[Closed] Tarot readers / psychics - load of old cobblers?

igrf

Very funny re me 😀
Only 1 out of 4 though

it basically knew the day we were returning every time.

Its a good counter then

Even today, my current dog(s), know the moment I leave the office.

I don't/didn't think this trait was even in dispute, that animals have another sense is a given.

Humans being psychic is silly but animals is just making me chuckle - I would like to see the grant application for that research

GrahamS - unfortunately, amongst some other stuff, the stand out prediction was that my best mate would die suddenly in the near future.

Mmm... that's less fun than my predictions. Sorry. 🙁

Questions: why did she tell you rather than your best mate? How specific was she? Was it "something bad will happen to someone you know" or much more specific?

I did not say any of this is 'supernatural'...

Being able to predict the future is by any definition "supernatural".

There is a shit load of research on the subject of ESP, go google, look for yourself.

You mean like this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20145664

To my mind it is a person of limited experience that is more likely to simply debunk the existence of 'other senses', better to my mind to accept it and attempt to understand why

What you mean like my sense of balance? There's another sense for you. To my mind it is the mark of an idiot that accepts everything without question.

But I'd love someone to explain to me for instance why certain character traits are exhibited by folk born at periodic times of the year and forms the basis of Astrology another bullshit source of magic dusters. Yet an extraordinary number of Arians turn up as facist dictators and Librans their polar opposites equally in leading roles in society and Gemini's in Advertising and Sagitarians in Graphic design and the arts, why is that?

Hmmm tricky one that, not sure if it has been mentioned but I [i]think[/i] that that might just be an example of confirmation bias.

Don't you find any of it a tad fascinating?

Nope, tiresome nonsense if I'm honest.

[img] /462px-[/img]

I'd like to believe that some folk do have a "gift".

However first words from the one i saw, "i've done a reading for your sister"
"i don't have a sister"
"are you sure?"
"are you questioning my mother?"

awkard moment.

Junkyard, in a similar vein, you missed yesterdays adventure with a chiropractor in Edinburgh..

gonefishin - Member
In any case none of the supports any of your previous claims that you can predict the future.

I don't recall saying I could predict the future, other than you might be in for a long and argumentative thread.

I dont think many of us get to 30 without loosing a mate tbh - also you tend to remember what they say that was accurate not inaccurate
Sorry for your loss

FWIW my mum used to drag me to these as a child and it is hilarious to give them all the wrong cues to information and them watch as they start "reading " you wrong

For example I used to pretend to be gay or other falsehood - off to join the army or similiar and no one ever corrected me. try it yourself go to one nod and encourage when they are wrong and look confused and disbelieving when they are right and see what happens and where the predictions go

I'd like to believe that some folk do have a "gift".

Why?

You know igrf you had me going for a while

But then you came out with this:

But I'd love someone to explain to me for instance why certain character traits are exhibited by folk born at periodic times of the year and forms the basis of Astrology another bullshit source of magic dusters. Yet an extraordinary number of Arians turn up as facist dictators and Librans their polar opposites equally in leading roles in society and Gemini's in Advertising and Sagitarians in Graphic design and the arts, why is that? Gravitational alignment effecting cell strucure? Does it work opposite for folk born in the Southern hemisphere, I wonder if anyone has even checked.

Now I [b]know[/b] you are taking the p and are just having a laugh

all sorts of what I believe to be bollox when 'palm reading' young ladies, which has been to correct to be co-incidence far too often to the point I really don't want to do it.

There you go.

My mum goes to card readings, and she's a catholic LOL. Double dose

I'd like to believe that some folk do have a "gift".

I bet she tells your mum that you'll meet a tall dark handsome stranger a lot emsz?

gonefishin - Member
Nope, tiresome nonsense if I'm honest.

Then one questions why you are even wasting keystrokes on the subject.

I on the other hand do find it fascinating and have done this past fifty years, ever since my Gran went really pale reading the tea leaves one day whilst I was a kid and my Grandad died the next day, unexpectedly.

