giving autonomy to the schools? Many of my neighbours and friends are teachers and I have yet to experience a working day when I either leave home after them or arrive home before them. Never mind the holidays....

Equally, I hear very few positive things about NASUWT/NUT et al. Given the fear of being accused of child abuse, and the insurance offered by being a member of the Union, there really is no choice but to be a member. However in such a decentralised structure, it seems inappropriate for wages to be negotiated centrally.

In a decentralised business, if performance is poor, pay does not go up. Conversely, if performance is good, it is rewarded through pay and benefits. (assuming it is a half decent business).

Sorry, just thought that was rather pertinent

you found another, good work. Do you want a pay rise

My BiL is a dept head and my sis is a maths prof, I'm going to have some fun with this.

Oh to work a 12 hr day..

I'd shut up if I were you.

My BiL is a dept head and my sis is a maths prof, I'm going to have some fun with this.

Oh to work a 12 hr day..

I'd shut up if I were you.

National wages enable allow poorer areas to recruit good teachers. But i dont think thats the issue here.

As a teacher I have no problem with the hours I work (8 until 5:30 most days in school and between 10 minutes and 2 hours in the evening), however all this performance related pay is ridiculous. Ask any statistical mathematician what happens with a sample of less than 30 individuals, add in an ever changing number of pupils with special needs, English as a second language, itinerant (eg. Services) families etc and the fact that your pay rise could be lost because you've welcomed a dyslexic child with limited English into your class 3 weeks before 'judgement day' is likely to grate when your hard fought percentages drop through the floor. Mind you, I'm in Wales so this is only on the horizon, not a reality yet...

Neil.
I applude your positive attitude. 17 years of the game makes me wonder when it's that good!

Does that mean I can negotiate how many of the poorer pupils I take in my class? I mean if we are going to introduce performance related pay,then they will directly affect my take home pay. Surely the people suggesting that it is a good idea on this thread have no issue with me refusing to teach the bottom set as it will affect results? Or is (as usual)the imposition of a new business model only a one way street? Is it then fair for me to decide how many lower ability pupils I take? Absolutely not; But believe me, it will soon be down to results,with no accounting of pupil ability.
But here's the thing;In the next year we WILL be on a work to rule. The unions called off our last strike up here,in return the Government agreed to delay several "reforms"...which they then introduced. When we refuse to work more than our agreed contracts a lot of people will actually get a wee bit of an understanding of just what it is teachers do.

I can negotiate how many of the poorer pupils I take in my class

S'funny how there is always failure to learn, but never failure to teach.

The more I see and hear about this coalition gov. Ideas and policies , the more I think they have turned their time in power into a blackadder sketch.

Many of my neighbours and friends are teachers and I have yet to experience a working day when I either leave home after them or arrive home before them. Never mind the holidays....

And you get home and do another couple of hours work too, same as them?

Was thinking about this yesterday, because we have friends who are teachers (and some ex-teachers), and in my experience (as the child of teachers), nowadays they work way harder than teachers used to. Current ones seem to be 8-5 plus 2 hours many nights, plus time at the weekends. It just seems like there is so much extra around the job other than teaching that takes time nowadays. Not sure why - I guess part of it is the obsession with auditing teachers 'quality' in 'measurable' ways maybe.

My sisters are both deputy heads and something to do with SENKO (?) they barely got any more money for the roles given the additional roles.. One sister is a single mum and got grief as she has to leave school at end of school time to take her kids home but then works when she gets home. I give them grief as they have 6wks 'off' ocer summer hols and 2-3 at Christmas. They do work bloody hard in the mean time and really long hours.

S'funny how there is always failure to learn, but never failure to teach.

What, so it isn't harder to teach people who speak a second language, or who are behind in their learning partly thanks to a poor background? Or it isn't harder to teach people who have behavioural problems in part due to a disordered home life? Or who find it hard to concentrate because they are always hungry as their parents can't afford food (we live in a society where schools are having to set up breakfast clubs to ensure their kids are vaguely nourished at the start of the school day - how screwed up is that?).

Not that this necessarily rules out some kind of performance related pay, but it does make it obvious that crude mathematical measures based purely on results are somewhat flawed - I mean it is obviously way way easier to achieve good results with an easy set of kids at a selective school, than with a random set of kids at an inner city school, and only some of the factors involved in that will be reflected in individual child measures of the previous level of their attainment.

