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We were on holiday last week and found ourselves in a pet shop in Alnwick looking at Julius dog harnesses - the price seemed okay (I had no idea how much they were before going in the shop) but I thought I would check before buying so looked on Amazon. Amazon were fully (almost to the penny) 50% cheaper.
I WANTED to support a local shop but I couldn't justify spending £12.75 more for the identical item for the privilege. We did buy pooch some treats whilst we were there though so they did got some ££££s. (I didn't buy from Amazon either FWIW, still going to see if I can get one at a more comparable price in my local pet shop at home).
So what is a fair mark-up to support local?
It depends, what was the RRP?
Paying RRP at an independent is the price of walking away with it there and then
Having said that I got some trainers from a independent running shop, he sold me some in their sale and they were cheaper than anyone else on the internet
Now going back with junior and happy to pay rrp
the price seemed okay
At this point, I would have just bought it. I CBA running my own private dutch auction for everything I buy.
The only time I buy off Amazon is if literally nowhere else has the thing. I’m not their best customer, as you can imagine.
No idea what the RRP is - not sure I’d know how to find that out. And yes I appreciate the convenience of walking out with the item but we didn’t need one there and then (and we are still using her old harness).
It was £37.50 for a small (£24.95 on Amazon).
It was £37.50 for a small (£24.95 on Amazon)
so, not 50% cheaper then.
Doh! No. Me stupid LOL.
So what is a fair mark-up to support local?
No mark up, but paying RRP is what I'd expect.
So what is a fair mark-up to support local?
It's whatever you think is fair. If convenience, free advice, customer service, help choosing the right thing for you and having the thing right there in your hand is important to you, pay what they're asking. If paying their workers a fair wage, supporting a local economy, paying their taxes and growing as a small business is valuable to you, be prepared to pay for it because all that stuff costs a LOT, as well as all the hours, days, months, sweat and tears that have gone into that local retailer just remaining open for you.
I haven't met anyone who has worked for or with Amazon (and I know quite a few) who think they're anything other than a horrible company. Horrible to work for, horrible to supply to, horrible to drive for, horrible to get money out of, horrible to advertise with, horrible to sell with... you get the picture. But they are very very cheap, although increasingly they're filled with awful tacky knock-offs.
So you get what you pay for. You decide what "fair" is.
I'm normally ok paying 10-20% more for in-person convenience/supporting a local business. Sometimes go over that but I have to convince myself.
Personally zero.
The future of local is shops offering experiences rather than selling things you can also buy online.
Our nearest high street has totally transformed over the last 20 years. It used to be standard retail: butcher, baker, candlestick maker etc. There was one grotty cafe (still there) and a couple of take aways.
It's now got about 10 hairdressers / barbers, half a dozen tattoo parlours, loads of cafes, restaurants and take aways. Plus a few Coops and mini Tesco / Sainsburys. Really busy and thriving street, totally adapted to the times and not under any stress from Amazon etc. We even had half a dozen shops open mid lockdown!
standard retail: butcher, baker
You're happy about the butcher and baker closing down? Weird.
On some items I will pay whatever the shop asks ie
Crash Helmet
Wetsuit
Laptop Case/Bag
These are all recent purchases and the try before you buy is worth the premium. I guess I could have saved a few pennies by ordering multiple sizes/styles, but I would then have had the hassle of sending stuff back that was not good enough/right.
Another recent laptop case/bag purchase looked fine online and works OK, but the fabric is cr4p and the zips clash with each other and parts of the bag. I would not have bought it if I had been able to touch/feel/test it first in the shop.
Use it or loose it
You’re happy about the butcher and baker closing down? Weird.
In other areas they are opening
Very popular, supported locally, go figure
Depends.
If it's something I need NOW then local shops win every time, regardless of what they are charging.
Also, as the chap above says, stuff I want to try on, or stuff I need to talk to the shopkeeper about and get some advice, I will pay a bit more for that privilage.
General widgets I'm in no hurry for I'll go online and find the cheapest.
.
Another factor, especially for big stuff, is delivery charges. Floorboards being the current one, can get them cheaper down south but the cost of having them brought up 200 miles on the back of lorry is prohibitive
I struggle with this.
I try to buy from one of our four LBS's.
However, I've ended up buying main bike from online twice in four years. This last year was down to supply issue - local shop I was going to buy from couldn't supply for 5 months, or I could get significantly better spec. bike within the week from online.
I don't mind paying more, I regularly do, but I draw the line on price at times. Shimano disc pads, £24 at one LBS(!) or online for £9...