We all have our personal experiences that form our beliefs, that is all one can ever take from a discussion like this and the sure knowledge that if you do seriously attempt to promote what I've been alluding to here, folk assume you're a nutter, in my case not that far from the truth. 😉

the question is, do things that mediums tell you become true or do you start living your life aiming for what the medium told you?

[img] [/img]

Well, the Kaiser Chiefs were spot on about that riot.
Explain THAT & stay fashionable.

richmtb - Member
You know igrf you had me going for a while

But then you came out with this:

But I'd love someone to explain to me for instance why certain character traits are exhibited by folk born at periodic times of the year and forms the basis of Astrology another bullshit source of magic dusters. Yet an extraordinary number of Arians turn up as facist dictators and Librans their polar opposites equally in leading roles in society and Gemini's in Advertising and Sagitarians in Graphic design and the arts, why is that? Gravitational alignment effecting cell strucure? Does it work opposite for folk born in the Southern hemisphere, I wonder if anyone has even checked.
Now I know you are taking the p and are just having a laugh

Ha if you knew me for real, it's worse than that, there are certain folk back in the day I wouldn't employ unless they are certain Astrological star signs, I'm that convinced of the veracity of it.

I know it's true, what I don't know is why.

Crikey,

Something like that I suspect. LOL

an extraordinary number of Arians turn up as facist dictators ...

Hmmm... a bit googling.. [url= http://www.filibustercartoons.com/monsters.htm ]list of nasty dictator types[/url]..

Adolf Hitler, 20 April 1889: [b]Aries[/b] (possibly)*
Benito Mussolini, 29 July 1883: [b]Leo[/b]
António de Oliveira Salazar 28 April 1889: [b]Taurus[/b]
Francisco Franco, 4 December 1892: [b]Sagittarius[/b]
Ion Antonescu, June 15, 1882: [b]Gemini[/b]
Ante Pavelic, 14 July 1889: [b]Cancer[/b]
Slobodan Milosevic: 20 August 1941: [b]Leo[/b]

*(based on 2011 [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_astrology ]Tropical Zodiac[/url], can't be arsed to check the exact dates for each sign on the birth year - I think my point is made!)

I'm perfectly happy to believe that some people have more Derren Brown in them than others, and that animals can sense things that people can't, and that people are often more easily manipulated than they might like to think. Take those things, add in some confirmation bias and selective memory, and away you go- no need for any supernatural explanations.

That BBC article someone else linked to earlier has some good quotes from the 'psychics' who turned out not to be psychic at all though, nicely demonstrating the a$$-backwards view some people have of proof.

Well GrahamS look on the bright side - if igrf was hiring a fascist dictator then Mussolini, Franco, Mioseciv & co would never have made the short list.

Ha if you knew me for real, it's worse than that, there are certain folk back in the day I wouldn't employ unless they are certain Astrological star signs, I'm that convinced of the veracity of it.

I know it's true, what I don't know is why.

There are 7 billion people in the world so over 500 million for each sign of the Zodiac. Out of those 500 million people you could select for absolutely any trait you wanted and get hundreds of thousands -if not millions - of people that would confirm the trait you chosen for them.

But then I'm a Taurus so I would say that!

an extraordinary number of Arians turn up as facist dictators ...

Should that not be Aryans!

rich - I predict you'll be getting your coat!

the question is, do things that mediums tell you become true or do you start living your life aiming for what the medium told you?

Schrödinger's cat?

Your future can be anything at all until a medium opens the box and tells you what it is. That would be a pretty damn good reason to avoid all this if you ask me 😀

I think my point is made!)

[ puts up[ hand earnestly going pleass Sir pick me]Is it that we need Kaesae to lead the research as the data is confused?