ScottChegg - Member
I can negotiate how many of the poorer pupils I take in my class
S'funny how there is always failure to learn, but never failure to teach.

POSTED 25 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

I see; so every pupil is a potential A+ pass only let down by poor teaching...Don't know anything about teaching,or the variety of abilities and circumstances in a class of 25 pupils do you?

Feel free to continue trying to troll,or you could try and add something to the thread.

25??!!?? I'm moving to Scotchland. Just two questions, first do I need a work permit and do I have to support the rugby team?

My sisters are both deputy heads and something to do with SENKO (?) they barely got any more money for the roles given the additional roles.

that sounds fishy (assuming they are in a secondary school)either they are telling porkies to get sympathy or they have been shafted and need to get in touch with their union rep. Either way they will definately be working hard and not finishing at 15:30 THEY MAYBE LEAVING SCHOOL THEN BUT THEY WILL HAVE WORK TO DO AT HOME.

One secondary and one primary. They were given the ultimatum of its this role or job loss. Yes they both work at home of not at school.

A-A; One of the Scottish Government's promises was 20 in a class; obviously they have changed that so are increasing sizes. 30-35 at S1 and S2; a bit less at 3 and 4. In answer to your other questions; you will need a permit from next year and why not support the rugby team? It will just seem like supporting Wales in the 80's and 90's...

joemarshall - Member
Many of my neighbours and friends are teachers and I have yet to experience a working day when I either leave home after them or arrive home before them. Never mind the holidays....
And you get home and do another couple of hours work too, same as them?

Yup.

If we want to get into the 'pissing up the railway line' discussion I'm quite confident of victory thanks.

Many teachers need to be able to collect their own kids from a local junior school when it finishes. They came into teaching from other careers as they decided they couldn't afford childcare. They collect kids, go home and do more work. Just because people leave at 3.30 doesn't mean that's when they stop working. Also - I arrive at 7am at the latest every day. This means I can fit in 1.5hrs of work before school. Obviously I should instead arrive at 8.30am and leave 1.5hrs later in the evening as that would make me a better teacher. For a successful head, this chap really is a moron.

On an annual basis, I currently organise 6 fieldtrips, keynote lectures, enrichment classes, revision classes, mock interviews x2, Oxbridge provision... If Wilshaw would like to suggest I should work harder I'd like to see how I am supposed to fit it all in... Oh and I also teach lessons.

As a final rant - my parents taught me to read and helped with Maths and spelling. These days too much responsibility is devolved to schools by parents.

GB

I agree Gee,
as a teacher I realised the importance of helping my daughter with Maths and spelling. Putting the time in with your offspring in terms of positive attitudes and the strength to attempt difficult things and brush off failure & having another go is vital.

20 years of parent evenings only reinforce this opinion.

However the thread is about pay, if you really don't like it get out.
Or if teaching is such a cushy number, try it.

However the thread is about pay

So why is it titled "Teachers hours" ?

gee - do you work at a state school or an independent one ?

I don't normally post on education threads but this one is of interest.

I work in a large secondary with around 100 teaching staff. Some arrive just in time and leave on the bell, this does annoy me. The majority don't do this.

Personally I leave the house before 7am and have a 10-15min drive to work. I work from the moment I get into school, through lunch time and normally get home well after 6. 7pm has become the norm. I am on the SLT so don't have as much planning as others, my partner teaches more classes than I currently have and spends at least 5-6 hours on a weekend planning/marking/prep.

Our school has just moved to a new build. During the summer I had one day off and worked two of the weekends to ensure that the move was successful. I don't know how much harder I could work.

Its all a slightly daft debate this anyway. Only those who have taught 6 50 min lessons in a day can have any idea what its like. Certainly there's no time for posting here!

As a final rant - my parents taught me to read and helped with Maths and spelling. These days too much responsibility is devolved to schools by parents.

It's more than just helping with academic subjects though.

Drives me into a gibbering frenzy when I hear my kids didn't get to do a proper days lessons because some parent has not taught their little treasure how to behave in school so the teacher has been on riot control dealing with one or two little scrotes rather than educating the rest of the class.