Things like shoes, it's local every time. Other stuff it does depend. A lot of bike stuff isn't that much more expensive locally than on-line, 10-20% or so. Does depend on the manufacturer and the deals they do with both on-line and bricks&mortar shops.
Then there's how soon I want it - I've paid well over the odds for some things when I've broken them and needed them for the following day or even that evening.
I don't mind paying extra if being there and getting some kind of added value is worth it.
So, I don't get groceries delivered as I prefer to check them out myself beforehand - i don't mind walking to the shop and/or paying extra for this.
Clothes - I hate buying online as they are wrong 50% of the time, so I would pay 50% extra again to get something that fits and will last etc
Stuff that is commoditised like a ream of paper or a pack of screws can't really be beaten by the internet
Was in my LBS few months ago. Unusual as normally look online but with no deals thought best try and buy local.
Looking for some new spd shoes. And something a bit fancier than normal with boa or similar closure.
Nothing in other than usual 510s etc. I’d asked if likely to get in the boa versions.
Owner explaining economics which I’d never really considered. 510 do (say) maybe 4 or 5 different popular models. Youth/ women’s /men’s sizes so conservatively 15 sizes if want cover all bases. Say 5 pair of each. That’s £15-20k trade price and 510 want paid up front. Unless there’s a big event like FT WM DH where he can shift huge numbers he can’t afford that outlay for stuff that may sell slowly over a year (or more likely lots won’t).
Fair point. Some items its just not reasonable to expect LBS to hold stock in which case no guilt over buying online.
You’re happy about the butcher and baker closing down? Weird.
Retail / economies are evolving all the time, some shops / businesses close and new ones open.
We used to have tinkers but they're all gone now and much the better for it as modern stoves and modern cookwear don't need regular repairs! I also see you don't lament the loss of candle stick makers, why isn't that weird?
Personally I'm quite happy buying bread and meat from the local Coop, don't miss butchers and bakers at all. You are, of course, free to disagree.
Guess it depends on whether I want to walk away with it there and then or whether it’s something I can wait for. Even then if the difference isn’t much I’ll generally just buy it as the flip side is I can’t be bothered waiting for a delivery.
Obviously this is so long as it’s not being sold at more than it’s rrp in which case I will look elsewhere be that bricks and mortar or online.
20%, but if they are a dick I walk. Happy to pay more to local shops as long as they don't have a nob shaped rocket in their back yard. It also depends a bit on the amount, for small stuff (say under 30EUR) I really don't care as convenience usually trumps everything. If you value your time at all then spending an hour 'researching' on the web and then buying online is a waste of life. For big stuff it's different but I generally won't think about it until 20% and then I'll start to consider
I pay way over the supermarket prices to a local baker, fishmonger and wine seller. I mean 50% more in some cases simply because I love these people and know just how hard they work to earn a crust from a marginal business
And yes I appreciate the convenience of walking out with the item
I think a lot of people are missing the point when it comes to a lot of stuff, it's the convenience/ ability to try it for size/ feel etc.
Getting info or trying something for size in a shop then buying it elsewhere is a complete dick move ( not saying you did BTW)
Fine, buy shit from amazon if you have no morals, but don't try it on in a real shop first.
what if the local shop is a national ?
been away riding for the weekend. managed to leave my old smelly helmet at a pub on sunday night.
so yesterday i did a search on the net for a new fox speed frame helmet.
most local bike shop to me that had on in stock was Evans. so i went and bought it.
price was of no concern to be honest but it was £89 which is comparable i think.
Fine, buy shit from amazon if you have no morals, but don’t try it on in a real shop first.
Or if buying cheap works because you don’t have much disposable income. Same as shopping at Poundland. I don’t do either just for clarity but the whole moral argument is bollocks. How many people that won’t use Amazon have an iPhone?
I haven’t met anyone who has worked for or with Amazon (and I know quite a few) who think they’re anything other than a horrible company.
I’ve met one. Said they were a really good employer! He worked for us and the longer he was there the more we thought he was a prick! I think the only ex-employee who has never asked me for a reference!
We do not have many shops locally. I am therefore happy to buy most stuff online as I hate wasting my weekends shopping.
We do have a great diy shop who offer advice so I am happy to pay quite a bit more than going to one of the big stores.
If I do go to a shop to try clothing on and I am happy with the item I will buy it, regardless of how much cheaper I can buy it online.
but the whole moral argument is bollocks.
Elaborate please.
For a planned purchase preferred option is to find a decent price from a real bricks and mortar, likely not in my area but on the basis that what goes around. Secondary choice is an established specialist UK online retailer. Third choice is anyone but Amazon whom I only buy iPhone screen protectors from.