What about my people in Syria and Assad ?
😯

His Birthday is the 11 th Spetember - just syaing like but I so wan to make 5 or perhaps even 7 with that

GrahamS - Member
an extraordinary number of Arians turn up as facist dictators ...
Hmmm... a bit googling.. list of nasty dictator types..
- I think my point is made!)

Yes, mine rather badly put, it should have been warlord types rather than facist. Was thinking more along the lines of Napolean, Hitler, even the bloody prophet Mohammed and at the other end of the scale the Librans, Thatcher, Putin and I honestly can't remember them all.

You think that Putin the [i]opposite[/i] of a Fascist dictator? Now you've really lost the plot.

According to Wiki Napoleon was a Leo.

Napoleon Hitler and Muhammed are now all the same due to their birthdate

Well I for one can barely tell them apart by looking at their actions or their written books.

Of course Thatcher and Putin are at the opposite end to this trio as , after all, they are alive
Anyway can we get back on to the important issue Physic dogs - which star sign is best

Yes, mine rather badly put, it should have been warlord types rather than facist. Was thinking more along the lines of Napolean, Hitler, even the bloody prophet Mohammed...

[img] [/img]
[i]"This way lads, left a bit..."[/i]

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napolean ]Napolean was born in 15 August 1769 [/url] which makes him Leo or maybe Cancer.

I don't think the birth date of Muhammad is known. Sunni Muslims observe His birthday on the 12th day of the Islamic month of Rabi' al-awwal, while Shi'a Muslims mark it on the 17th.

Physic dogs - which star sign is best

everyone knows dog years are different to human ones. i fear you are barking up the wrong tree.

The only reason I'm scathing about this stuff is that I am actually a [i]genuine[/i] Medium.

It says so on my pants.

Ha if you knew me for real, it's worse than that, there are certain folk back in the day I wouldn't employ unless they are certain Astrological star signs, I'm that convinced of the veracity of it.

You've got to be trolling. Please?

everyone knows dog years are different to human ones. i fear you are barking up the wrong tree

Who are you who is so wise in the ways of science

What about Chineses ones ? Surely a dog born in the year of the dog must haver a head start?

Is the dogs name Cerberus?

😀

All Geminis that I know are two-faced bastards.

Clearly all the starsign must be nonsense. 12 signs dictating the personalities and lives of everyone.

The Japanese might have it right with blood types though - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20170787

I once went out with a cancer - she gave me crabs.

igrf - Member

Ha if you knew me for real, it's worse than that, there are certain folk back in the day I wouldn't employ unless they are certain Astrological star signs, I'm that convinced of the veracity of it.

If you'd have done that to me, I'd sue you for every penny you've got, you stupid numbskull. 👿

Ah - but he'd have taken you on because he'd know you'd sue him otherwise.

In fact, Graeme, are you still responsible for recruitment into your firm? I think it bears investigation, in the public interest...

"Watchdog", perhaps.

Honestly, the stuff people will believe. They'll be telling us that expensive speaker cables improve sound quality next...

Fortunately, we're not in France, where the use of "graphology" in recruitment is widespread and considered acceptable, even meaningful.

Fortunately, we're not in France, where the use of "graphology" in recruitment is widespread and considered acceptable, even meaningful.

Or in Japan, where people are discriminated against because of their blood group.

GrahamS - Member

"This way lads, left a bit..."

Napolean was born in 15 August 1769 which makes him Leo or maybe Cancer.

I don't think the birth date of Muhammad is known. Sunni Muslims observe His birthday on the 12th day of the Islamic month of Rabi' al-awwal, while Shi'a Muslims mark it on the 17th.

Well I have to bow to your superior googling, I must say all this time I'd been given to the belief that those three were as detailed, so I must be totally wrong.

What a shame, all those folks I didn't hire over all those years on misinformation. 😥

This is in danger of descending into a troll now. Oh and woppit yes and no, no I wouldn't hire anyone from the internet anyway and certainly not from this place, you all spend far too much time on here at someone's expense..

I spend far to much time on here as well and I most certainly wouldn't hire me.