The biggest problem I have is that teachers seem to come over as though they are the only ones that have to take work home, deal with stressful situations , work late or have targets to achieve etc etc they aren't.Much of this thread is taken up like many when it is about teachers with teachers telling us how hard they work.It may come as a shock but I expect you to work hard and no I don't have a problem with your salary, the amount of holidays you get or your expectation of a reasonable pension.

that teachers seem to come over as though they are the only ones that have to take work home, deal with stressful situations

I dont think anybody on this thread has said they only work 20 hours or that they have 6 months holiday have they?

I think you missed my point because I over egged the pudding to highlight th e fact many accuse them of not really working. You then did not comment on the thrust of my point or my counter to yours

D-
see me after class

I think you missed my point because I over egged the pudding to highlight th e fact many accuse them of not really working. You then did not comment on the thrust of my point or my counter to yours

D-
see me after class

Well I dont appear to be able to teach you or get you to respond to my point. However I have managed to make you attack me rather than my point. You must be proud of this surely?

Perhaps I am just one of the bad lazy ones rather than it being due to what I have been given to work with 😉

I have made my point and am not really interested in gently insulting each other but thanks for the offer to meet me by the bike sheds but i shall decline.

Im really not attacking you or teachers, as I initially said I haven't a problem with your holidays,salary or the expectation of a good pension.Im just pointing out how teachers seem to come over on this thread and many other connected to teaching.

Please tell me you aren't a teacher junkyard

did some one else do there grammas bad?

I work in an independent school. Did 1.5yrs in state and got fed up buying my own glue sticks and scissors for activities. The behaviour I could cope with/manage - it was the chronic underfunding that got me.

So really Wilshaw can say what he likes as he isn't my Chief Inspector... Thank god. Doesn't stop me thinking he's a moron though.

GB

Ed2001 - Member

It may come as a shock but I expect you to work hard ....

Why do you expect teachers to work hard, assuming that hard is more than normal ?

I just expect them to work normally, or do you think working at an average intensity should be reserved for other professions ?

Im just pointing out how teachers seem to come over on this thread

most of the teachers i have met in real life have trouble leaving that dictatorial talking down to children thing behind once they leave the school gates, which is why they often seem to socialise together.
i did some work for a school once and the teacher that took me to the cafe over the road told me to "watch for the traffic" " mind the step" " cross now" "ask for a receipt"
felt like saying "give it a rest, i'm not a child" instead i put a stink bomb in her handbag and reported her to ofsted for inappropriate touching in the stationary cupboard

I only slip in to that mode when i am with a moron who need such guidance...often they are too dumb to see they need help with even the simplest tasks and get a little emotional and upset.

Bless them and their cotton wool heads eh.

it is easy to do this sort of thing but somewhat pointless

Ed2001 - Member
Im really not attacking you or teachers, as I initially said I haven't a problem with your holidays,salary or the expectation of a good pension.Im just pointing out how teachers seem to come over on this thread and many other connected to teaching.

I'm afraid your point just doesn't make sense in the context of the usual teacher bashing lazy bar steward threads.

it is easy to do this sort of thing but somewhat pointless

why do it then? it's obvious you recognise the fact that a lot of teachers do this 'talking at' thing.
they need to learn to stop being so institutionalised.

I only slip in to that mode when i am with a moron who need such guidance

still got the tufty club badge, not been run over or had a near miss yet, must have had a good teacher. 🙄

I'm afraid your point just doesn't make sense in the context of the usual teacher bashing lazy bar steward threads.

why do it then?

it's obvious you recognise the fact that a lot of teachers do this 'talking at' thing.

How on earth can you conclude that?
that is the opposite of what I think
😯

why do it then? it's obvious you recognise the fact that a lot of teachers do this 'talking at' thing.

arrh bless, were you bullied at school too?

anagallis_arvensis - Member
arrh bless, were you bullied at school too?

This is never going to make a teacher look good, especially when defending their profession.

It is daft to say all teachers do this

Who said all teachers do this?
Is that true?

you should try being a lecturer in an fe college; this term, i have doubled my course size; i run a course that has 64 students,have exactly the same standards to meet as schools,the course is equiv to three A levels, have been graded as good and outstanding for 15 years, with one satisfactory grade in that time. i start at 8.30, leave at 5.30 most days, never at 3! teach all week, with 3 hours admin.

we teach the kids who the schools, dont want/fail or choose to come to us, we often turn them round and exceed national benchmarks.

and for that i get less holidays than school teachers and earn under £27 k.

and it can be the best job in the world, until you walk out the studio and into some manager who makes you feel like you have just trodden in a piece of dog shit...