I rarely make spontaneous purchases but if I do happy to pay RRP after a cursory check I’m not getting super rinsed.
the thing on amazon may not have been genuine. i’m not saying amazon are pedalling counterfeit goods, but a 3rd party could be.
you can get counterfeits of almost everything. the reason that you dont see to many of them in europe is down to legislation.
If I do go to a shop to try clothing on and I am happy with the item I will buy it, regardless of how much cheaper I can buy it online.
Yeah trying on in a shop but1 then buying online is a real dick move.
the whole moral argument is bollocks.
Just because they aren't your morals doesn't make it bollocks.
How many people that won’t use Amazon have an iPhone?
Ah yes because unless you are perfect in all areas you should never do anything moral - excellent logic.
the thing on amazon may not have been genuine. i’m not saying amazon are pedalling counterfeit goods, but a 3rd party could be.
Loads of fake stuff on amazon including stuff they sell directly apparently.
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/amazon-counterfeit-fake-products/
We had a lady ask us for a reduction or she would buy the £7.99 apron off Amazon. We said no and on checking we were a pound cheaper than them.
Then there’s the people who buy a balloon online and expect it to come with the gas. We’ll blow it up if we have enough gas but must shops will tell them to get lost.
I buy from quite a few independent local shops. I pay more than I need to, per item, but they know me, give me good advice and sell me the right thing. As a result I don't have a lot of unused bargain stuff. So, I've paid more, saved money and kept my local places profitable.
And, referring to the initial post, I commented to a dog walker I thought it was surprising how many dogs were called Julius these days. I got a very detailed answer informing me that it was actually a brand, not his dog's name. Well who knew? 🙁
Lucky to live a short walk from 2 vibrant parades of shops in Bristol - hardware shops, cafes, butchers, bakers, scoop shop for spices, the lot. Mixed in with a brewing shop, bike shops and sainsburys and co-op.
On a saturday its an event going shopping, quite a lovely experience and I see lots of the kids mates and mine.
For everyday stuff it's no more expensive than an online or supermarket shop.
I hate shops. Or I guess what I actually hate is actual shopping. Added to the fact that most shops for me are a good long drive for me I suppose I am the online retailer's wet dream. If I never walk into a physical clothing shop again I'll die a happier man.
Where possible I try to buy from the good guys, regardless of location. The Bird cycles of this world. I've had some brilliant customer service from them over the phone or by email. My old lbs owner was a miserable fekker who knew little about a good customer experience, a pleasant shop interior, smiling or indeed bikes. So he can go swivel, local or otherwise.
How independent is independent? I'll always look at my local Waterstones when buying books, but is my local Waterstones part of a big evil chain? It's majority shareholder is an American investment group.
To answer the OP's question though, maybe an additional 50%?
Yeah trying on in a shop but1 then buying online is a real dick move.
Beat me to it.
I'll pay a modest premium to support local businesses. Milk and orange juice comes in glass bottles from the little independent bakery round the corner, it's convenient and it lets me virtue signal on the Internet. I used to use Modern Milkman until my circumstances changed and regular deliveries were no longer viable, but I suspect that's where theirs comes from.
Outside of convenience tax, my view these days is with bricks-and-mortar shops you're paying for their value-added. You can view products in the flesh; you can try stuff on; you don't have the hassle of sending it back if it's not as expected; you can at least in theory tap into expert advice. You can't take a shirt to the window to see what the blue looks like in direct sunlight when you're buying from Amazon.
A few years ago, I bought new climbing shoes. I went into the shop with a very clear idea of what I wanted. I must've spent somewhere approaching an hour with the sales assistant and tried on like every boot in the shop, eventually settled on something totally different. Knowing what I actually wanted, I could then have gone "right, thanks" and ordered off the Internet, saved myself a few quid, but as Grum said that would be morally bankrupt. They'd earned their premium in the time they'd spent helping me.
Then there’s the people who buy a balloon online and expect it to come with the gas. We’ll blow it up if we have enough gas but must shops will tell them to get lost.
Please tell me you charge them for this service?
the whole moral argument is bollocks.
Just because they aren’t your morals doesn’t make it bollocks.How many people that won’t use Amazon have an iPhone?
Ah yes because unless you are perfect in all areas you should never do anything moral – excellent logic.
Hypocritical then. All large firms have some questionable practices but on here you’d think it’s just Amazon. The world is changing and physical retail needs to change with it. I agree on the clothing thing btw and as stated don’t shop on Amazon for much.
Outside of convenience tax, my view these days is with bricks-and-mortar shops you’re paying for their value-added. You can view products in the flesh; you can try stuff on; you don’t have the hassle of sending it back if it’s not as expected; you can at least in theory tap into expert advice. You can’t take a shirt to the window to see what the blue looks like in direct sunlight when you’re buying from Amazon.
