Don't hold back, Karin. Let it all out. 😀
I'm with Vickypea and Ransos. I'd like a proper answer to why it's ok to kill people with, say drones, but not ok to kill people with sarin gas?
Churchill held the same opinion. He was all for gassing the Germans.
I think youll find churchill gassed iraqi kurds too
As for why chemicals are a 'red line'?
according to the UN.....
100 000+ alleged deaths so far in 2.5yrs
and estimated 500-1300 in the chemical attack - thats 5-10% of all casualties in a single day and at least 100 of those children
I suppose that a gas is able to spread farther and therefore increase the risk of civillian casualties??
Im not sure thats any sort of justification for an retalliation and after all you wouldnt want to actually hit any chemical stockpiles
So using the forum as a snapshot of society most people don't want another war.
Can someone call up The Dear Leader (one paper today called him "Heir to Blair" can he sue?)and say not to worry and leave it to the Yanks.
I assume Honduras aren't really that bothered and its as irrelevant to them as it is to us.
I think whats amazing is how easily clegg has dropped his party's traditional anti-war stance
and bizarely its labour who are apparently insisting that the government get a UN mandate?
Somewhere in Afghan, earlier.
"right lads, do you want the good news first or the bad news"
"Good news please Sarge"
"Pack your bags we're leaving"
Interesting....
Not sure how much credence to give it but it seems the Mail story was genuine, and quickly pulled.
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I suppose that a gas is able to spread farther and therefore increase the risk of civillian casualties??
Indeed. The nerve gas attack happened a couple of miles or so from the centre of Damascus.
As this map shows :
[img] 
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Staying in a hotel in the centre of Damascus was the recently arrived 20 strong team of UN chemical weapons inspectors. The day of the attack was apparently quite a windy day in Damascus.
Perhaps the Syrian regime were trying to gas the UN inspectors ? !!
And possibly themselves !!
according to the UN.....
100 000+ alleged deaths so far in 2.5yrsand estimated 500-1300 in the chemical attack - thats 5-10% of all casualties in a single day and at least 100 of those children
Pardon? My maths is awful, but doesn't that require an extra digit somewhere?
Pardon? My maths is awful, but doesn't that require an extra digit somewhere?
nope youre right its my maths thats bad!
Surely we need to leave it to their neighbours to step in and resolve this? I know the UN can be a toothless organisation at best but there comes a time when we need to not follow the US in being self appointed guardians of world civilisation (or something like that as our track record isn't very good....).
6 Typhoons en route to Cyprus to "protect our assets".
And so it begins...
Surely we need to leave it to their neighbours to step in and resolve this?
Well Saudi Arabia and Qatar are arming the rebels, Iran is backing the Syrian government, and Lebanese militias are actively fighting in Syria. You could say that their neighbours are already actively involved. And the conflict has now started to spill into Lebanon, there's very good reasons for believing that it could have far reaching consequences throughout the region, these type of conflicts usually do.
I think Ed Milliband has upset some people at Tory central office.........
The Government could not contain its fury. “No 10 and the Foreign Office think Miliband is a f*** c and a copper-bottomed s***. The French hate him now and he’s got no chance of building an alliance with the US Democratic Party,” said one Government source.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3854838.ece
think Miliband is a f*** c and a copper-bottomed s***
Whilst I actually laughed, is this really how we expect our political elite to behave?
I'm quite happy with milibastard today, not just for stopping the govt making a grave error, but also for unfuriating some ****ers.
Yes, but it's all just posturing and choreography, as is this so-called 'debate' today. Regardles of the outcvome of any vote, he UK has committed itself to hanging on to Obama's shirt tails.
[quote=ohnohesback ]Yes, but it's all just posturing and choreography, as is this so-called 'debate' today. Regardles of the outcvome of any vote, he UK has committed itself to hanging on to Obama's shirt tails.
We have to. Up at Rosyth there's a big boat being built and another to follow, plus we're committed to several billions of pounds of fancy aeroplanes. If we scaled back UK military involvement around the world to stuff we [i]should[/i] be doing there wouldn't be enough sailors and pilots around by the time they are ready.
plus we're committed to several billions of pounds of fancy aeroplanes
Worse, we're spending billions of pounds on fancy aeroplanes that don't appear to work particularly well
Personally, I'd take every single man jack out of the middle east.
Take all of the money (every single pence/cent) spent by the allied forces on the various ME wars and invest it in finding a viable alternative to oil. The middle east would be poorer, but much safer. They can then get on with whatever they want to do. We'd have a cleaner planet and (hopefully) cheaper fuel.
Wrecker....spot on.
Now there's a sensible idea!
I like it wrecker. Unfortunately it wouldn't get off the ground as it would not allow 2nd rate wannabes like Tony B. Liar, CMD, William Vague and Nick "Bastard!" Clegg to preen and posture, showing what big important men they are. It would however give Ed "Splinter Arse" Millibland something else to fence sit about.
