[Closed] Syria: Is it war or not?

Phew! That was close!

Cut the head off the snake and then let the people decide.

Tiny wee bit of faith restored in politics.

Government defeated, no strike on Syria

at least it keeps us plebians minds off a failing bank and shop chain,high cost of housing to rent and buy,high unemployment,covered up by educational courses of dubious merit,a failing nhs,failing established companies and a failing high street, higher fuel costs due uncertinity in the middle east, and the start of XFactor on saturday.

oh and the vote has refused cameroonoboomas wish to bomb innocent people.

Liking wrecker's idea alot. Can't see any way that our involvement would end well or really save lives in the long run. I take ernie's point but still prefer leaving them to fight it out amongst themselves till Russia/China lay down the rules.

hopefully cameroon and vague will now resign and let some other talking head take charge,somebody who doesnt live on the shoulder of obooma.

Bet Tony's happy anyway, he's gutted the ability of Britain to go to war due to massive public cynicism. Tony in his desire to show Britain is still an international player has done precisely the opposite.

Bahahahaarr... the cockwomble. He probably doesnt care though.

Russia/China lay down the rules.

Two countries that appear to have their heads screwed on when it comes to invading/attacking other nations.

Two countries that appear to have their heads screwed on when it comes to invading/attacking other nations

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783 ]vote says no [/url]

one things for sure, If Assad uses CW again, Miliband is doomed! 😯

Both votes no - a pleasant surprise. I hope that the BBC is correct in concluding that this rules out us joining any US-led strikes.

Clegg refused to rule out the use of UK-owned facilities (e.g. Akrotiri)

one things for sure, If Assad uses CW again, Miliband is doomed!

Why is that for sure ?

Opposing "punitive" strikes against Syria is very much in keeping with the wishes of the British electorate.

And Labour are a minority party in the House of Commons, for Cameron to lose the vote required MPs from his party to vote against.

I don't see any reason why Miliband might be be "doomed" by any future events in Syria. His political fortunes aren't tied up in the developments of a middle eastern country.

I think we should butt out of the civil war down there. Let some other country waste lives and money on the futile mission of trying to change a culture that is so vastly different from our own!

Sabre rattling politicians should face a tour of duty on the front line. That'd shut the bxxtards up!

Doh!, i had two threads open and i posted this below on the wrong thread, so i hope no one will take offence if i bring/copy&paste it over here where i thought i had posted it......anyway i'll add to it seeing i'm here now : I've not heard any politician raise this issue but i think it is incredibly suspect that chemical weapons were used when the UN inspection team were on the ground in Syria, Obama all but promised that any such reaction or escalation to use of chemical weapons would lead to US involvement which realistically means an end to Assad/syrian regime however you parcel it up, and as for this evidence that Cameron mentioned? - publish it all.

If we (collective western nations = US/Europe) should remove ourselves from meddling in the middle east as some have mentioned throughout this thread then i trust that we will also remove ourselves from support (military and political/financial) for Israel and let them stand on their own so to speak?, perhaps that will irk some people on this forum but it's exactly what i would say to someones face so i believe it's a fair comment to express and in no way supposes any disrespect to what happened 70+ years ago before i get shot down.

[i]From other thread below[/i]

Being devils advocate here and trying to see who benefits from an airstrike/regime change/possible ground war in Syria leaves one neighbouring country out in front, I don't buy it that Assad/syrian army sanctioned or used chemical weapons when the previous week Obama laid out a clear intention that if such weapons were used then the US would intervene, not to mention use them when UN inspectors were on the ground?, he may be crazy but that is hanging upside down bat-shit crazy. - Say what you like about Assad, and i'm sure he does deserve his reputation as there is no doubt he is as despicable and ruthless as he's made out to be but i do not think he is suicidal, nor do i imagine he wishes his government to fall due to US led airstrikes which is the only possible outcome he could expect if he used such chemical weapons against his own people.

Is it really above suspicion that a neighbouring country could have committed such an atrocious act to finger the Assad regime and engender it's removal?, if syria does fall then Iran may be next and then?.......

Someone is stirring the shit in the middle east.

IMHO of course.

As to the track record and credibility of Russia and China, one is a regime that will execute and persecute someone for being gay, and who has a terrible and recent post war record for geonocide on a massive scale. The other is a regime where their own people dish out unbeleivable cruelty to each other even when there isn't a civil war going on. But they are no worse than us.

the question was their record on invading other countries not on how they treated their own citizens

I don't understand why Israel would want to destabilise Syria, they were about to start negotiations regarding the Golan heights and that borders been very stable since 73, why would they want some Saudi sponsored nutters as neighbours instead of the very stable regime (like Jordan and Mubaraks Egypt).

the question was their record on invading other countries not on how they treated their own citizens

Well , Georgia wasn't that long ago, and the Chinese are having numerous stand offs with their neighbours over disputed territory...