A few years ago, I bought new climbing shoes. I went into the shop with a very clear idea of what I wanted. I must’ve spent somewhere approaching an hour with the sales assistant and tried on like every boot in the shop, eventually settled on something totally different. Knowing what I actually wanted, I could then have gone “right, thanks” and ordered off the Internet, saved myself a few quid, but as Grum said that would be morally bankrupt. They’d earned their premium in the time they’d spent helping me.
Definitely value added. Clothes and as far as I can bikes I like to try for size and fit and I'll pay a premium of 10-20% for the privilege quite happily, but also because I know those guys will hopefully be there when I need a spare at short notice and next day delivery also has a premium.
Hypocritical then
Yeah probably but everyone could be accused of being a hypocrite in some way. Fear of being accused of being a hypocrite probably puts lots of people off doing loads of beneficial stuff.
Amazon get a lot of discussion because they are unbelievably massive.
It'd be great if I had the time to browse my well stocked competitively priced independent lbs
But reality is I am poor, busy and my lbs are not the best
I know it's a viscous circle, but online shopping has changed everything
I like what Freewheel do: a good online presence, good prices and you have to chose an lbs to get a proportion of the sale, as a distributor click and collect is free so it gets you in the door of the lbs too
I run a village shop - everything is at rrp, but price marked packs where available from big brands (cans of coke, coffee etc). Over the last 5yrs or so we've gradually changed the buisness from a luch time convenience shop, back to a traditional village shop that also caters for convenience shoppers. But we have to compete with supermarkets and supermarket delivers, and now quite often get the "it's more expensive than Sainsbury's/Asda/Aldi" line... In which case I think drive the 20mins there and buy it then. Convenience shops are just that - convenient!
Dont even start me on local produce "why are your sausages 3x more than a pkt of Richmond?”....
Food shops work on around a 15-25% gross margin and so once costs come out the buisness is usually left with extremely little for reinvestment.
As for Amazon, living rurally I use them regularly, next day delivery for the odd item I wouldn't be able to pick up for weeks or have to make a special trip for, yes please.....
I try and shop physically where possible. If shopping locally costs a little more then so be it. I'd much rather use it than lose it. Where I live, the high street has undergone a renaissance and is now a nice place to be. There are small quirky shops, restaurants, bars, and pubs. One of these is a specialist drinks shop. They sell stuff not readily available in supermarkets or chain off licences. I could get it on line cheaper but I'd rather trundle up there once a week and select a few for the weekend.
I do some on line shopping where I can't readily get stuff but I do avoid Amazon like the plague. It's a last resort and then usually for small mark up items like cables etc. I may get the occasional text book from there but again, not often.
I don’t use Amazon because I begrudge making the richest bloke on the planet even richer.
If shopping locally costs a little more then so be it.
I don't mind that, but 50% more?
I don’t use Amazon because I begrudge making the richest bloke on the planet even richer.
I don't like to either but when I can get things cheaper, quicker and with better after-sales support* it's hard to ignore.
*I bought a Sage burr grinder from them and it packed in just under two years from new – I got on live chat and asked if I had a case and they just said they would send out a new one. The next day I had a replacement and a freepost label to return the failed unit. I think I would struggle to get that elsewhere (and don't get me started on the shitstorm of hassle I had with John Lewis and their '5 year warranty' with a faulty tv I had.
Did you ask if that was their best price? They might of happily knocked a few quid off and closed the premium.
Did you ask if that was their best price? They might of happily knocked a few quid off and closed the premium.
No - I am English (albeit a Yorkshire-man so perhaps I should) and we don't do that. Do we?
My take on it is, if the price was acceptable to you, why not just buy it and be done with it. There will always be somewhere cheaper , but can you be arsed wasting time and effort looking for it? If were talking about saving a considerable amount, such as a car purchase or similar, then yes, its worth the effort, but would you notice those few quid you would have 'lost out' on at the pet shop? Only you know if the money is that important to you.
Also, I am extremely loathe to contribute to Jeffs next space dildo. After how arrogant he seemed (to me ) whilst being interviewed after his rocket trip, I am loathe to give him any of my cash unless its a needs must situation.
Taking Amazon out of the equation, I have just looked elsewhere (as mentioned previously it was £37.50 in the local shop and £24.95 at Amazon)
At Zooplus (where I normally bulk buy dog food, rabbit straw and hay etc) it is £19.99.
Pets at Home - £28.00
Looks like I'll just wait and get one from Zooplus the next time I place an order.