None of this however disproves the additional sensory perception that certain humans appear to be gifted with.

[quote=igrf ][s]GrahamS - Member
"This way lads, left a bit..."
Napolean was born in 15 August 1769 which makes him Leo or maybe Cancer.
I don't think the birth date of Muhammad is known. Sunni Muslims observe His birthday on the 12th day of the Islamic month of Rabi' al-awwal, while Shi'a Muslims mark it on the 17th.
Well I have to bow to your superior googling, I must say all this time I'd been given to the belief that those three were as detailed, so[/s] I must be totally wrong.
[s]What a shame, all those folks I didn't hire over all those years on misinformation.
This is in danger of descending into a troll now. Oh and woppit yes and no, no I wouldn't hire anyone from the internet anyway and certainly not from this place, you all spend far too much time on here at someone's expense..
I spend far to much time on here as well and I most certainly wouldn't hire me.
None of this however disproves the additional sensory perception that certain humans appear to be gifted with.[/s]
By jove, I think he's got it!

the additional sensory perception that certain humans appear to be gifted with.

Hearsay. Yours.

Well I have to bow to your superior googling,... all those folks I didn't hire over all those years on misinformation.

Really it took me less than 2 minutes of googling to show what complete nonsense that was.

Did you never think to maybe question your "facts" a little bit?

Rather than just blindly accepting that personality traits can be neatly bundled into 12 different types based on the apparent position of our sun, relative to the perceived position of stars literally trillions of miles away, at the time of someone's birth.

And accepting that so thoroughly that you claim to have made career decisions based on it!

If you'd have done that to me, I'd sue you for every penny you've got, you stupid numbskull.

Pffftt.. typical Taurus. 😆

None of this however disproves the additional sensory perception that certain humans appear to be gifted with.

Very true but sadly irrelevant. The burden of proof lies with those that make the claims (that would be you)not those who question it (that would be most of us).

my dog is psychic- just has trouble communicating it

Unless someone has fallen down a well. Dogs are great at that.

Or is that kangaroos..

Unless someone has fallen down a well. Dogs are great at that.

Or is that kangaroos..

Both.

[img] [/img] [img] [/img]

And dolphins too.

[img] [/img]

GrahamS - Member
Well I have to bow to your superior googling,... all those folks I didn't hire over all those years on misinformation.
Really it took me less than 2 minutes of googling to show what complete nonsense that was.

Did you never think to maybe question your "facts" a little bit?

Er why? So i could prevail in a discussion on an internet forum about er Astrology something I don't get and was actually asking a question about anyway?

Rather than just blindly accepting that personality traits can be neatly bundled into 12 different types based on the apparent position of our sun, relative to the perceived position of stars literally trillions of miles away, at the time of someone's birth.

And accepting that so thoroughly that you claim to have made career decisions based on it!

Well lucky for me, it's my money I'm about to waste on one of those 12 divisions of human personality traits which, before the advent of psychometric testing were as good as any other method for deciding wether the lying slacker that's sat there in front of you at the interview table was going to do what you asked of him or her rather than spend all day on an internet forum or Facebook..

If you'd have done that to me, I'd sue you for every penny you've got, you stupid numbskull.
Pffftt.. typical Taurus.

As for the likes of woppit and the no win no fee lawyers that offer to make that idle threat an actual fact should for example it be down to his age, or other imagined impediment to him not being successful in his application, the birth date is generally there clear to see before you even get an interview so he'd never know.

So an even more effective means of sorting through a bunch of interviews, Hmm 'no-one born between March 21st and April 20th need apply' that would go down well in an advert, I wonder how long it would take for legislation to be enacted along the lines of astrological discrimination. 😆

[img] [/img]

the birth date is generally there clear to see before you even get an interview so he'd never know.

