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oldgrump, I might be a but if a barsteward matey. But condescending? Mais non.
hmmmm, black * and (man of Nig) * are pretty different IMO but I don't know which he was closer to as I'm not a Spanish speaker
(Speaking as a bloke who played his best footy in the 1980s I've called people lanky / short / ugly / cheating / thick / sheepshagging* / ... - you just say what you see, followed by "****". I definitely called one bloke "yellow" once - wasn't chinese or owt, just had a yellow shirt on and I remember it because it was my shittest ever insult)
When I was "properly" playing I honestly can't remember playing a against ANY black lads but if I had, and I'd been pissed off with him, I'd definitely have called him a black ****
I know it's all in the perception rahter than my (honest guv not racist) intention and I'm also probably a knuckle-dragging colonial throwback tosser, but there you go
(* no direct evidence, but he was from Stokesley)
(* no direct evidence, but he was from Stokesley)
You do know the reference asterix only works when there is only ONE in your post, don't you?
[img] http://www.smileys4me.com/getsmiley.php?show=2140 [/img]
there's only one single "star", amidst a whole load of ****s
TBH, I know how it feels 😉
No f*****g s**t!
Liverpool fayns doing the 'aeroplane' (Munich Disaster), and Man U fayns making callous and despicable references to those who died at Hillsborough. A nastiness has crept in to the previously reasonably amicable rivalry, not helped by Bacon Face who loves to stir things up, let's face it.
Yes if only we could take the balanced approach of you and call the other fans callous and despicable and have a disrespectful name for Liverpools beknighted manager then i think the tolerance and respect you seek between the two fans could just break out . really THE IRONING 😯
Oh teh ironing of that coming from JY. Who cared more about the clubs than the crime.
Shut up Junky. I've said Suarez deserves a ban, I've pointed out the disgusting actions of some Liverpool fayns, but you still have to have a pop?
Bacon Face is called Bacon Face cos he has a face that looks like bacon. Simples. It's a fair nickname.
this him, fred ?
[img] 
[/img]
that's him off radiohead innit ?
No it's not, no.
A ban if he said such.bad shit but has to be consistent with all the other offenders, i dont think it is a lot to ask .....as a footy fan any team in the country would love taggart as the manager. ,fact
another excellent attempt to bring harmony where this is discord 🙄
You called only man u fans of being despicable and callous and used bacon face and accused him of stirring things up- you did not use anything like this language for Liverpool fans or their actions. You are part of the problem here not the solution. I dont mind if you want tribal rivalry over football but it is silly it use language like that whilst espousing peace and tolerance between the teams
I am not doing this again you are exactly what you criticise on almost every footy thread.
Who cared more about the clubs than the crime
Genuinely dont know what you mean DD
You called only man u fans of being despicable and callous and used bacon face and accused him of stirring things up- you did not use anything like this language for Liverpool fans or their actions. You are part of the problem here not the solution.
Now you're just talking crap. What, you think I think anyone doing the 'aeroplane' is anything but despicable and disgusting?
I've pointed out the [b]disgusting[/b] actions of some Liverpool fayns
You might want to try reading propply before trying to stir up crap. Pathetic.
You are part of the problem here not the solution
Oh, and you're doing such a wonderful job of engendering harmony and peaceful relations, yeah, right, of course.... 🙄
Hypocrite.
Good night all!
now if you call them despicable it will be even - yes i am labouring a point now for sure. if you cannot see that you have the anger/banter/disrespect that you dislike then nothing i will say will help
It's a nasty situation this. Of course, the Scum will be delighted, but let's not forget that these are the same fayns and club who supported the thug Roy Keane, who deliberately injured other players, and who called Mick McCarthy an 'English SeeYouNextTuesday'; what a lovely individual he was
Another of your early attempts to bring harmony no doubt.
All i have done is point this out to you.
I have said nothing negative about Liverpool or Suarez only suggesting the way you speak about the issue is unlikely to bring the harmony you seek.
the only think i said about LFC was that they are not racist and i called the manager Kenny. You however used scum and bacon face. I apologise for not helping here forgive me.
Keane should have done time for that tackle and subsequent admission FWIW.
what bike for 'big hitters' to travel to a football match on?
suarez out, rooney in on the fantasy footy...
Getting back to the original point of this thread, I'm afraid the only acceptable punishment would be a lifetime ban, racism is not acceptable in anyway and even if the words used in Spanish do not carry the same meaning as they do in English I'm afraid that is no excuse, it is your own responsibility to live and abide by the laws of the country in which you reside
it is your own responsibility to live and abide by the laws of the country in which you reside
Is speaking engilsh a legal requirement in the UK now? What happens when people travel to Wales, I presume they have to respect Welsh law and speak Welsh, no?
Apart from the fundamental flaw in your argument, a nice troll.