I dont really care about looking good or defending my profession tbh. The guy obviously didnt get enough hugs as a kid or is terminally stupid. I am presuming of course he's an adult. If he is under the age of twenty i dont mind him being stupid.

This is never going to make a teacher look good, especially when defending their profession.

arrh bless, were you bullied at school too?

Teaching is tough, time consuming and long hours.

Most of us do care about the children.

I'm at a new school and feel sorry for the kids as most of the
parents don't give a 5hite.

I'm playing councillor all the time and referring abuse all the time.

Talking down? I tell my students to hold their heads up high.

Bit fed up with poor behaviour and the lack of school support.

All my classes are moving forward now and suddenly they are putting a mentally disturbed child in a class who
will get A's and I'm now worried about their safety as I'm told he is violent and will run around shouting beep beep?!

Bring back hard old fashioned respect and discipline or welcome more city violence.

Need the career advice financing to return.

Mr Smith I am sure you wish to comment now on how you got my entire position completely wrong and completely misunderstood my point...what no you want to troll on and continue the dance...sadly you now have to dance alone.
I was only joking when i said moron , can I apologise for that.

You see some things you certainly would rather not as a teacher Frankenstein. Maybe you'll find roadrunner will be fine. Sometimes things just click with certain teachers and certain kids.

I'm not sure the old days were better though

as i'm having five minutes off from marking the work of little people i thought i'd have a look at stw, whata mistake a to make a!
i came to teaching from engineering and love the job to pieces, when little johny or whoever says, oh yeah i get that sir it's worth the world. when i get to break up girls ripping hair out of each others heads it's not so good. (that is a tiny percentage of the time but alarmingly more common than it should be)
counselling, all the time, caring (hopefully), feeling undermined (certainly), the new satisfactory etc is utter BS. I do leave at 3 some days, hand held high and waving. but two nights out of four i run after school clubs, one out of four we have a meeting and the other is used for revision classes. i usually get there at half seven ish and most days work through lunch.
i do remember though working twelve hours as an engineer and getting four weeks holiday a year!
i love teaching and the time it gives me with my kids, ofsted is an evil which we need, but they do need to leave us alone to get on with doing our job. the majority of us work flipping hard and care.
oh and to the politicians, we (the teachers) are TRYING to shape the future.

Teaching is the most awesome job ever...if you have a great school, great colleagues and enjoy the company of kids. I take great pride in being a teacher and I really enjoy it, which is why I chose it as a career. The holidays are tops, about 17 weeks paid a year, and in the last 7 years these have included paid for trips to Verbier x4, Aosta Valley x1, Cyprus x2, Berlin x4, Krakow and Auschwitz x1, Chamnonix x1 plus DofE expeditions twice a year in the UK. I get to coach rowing and netball, train 15 year olds in weapon handling, read as many books as I can get my hands on and indulge my passion for my subject (History).
We all have our choices; mine = winning.

Its worth some people on here remembering that most teachers have as much if not more influence on our childrens future as we do as parents.

Be grateful for good teachers and their relentless efforts and hope they are rewarded well so they can be happy and motivated to continue doing what they are doing.

Be grateful for good teachers and their relentless efforts and hope they are rewarded well so they can be happy and motivated to continue doing what they are doing.

+1

And let's identify and remove/retrain the ones who are absolutely crap. They do exist and they need identifying and retraining/removing, because they are damaging the reputations of the good teachers and failing to help their charges to achieve their potential.

And let's identify and remove/retrain the ones who are absolutely crap. They do exist and they need identifying and retraining/removing, because they are damaging the reputations of the good teachers and failing to help their charges to achieve their potential.

Indeed, but the tricky part is finding others to do it who are better.

Lapierrelady, do you work in state school?

Is overworking and underpaying teachers really going to give kids the best education?

And this "everyone must be good" policy seems to be the exact opposite of what the Conservonazis want from GCSE and A level grades where they want kids to be marked as a C grade despite being as clever as a B grade kid from 10 or 20 years ago.