HE so we can add sexism to this as well..shakes head in disbelief

Trolling but entertaining

Junkyard - Member
the birth date is generally there clear to see before you even get an interview so he'd never know.
HE so we can add sexism to this as well..shakes head in disbelief

Trolling but entertaining

That astrological bollox dated back to the print and graphics industry where, if you were looking to take on trainees into a particularly creative environment and you had no other method to sort through lots and lots of potential applicants, then generally Gemini and Sagitarians would place ahead if there were no obvious other method to chose from for the graphics and creative roles whereas there were others specific to other tasks, it's a long time ago now, I forget what they all were, but it was a phase back in the late seventies early eighties.. But it did happen, not a troll and I wasn't the only person using what would it be called these days, astrological profiling?,

Ah so the one that uses [b]impartial[/b] and [b]demonstratably objective [/b]data is the one that is dogma and blind.

The standard positivist view of empirically acquired information has been that observation, experience, and experiment serve as neutral arbiters between competing theories. If you looks at the work of Thomas Kuhn he has has promoted the concept that these methods are influenced by prior beliefs and experiences. So it cannot be expected that two scientists when observing, experiencing, or experimenting on the same event will make the same theory-neutral observations. The role of observation as a theory-neutral arbiter may not be possible. Theory-dependence of observation means that, even if there were agreed methods of inference and interpretation, scientists may still disagree on the nature of empirical data

The problem with science is that it is very easy to treat it as an absolute rather than based on a series or repeatable observation that can influenced by tester bias, it can therefore never be truly impartial or demonstrably objective without acknowledging it's limitations.

If you cannot see why Grum takes the piss out of stuff like this then I pray your future seeing is superior to your present seeing.

Grum gobs off at anything I've written, bike related, music related, anything really, he's **** and one of the few folk I'd dearly like to meet in person so he can so witty to my face.

[i]or repeatable observation [/i]

This is the key. Repeatability and repeatability under test conditions rather than anecdote.

Grum seems OK to me; he will tell me off for being a dick which is usually well deserved. I like to think that his second name is Py 😀

This is the key. Repeatability and repeatability under test conditions rather than anecdote.

totally agree....with that bit anyway 😀

On the subject of astrology, I remember reading yonks ago in Fortean Times an article (my google powers are weak today) suggesting that [b]if[/b] there is a statistically significant link between behaviour and date of birth, it could be explained by organic matter (e.g. panspermia) being delivered to the upper atmosphere via clouds of micro meteorites along earths orbit (with each cloud being slightly different, each taking about a month to pass through - you get the idea), which then affects foetal development. IIRC something like 50, 000 tonnes of material enters the atmosphere every year.

Interesting, but I'm a big fan of occam and his razor myself, or as crikey puts it: -

crikey - Member

If they were any good, why are they doing card reading at a few quid a time?

O.T., and in the vein of "jokes only geeks get", a friend told me he got a job 'remote sensing' for the government. It turns out he was checking forestry cover, NOT sitting in a cave figuring out what iranian nuclear scientists were up to 😳

Grum gobs off at anything I've written, bike related, music related, anything really, he's * and one of the few folk I'd dearly like to meet in person so he can so witty to my face.

So hang on, I say this:

Wow you really don't ever let up with the whole niche thing do you.

And you call me a short, fat stalker, then seemingly threaten to beat me up - and I'm the *?

Thanks crikey, love you too sexy. xx

🙂

I kind of understand; it's quite easy to feel someone doesn't like you because of the lack of nuance..

I had a Ouija board experience when I was about 14, and it was all done really well; the Granny took the girl aside and warned her in a stage whisper not to play with things she didn't understand, then 4 of us got involved in the whole lights off, scary glass moving thing.

The girl admitted to me about 10 years later that it had all been set up by her Granny, she'd been taught about how to do it, even managing a tearful scared face just before they came home, swearing us to silence...