Nice idea though and a vote winner for me.
It's a pipedream. Never happen; the oil boys have too much power.
Plenty more ideas where that came from!
Military should be used to protect the planet (with a no f***ing about policy); Shoot dickheads chopping down rainforest, sink whalers, kill rhino/elephant poachers etc. Like greenpeace but with fast air. The brains could then set about ending famine (even with some GM if necessary) using the military to effect it.
think Miliband is a f*** c and a copper-bottomed s***.
Very Malcolm Tucker
Like greenpeace but with fast air.
Nice idea.
Lets give the whale hunter guys Nimitz class carriers and take it from there
Yep, I reckon the Nishin Maru might just lose if it tried to ram SSS Nimitz!
[url= http://www.theonion.com/articles/so-whats-it-going-to-be,33662/ ]so what's it going to be ?[/url]
The government has released a statement saying that Assad dunnit
except they havent actually shown any evidence
not even a dodgy dossier
how are MPs supposed to vote on war based on no evidence??
here it is......
We have assessed previously that the Syrian regime used lethal CW on 14 occasions from 2012. This judgement was made with the highest possible level of certainty following an exhaustive review by the Joint Intelligence Organisation of intelligence reports plus diplomatic and open sources. We think that there have been other attacks although we do not have the same degree of confidence in the evidence. A clear pattern of regime use has therefore been established.Unlike previous attacks, the degree of open source reporting of CW use on 21 August has been considerable. As a result, there is little serious dispute that chemical attacks causing mass casualties on a larger scale than hitherto (including, we judge, at least 350 fatalities) took place.
It is being claimed, including by the regime, that the attacks were either faked or undertaken by the Syrian Armed Opposition. We have tested this assertion using a wide range of intelligence and open sources, and invited HMG and outside experts to help us establish whether such a thing is possible. There is no credible intelligence or other evidence to substantiate the claims or the possession of CW by the opposition. The JIC has therefore concluded that there are no plausible alternative scenarios to regime responsibility.
Interesting article here......
This [i]judgement[/i]....we [i]think[/i]....a [i]clear pattern[/i]...has been [i]established[/i]....
Spot then deliberate mistake?!?
It really amounts to nothing more than strong circumstantial evidence.
It could be summarized as "Government forces have CWs, there is no evidence rebels have CWs. Only rebels and civilians died in the attack therefore it was very likely carried out by Govermnent forces"
While I can't deny the logic, if this is all the evidence I would say it falls short of the burden of proof required for unilateral military action
Much as I like wreckers idea, I think the option of nuking the entire region is infinitely preferable. I can't see why anyone outside Israel isn't pushing for it. The options only on the table for a couple of years, til Iran gets its grown up toys. Might as well get on with it now.
As for Millibean: I can presuming the conversation in the office went something like:
"What's Tony said on the subject? Riiiiight...... Right.... Ok...... Can someone draft mr a speech saying the exact opposite of that?"
So why is Cameron so determined to involve us in this war?
when is the next election?
Dear god! I've heard primary school children with more authority than Ed Milliband! Listening him stuttering about going to war is absolutely ridiculous! It's like listening to a 6 year old justifying his position.
Kryton57 - MemberSo why is Cameron so determined to involve us in this war?
Because every PM in office has been involved in some sort of war directly or indirectly.
If Cameron wants to maintain his profile he too must have his "winning" war(s) otherwise history will judge him as the weakest of all PMs. Which means no book publication, signing or speech giving and leading to future mega income obsolete.
🙄
"So why is Cameron so determined to involve us in this war?"
Well, recently, when he's woken up in the morning, his 'glory' isn't what it used to be... it's his age you understand; the changes that happen to all men of a certain age... in fact Sam Cam has been feeling quite let down and unsatisfied about it all. Making disabled people homeless no longer really does it for him now, he needs something more; so he's developed a fetish about imposing himself on vulnerable people overseas now. Once he'd finished his opening speech he had to rush to the nearest loo; I bet he could barely contain that eruption of pleasure, a feeling he's not had for many a year...
Wrecker I have it on good authority that there are some other commando units in the area as well, not just 3 commando, training for deployment.
Wrecker I have it on good authority that there are some other commando units in the area as well, not just 3 commando, training for deployment.
Ummm, 3 commando is the brigade which all commando units are within.
Many are on the med tour at present, which gets diverted on a regular basis......
Heh kk. The amount of damn names the different groups have gets confusing.
FFS did anyone just see the news? Dropping napalm on a school playground? Surely we must do something. Almost in tears watching that report.
Is napalm classed as a wmd?
Why should we go to war based on dead children, we killed plenty ourselves in iraq.
No, will our intervention actually saves more lives than its long term consequences kill.
The "No"s have it.