Well there's a surprise! I went to bed expecting a rubber stamp vote, only to wake up and hear on the World Service that the mouse has roared. Will Cleggeron resign? No, but they ought to, given that they couldn't win a vote on such a fundemental issue of that such as peace and war. I'm sure that despite the "I get it" speech that they're planning some kind of workaround. We'll probably be shown yet more convenient atrocities and will be implored to Think Of The Children. As for Miliband, he'll get a short-term boost from his success but, true to form, he'll fail to capitalise on it.

ohnohesback - Member
I'm sure that despite the "I get it" speech that they're planning some kind of workaround.

I am sure the winner will be UKIP ...

I am sure the winner will be UKIP ...

Judging by how gutted the likes of Paxman et al on Newsnight were last night I think the big losers are the journalists and news organisations who are not now going to be able to report on it. They looked like someone had p*ssed on the their chips.

BBc news are currently running the film about kids being burnt in a playground, so very tragic for them.

But will the bbc be there showing the massive death and destruction when and if cameroooon and obooma finaly decide to bomb inocent people, women and their children, all just so they canshow to ignorant people that they are in control, and hopefully win a next election.

No the bbc subsidised by the governmnet will keep the governmnet line and say the bombs only killed naughty people, and if innocents accidently got kiled , they whhere just in the wrong place.

Assad needs to start handing out the Man U t shirts like we did to that poor sod who lost his arms and all his family after one of our little accidents.

BBc news are currently running the film about kids being burnt in a playground

Not that I have any truck with conspiracy theories, but it did seem a little coincidental that the BBC started broadcasting this at about 10pm last night. Apparently it the events in the film happened last week, so are we really expected to believe that they only received it just as MPs were voting on the very issue? Why didn't they broadcast it earlier?

Well Junkyard, you can always pick and choose the best bits to support arguments and conveniently dismiss the other bits, but that doesn't neessarily reflect a true image. Russia and China are both extremely cruel and savage regimes not much better than Assad and all the other dictator cronies.

How are we going to deal with other nations in issues such as this without any influence - and whether you like ior not influence only exists because of military strength and the threat that we could deploy it. By not voting to even agree to the principle of using force in the face of evidence that Assad deployed the weapons we have now excluded ourselves from the negotiating table and have no influence or credabiltiy. We are now merely witnesses to the worst post war atrocity and powerless to prevent a re-occurance.

Anyway, its all academic anyway. The weapons inspectors currenlty on the ground have no mandate nor the expertise to determine who it was who deployed the weapons, so it is a pre-determined conclusion that they will confirm chemical weapons were deployed, with no view or opinion on who deployed them. The UN and the rest of the worl will not get the conclusive proof they are looking for about who deployed the weapons. Assad, China and Russia knew this. The merry dance with the UN has begun. The UN wont issue a resolution, the US will go in by themselves. THis reminds me of Neville Chamberlin stepping off the aircraft waving his bit of paper going on about 'peace in our time', patting himself on his back after turning his back on the Czecoslovakians and sacrificing them to the Nazi cause. That didn't turn out too well in the end.

Comparing Syria with the Nazis is pretty silly. And the cry of 'appeaser' has always been the warmonger's last/first resort. In the end it comes down to whether the ends justify the means. In this case they have no idea what the 'ends' are so how does it help to lob a few hundred cruise missiles and smartbombs into Syria for the sake of keeping up appearances?

And as for 'worst postwar atrocity', 1000 civilians were killed in Egypt very recently by government forces, where's the clamour to bomb Egypt?

dazh - Member

I am sure the winner will be UKIP ...

Judging by how gutted the likes of Paxman et al on Newsnight were last night I think the big losers are the journalists and news organisations who are not now going to be able to report on it. They looked like someone had p*ssed on the their chips.

True true ... the media is bunch of fire starters and shite stirrers because all they really want is to see if they can push the govt into doing something and to influence people ... bloody hell talking about influencing zombies state ... 🙄

I always thought this was about Regime change......

General Election anyone ???? 😀

[img] [/img]

seems perfectly clear to me, globalti

worst post war atrocity

15 million or so dead in the great Chinese famine, I'd say that was worse.

globalti,

That's excellent depiction of the shite in that region.

😆 Excellent!