Would not understanding the cultural differences of players coming from different countries be bordering on racism in itself?
I think the ban is fair for the offence and should help educate the player about what is acceptable in the culture he now plays in, losing a key player for 8 games should also focus clubs into helping players understand their responsibilities.
I am not so sure it is fair in terms of punishments normally handed out for such behaviour, I don't know how often the FA hand out such punishments, this case has been fairly high profile. Is it a standard punishment? is it a new line in the sand? The evidence against JT seems stronger, and the actual offence seems much more offensive, if he doesn't get at least the same ban then the FA will have a lot of explaining to do.
Liverpool should receive some sort of contemptible punishment like points-docking for the comments on their website.
Personally, i don't see a lot wrong with the comments of Suarez, i don't differentiate between for example Bellamy calling Barton "you ****ing ****".... which was caught on camera recently, or Suarez calling Evra "you ****ing black ****".... it's all just insults in a football game designed to psychologically throw your opponent off his game. Similar to the great Zidane incident where his sister was called a whore by an opposing player, which then saw Zidane being sent off for a ridiculous head-butt. It's all part of the game and the sport.
However, i doubt the FA would accept my defence above as particularly valid
It's all part of the game and the sport.
Perhaps, in the name of gamesmanship and gentlemanly conduct, it shouldn't be.
[i]You can't expect that level of insight, though, from a [s]club[/s] city with a chip on its shoulder the size of a small planet.[/i]
FTFY
Ageee to an extent yes... but that's like saying in Rugby they should batter the crap out of eachother in the scrum, or in cricket you shouldn't try the odd 'bodyline' bowl ...... of course in the ideal world, none of this is the case... but we live in a world where competition is rife, sport is a matter of life and death (Ask Andres Escobar about that one) and it really DOES matter if you win or lose... None of this "it's the taking part that really counts"..
We as English and as society as a whole stopped with the 'gentlemanly conduct' about 40 years ago.... it's moved on... the world changes... people are not as nice as they were back in the 1940's when we all wore bowler hats 🙂
You can't expect that level of insight, though, from a club city with a chip on its shoulder the size of a small planet.FTFY
Here we go... another wonderfully insightful post... .what a level of irony... you claim that Scousers don't have any insight.. but bring absolutely nothing to the discussion apart from a veiled insult...
Apart from the fundamental flaw in your argument, a nice troll
Not a troll and no fundamental flaw, it is not English law to speak English, it is not Welsh law to speak Welsh, it is however English law to not use racist language, sorry your argument was flawed by a lack of knowledge of the laws of the country the offence took place in so I stand by what I said
it is however English law to not use racist language
The word for black is negro in Spanish! Check the negrito comment above...
IMO his excuse is not credible.
He has been hear for years and must be aware the language he used is unnaccceptable. I simply do not believe his excuse.
He has been hear for years and must be aware the language he used is unnaccceptable. I simply do not believe his excuse.
And in one fell swoop the most educated and enlightened member dismisses whole languages and culture. I am British and when enraged swear in Spanish.
Your comments are not only spelled incorrectly but also irrelevant, you clearly don't know what you're talking about you're a fool.
He has been hear for years and must be aware the language he used is unnaccceptable. I simply do not believe his excuse.
Who's been here for years ? lol maddness.
I thought that when deciding if word which could be considered offensive actually is, is in the context and intent.
i.e; Calling someone you know a "negrito" if socialising [i]could[/i] be a term of affection. Calling someone a "negrito" when abusing each other during sport is racist (IMHO). It's fair to assume he didn't intend it to be taken as a term of endearment.
When calling someone which translates as this;
The term "Negrito" is the Spanish diminutive of negro, i.e. "little black person", referring to their small stature, and was coined by early European explorers.[3]Occasionally, some Negritos are referred to as pygmies, bundling them with peoples of similar physical stature in Central Africa, and likewise, the term Negrito was previously occasionally used to refer to African Pygmies.[4]
He has used the colour of someones skin as a descriptor in an insult and as such is racist.
What happens when people travel to Wales, I presume they have to respect Welsh law and speak Welsh, no?
With respect DS, you could have chosen a better comparison. More welsh people speak english than welsh, and of course you have to obey the law of the land. It's the law!
Don't disagree with this weeksy, but there's no privacy on a premiership football pitch - it's not like two boxers whispering insults into one another's ears in a clinch. That particular game is, I believe, watched by 500 million people around the world. So if you start dishing racially aggravated insults out and get caught doing it - expect a harsh judgement.Personally, i don't see a lot wrong with the comments of Suarez, i don't differentiate between for example Bellamy calling Barton "you * *".... which was caught on camera recently, or Suarez calling Evra "you * black *".... it's all just insults in a football game designed to psychologically throw your opponent off his game. Similar to the great Zidane incident where his sister was called a whore by an opposing player, which then saw Zidane being sent off for a ridiculous head-butt. It's all part of the game and the sport.