I wouldn't know if local shops are more expensive as pretty much everything I buy is online.
Gave up with local shops years ago as they never had what I wanted and very seldom knew as much as I did about what I was trying to buy so no benefit. As for paying their staff a decent wage, I didn't ask what they were paid but guessing not much.
If a shop is offering something I can't get elsewhere, i.e. the patisserie I use that is run by a pastry chef from The Dorchester and the bread and cakes are amazing.
Depends what it is and what i am willing to do about it. For clothes, i tend to just nip to sports direct or M&S, or Gloucester Quay, get to try it on and buy it, and usually at similar to online prices.
Amazon i use for a lot of stuff though, hard to find foods from the grocery area, where none of the local supermarkets sell it, same with tools and so on if i have a plan to do something on a weekend, i can order it and know it'll be here to do the job, failing that it's toolstation.
Bike stuff, well clothes i tend to LBS them, easier to make sure, parts i just hunt around, i can't justify paying 100 quid for something i can get for 50 if i search online.
In short though, it's all about ease of life for me, if i can pick something up, it helps in any way in terms of time, effort, etc then i'm happy to pay more, as a family, we do tend to pick up a lot of bespoke stuff locally, and so on, but it really has to be worthwhile in some way, not just paying over and above for the sake of buying local.
not just paying over and above for the sake of buying local.
I tend to agree with this sentiment. Yes, support local businesses (I try to and on holiday in Northumberland last week we deliberately avoided all chains apart from the Co-oP) but it makes no sense to do it just for the sake of it.
I rarely shop in a real shop it all on line the main reason being convenience. I can shop when it suits me, it’s delivered to my door so I don’t have to faff about wasting time going to shops when they are open. I know what size I am in the brands I buy. If I want to try something on then I will buy from the shop as they have provided the service. The thing is there is no reason for independents not to have an online option.
Just paid £70.00 for a Sunrace 11spd 11-46T cassette from a local shop. CRC have it at £69.99.
So I guess my premium is 1p!!!
Ice creams 0%, I can't bring myself to buy them any place other than a supermarket.
Coffee 1500% because it's easier than going home to make one.
Food up to 50% for the convenience of the local shop and the quality of the local baker.
Cars 5%, because that how much more they cost from the dealership than a mandataire. But if ever it goes wrong that was 5% worth paying. And I reckon I get the difference back at trade in.
Guitars 10%, but very often they price match without me asking.
Bikes 0%, the local bike shops are run by miserable ****s.
I would pay 30% max to support local retailers.
To answer the OP I wouldn’t pay any premium to shop locally. Pretty much purchase 99% of things online including food. I value my time above anything else and not having to visit a supermarket or go to a town centre is priceless for me.
Other people may love browsing etc and that’s what makes it great, so many choices nowadays. I don’t need advice from a shop because STW and Google. Not sure what else a physical location can offer me really. Not bothered about touching or feeling stuff.
As a side note this thread is a good example of how affluent a lot of people on here are. The fact that some of you can afford to pay more pretty much shows that. Not a judgement, just an observation.
I'm not driven purely by price and do prefer to support local/independent businesses where possible, especially since the pandemic - my orders to Amazon are virtually nothing these days. (Even without the support-the-independents bit, like others on here I'm increasingly finding the idea of contributing to Bezos's fortune hard to stomach anyway.)
That said, these local businesses aren't charities and the idea that the 'local premium' gets you better service, advice, and convenience often doesn't really stack up - particularly with bike shops IME.
As a side note this thread is a good example of how affluent a lot of people on here are.
Was discussing this the other day on our weekly ride, in our lifetime (50s here) disposable income has gone through the roof. I remember we were burgled in the 70s (parents house). All they took was clothes as there wasn't 'stuff' to steal back then. No digital anything, the few toys we had were with us on holiday. TV weighed half a ton and came from Radio Rentals, no one was taking that anywhere. Whereas we were riding round on multi £k road bikes to go to a random cafe and spend £10 on a coffee and cake. If you'd tried to explain that to our 70s selves it would have been inconceivable.
The fact that some of you can afford to pay more pretty much shows that.
I mean, I'm sure not in all cases but maybe some people buy less stuff in order to pay more.
I have a mate who lives off grid and made his house and most stuff in it and grows loads of his own food etc, but when he buys tools for his workshop he just buys the best then looks after it.
No – I am English (albeit a Yorkshire-man so perhaps I should) and we don’t do that. Do we?
People definitely do, a lot. My family have a shop and customers are always coming in asking for a discount, best price, price match, some kind of deal for buying several things and they often get it depending on product and how much margin there is, some items you have zero chance but other items there is quite a bit of room