The standard positivist view of empirically acquired information has been that observation, experience, and experiment serve as neutral arbiters between competing theories. If you looks at the work of Thomas Kuhn he has has promoted the concept that these methods are influenced by prior beliefs and experiences. So it cannot be expected that two scientists when observing, experiencing, or experimenting on the same event will make the same theory-neutral observations. The role of observation as a theory-neutral arbiter may not be possible. Theory-dependence of observation means that, even if there were agreed methods of inference and interpretation, scientists may still disagree on the nature of empirical data

The problem with that post-modernist view of truth is that it's basically bollocks. A glass of water has a certain volume, temperature, number of atoms etc. Trying to argue that "volume" or "temperature" are not "theory-neutral" may be fun, but it doesn't reflect reality in any meaningful way.

Of course, you may want to pose questions like "what is reality?", but if you do it near me I'll pour that glass of water over your head, and you'll soon find out.

A glass of water has a certain volume, temperature, number of atoms etc. Trying to argue that "volume" or "temperature" are not "theory-neutral" may be fun, but it doesn't reflect reality in any meaningful way.

Go on then [b]exact[/b] number of atoms in 100ml of water at STP?

1.67 * 10^23 molecules x 20.

Simples.

1.67 * 10^23 molecules x 20.

based on Avogadro's principle? or the new SI Mole there is a difference, so It's an approximate number not an EXACT number 😀

I'm doing my best!

Go on then exact number of atoms in 100ml of water at STP?

No idea, but that doesn't change the fact that 100ml of pure water has an exact number of molecules. It's not something that two scientists would ever disagree about - they may well disagree with the measurement, the method used to measure it, etc., but the reality is "theory-neutral".

so It's an approximate number not an EXACT number

No idea, but that doesn't change the fact that 100ml of pure water has an exact number of molecules. It's not something that two scientists would ever disagree about - they may well disagree with the measurement, the method used to measure it, etc., but the reality is "theory-neutral".

if we look at the SI mol, it was applied as an agreed fiddle factor to smooth out the Avogadro principle, so we now have an method for determining an agreed number of atoms in 100 ml of water at STP, but it will be different from that used before the SI agreement, so the scientists may well disagree that the exact number is 10. you can achieve theory neutral but the theory has to be suitably woolly to allow for the deviations.

Exact number of atoms in 100 mL of water can be quite a hard question, depending on who is asking it.
I don't think anyone could ever state an exact number, given the tiny uncertainty inherent to Avogadro's number. It could only ever be x molecules +/- y. Times by 3 for atoms.

Garry, exactly

The problem with that post-modernist view of truth is that it's basically bollocks. A glass of water has a certain volume, temperature, number of atoms etc

so it is possible 10 glasses each with 100ml of water at STP will contain different numbers of atoms, unlike mogrims stance in which all will be exactly identical

I think you're tying to catch him out unnecessarily - really all scientists would agree that the glass of water contains x molecules subject to a certain error margin. That error margin would be accepted by all as arising from the accuracy that the Avogadro number can be measured. This in turn is based on accepted atomic theory etc etc.

so it is possible 10 glasses each with 100ml of water at STP will contain different numbers of atoms, unlike mogrims stance in which all will be exactly identical

As all scientists agree with the reality of the situation you seem to have disproved your own point about it being subjective as all appear to objectively agree.
Proving that things are difficult to measure on the atomic level adds nothing to your original point re physic abilities nor does it add weight to your we all perceive objective reality differently as we all agree on reality.

Proving that things are difficult to measure on the atomic level adds nothing to your original point re physic abilities nor does it add weight to your we all perceive objective reality differently as we all agree on reality.

It's a bit more fundamental than that, I think tazzymtb is not just arguing that out perceptions of reality are different, but that there is no such thing as objective "reality", it's all subjective.

nah I'm just arguing cos it's fun, It's all bollards and I rely on hardcore science for my job, still it entertains junky 😀

but on a pure science level

our perceptions of reality are different

and

adds nothing to your original point re physic abilities

at no point did I mention physcic abilities. I clearly stated that tarot is not a means of predicting future but a tool to help focus the mind in meditation. See differing perceptions of reality