People of Manchester, Liverpool and beyond....
Can we gather together as one body and agree on one thing? That TJ doesn't know what he's talking about and is, quite possibly, a fool.
[i]Here we go... another wonderfully insightful post... .what a level of irony... you claim that Scousers don't have any insight.. but bring absolutely nothing to the discussion apart from a veiled insult...[/i]
Fair enough, I apologise for what was a glib comment. However, I haven't claimed anything about the Scousers' levels of insight, but they do have a reputation for a victim mentality, both individually and collectively. I have to say that from personal experience, it is at least partly deserved. It's applicable here because this is another example of a verdict that will fuel the feeling that there is somehow a conspiracy against Liverpool.
In terms of this discussion, If the FA want to be seen as taking the issue of racism seriously, a big ban was always coming. They've not exactly rushed the decision and will be fully aware of it's impact. Ignoring the linguistic ins and outs, he said something that is deemed unacceptable to the FA, and must suffer the consequences.
Personally I'd like to see harsher penalties for 'ungentlemanly conduct' full stop. The "it's part of the game" argument is nonsense. It shouldn't be part of the game, it isn't (to the same extent) in any other sport that I can think of.
With respect DS, you could have chosen a better comparison. More welsh people speak english than welsh, and of course you have to obey the law of the land. It's the law!
Where's the law that states you have to speak the language of the land you reside as I understood the poster to be alluding to.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16262537.stm ]These words are not easy - perhaps almost impossible - to translate into a contemporary English context. How do you judge the weight of a word uttered in a foreign language from a different mindset?[/url]
Worth a quick read.
Fair enough, I apologise for what was a glib comment
Thanks fella.
As for the victim mentality, i don't really understand that myself. If you haven't already gathered, i am of course a Scouser, born and bred in Anfield less than 150m from the ground. I have attended over 200 matches at Anfield so feel i have a bit of a 'right' to comment on football threads.
But, i'm digressing... I know it comes up a lot about Liverpools victim mentality, but IMO it's really nothing of the sort (apart from in the minotity) what it actually is, is a form of closeness and family mentality within Liverpool as a city and an overall community. Now, considering some of the violence, crime etc in Liverpool, that may suprise some people... but again i see the crime as a minority of the overall community.
I guess the victim mentality is still due in a large context for the campaign for the Justice for the 96 people killed. Once again, i'm not seeing this as 'victim mentality' but as a sense and a desire for someone to be seen to be accountable for this horrific day. The fans of Liverpool were not to blame... (in my opinion of course), therefore SOMEONE else must be...
Going over to the other points about the Heysel disaster, i don't believe Liverpool people are claiming the victim card.
Finally... Whilst i don't agree with the punishment or even the crime that Suarez is now apparently guilty of, if you take into account that he has been found guilty, then the punishment is fairly appropriate for the offence.. The only thing i ask.. is that John Terry is given an equally harsh/appropriate pentalty in the near future.
As we all know, TJ is an ardent European, and was probably referring to Suarez having played in the Netherlands since he was a teenager. He's not fresh off the boat from S America.People of Manchester, Liverpool and beyond....
Can we gather together as one body and agree on one thing? That TJ doesn't know what he's talking about and is, quite possibly, a fool.
[i]The only thing i ask.. is that John Terry is given an equally harsh/appropriate pentalty in the near future. [/i]
We'll agree on that, [b]if[/b] he's found guilty, and that's an equally tricky one.
Ta Garry - thats exactly the point made in the papers I read about this - he must have known its unnaccceptable in europe to use the phrase in the way he did. If he did not know then he should have done
Where's the law that states you have to speak the language of the land you reside as I understood the poster to be alluding to
I wasn't alluding to that, sorry if it came across that way, my post was intended as you having to abide by the laws of the land in which your actions are taken irrelevant of the level of acceptability of these actions in another country
I still don't understand which is the law that prevents you from speaking Spanish.
¿Donde esta Pepe?
Al lado del negro...
Racist or Spanish?
No law preventing you speaking Spanish, the law relates to using the Spanish word for black in reference to Mr Evra, if Mr Suarez had refrained from using Negrito in his statement there would have been no racist connotation, using Negrito in the statement is making a reference to Mr Evra's race, creed or colour and therefore it becomes racist according to the laws of the United Kingdom.
By simply using the word negro (it means black), by your definition I'm being racist and therefore being discriminated against simply because of vocabulary.
Religious swearing in the UK is seen as acceptable yet in Spain it is the worst form of bad language. Could you imagine the outcry if Beckham had been given an 8 week ban for saying "Christ! What a miss!!!"
Yet I would be pulled up in the UK for the repeated usage of "coño" simply because it would be misinterpreted and mistranslated.
I can't believe how narrow minded some people can be.