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@loum, one of those clueless moments which make the coaches cringe, if he dives for the line/base of the post he scores.
Yup,touch the post up to a metre from the ground and it is a try.
And England would have won the 6 nations 😥
other game[b]s[/b]
I only saw a trip in the last game, please enlighten us on this apparent blight on Haskells character...
I reckon there must be at least 10 moments in the tournament that could so easily have gone the other way for every team. In many ways, it may do England more good as a young team to feel the pain.
Could worse Henson once got pinged for thinking about yripping someone and not doing it! 2005 grand slam game v ireland I think.
@loum, one of those clueless moments which make the coaches cringe, if he dives for the line/base of the post he scores.
I'm not one to defend English players but I think he is too far out to dive, then it is the initial part of the tackle that takes him towards the post as he is spun and wrapped. I can't see him doing anymore than he did TBH. Credit has to go the defenders.
I know others will disagree but for me the 10 of the tournament is Biggar, good in the air and defence, solid kicking and shows leadership and a really cool head under pressure. Doing the basics well and making the right calls under pressure is what wins big games. He scored a nice try also.
people (including apparent england "fans") have very short memories. Brown was the best FB in the 6N last year by some distance
Was he? He's an average player who had one very good season - where people kicked long to him and he ran loads of balls back, creating good stats.
He'd rank 4th in Lions selection behind Kearney, 1/2p and Hogg.
Add the fact that he's too slow to be an international fullback, doesn't score enough tries and can't draw a man and give a pass as in Wales v England 2012 (last minute).
Finally, he's a total dickhead.
I thought Spedding had a great game against England
Bloodandmud.com disagree with you:
Scott Spedding - There are members of native amerindian tribes deep in the rainforests of the South American continent who live a rudimental hunter-gatherer life, untouched by civilisation and unadorned by modernity, who have no anthropological concept of sport and who would make better international fullbacks than this bloke.
He kicked well, and carried well against us. I haven't seen him previously.
dantsw13 - MemberAnd England would have won the 6 nations
Posted 1 hour ago #Report-Post
Likewise Sexton may have torn his knob off in a bizarre sex game with DD the night before they played you. It's all speculation and "what if?" The best team to thrash us won it IMO.
And if you read my post under the one you quoted, you might find I broadly agree with that sentiment.
Let's be honest, there is nothing between the 3. Over 5 games, a10PD spread and equal points is nothing. The crux is which team thinks they gave the furthest to improve on their performances before the WC.
Ireland have a new, and growing centre pair, and are adding potency to their solid game.
England are gaining experience and exposure for a young team - the WC may well come a year to early.
Wales, if they sort their front row, just need to believe they can beat Australia.
It is nicely set up, IMHO.
One trip is bad enough, I am pretty sure he gave away his usual number of penalties but may of been pushed in this by Cole who seemed spectacularly braindead at times 😆 please review all the games and tell me I am wrong Kryton 😉
Just had my vaguely heated debate with my nemesis in work, I just said Lawes was a lucky boy to be met with a tirade of it was the best tackle ever, the ref said it was alright so whats the problem, he then went on a rant about foot being out of play and incorrect touching down of the ball, I pointed out to him the ref said it was ok he then called me a very rude word and went back to his desk 😆
😆 at Pigface.
As Dragon says up there ^^ I don't think Biggar has done himself any harm at all this 6N. Got on with his job with no fuss. Kicked out of hand well, except for 40 minutes v Eng. Immense under the high ball, and stepped up and slotted the kicks when needed.
Wales have certainly won the Gary Owen trophy this 6N.
Who's Gary Owen? 😀
On Haskell - tripping is an embarassment to the team, for that reason alone I think he should be completely dropped! One good half against Wales, then a pretty average 6N culminating in that trip. Tosser.
Namastebuzz, you forgot to mention that Brown can't tackle either
Really? Can't think of many tackles Brown misses?
Pigface - is he talking about the French foot over the DB line? Maybe also mention to him on slowmo it appears Vunipola dropped the ball for his try!!
Also, if Wood had been fit, he would have played instead of Haskell, and come WC, he will be in the team. Haskell would make a great impact sub though - can play 6 & 8.
That is Morgans role coming on as a big impact sub, but I dont think he is going to make it.
Brown is too slow and lacks the one on one, last man tackling of a top international FB. Put the other way, when can you remember watching him making a great try saving tackle? One on one you'd always fancy a half decent back to score. Kearney is physical enough to do well, Hogg fast enough with great technique and timing and 1/2p is mental enough to be solid. I am biased though as I fondly remember his attempts to tackle Cuthburt.
The Garryowen (to give it it's proper name) is the Irish term for the up and under. A bomb of a high ball, chase hard and compete for it.
Wales did it well this 6N, Biggar and 1/2p especially.
Kearney is ponderous and doesnt tackle well, no idea why anyone would rate him.
Full Back running order (excuse the pun)
1 - Hogg
2 - 1/2
3 - Spedding
4 - Kearney
5 - Brown
6 - McLean
Anyone listening to the 5 live rugby show? Matt Dawson is a total piece...how did he get that job?
Not sure what Hogg has done to be so highly thought of. Brown is certainly above Kearney.
1/2p and Brown are on a similar level imo. Different strengths and weaknesses.
Really??
Kearney has been a class act for years - and still is. Just because Ireland never pass it out we don't see him much in attack.
Most other 6N teams would stick 1/2p at fullback if they had him. He was good on the wing and he takes those skills to fullback along with his faultless kicking.
Hogg is a brilliant attacking player and his defence helped stem the white tide at Twickenham.
Foden is England's best fullback, by miles, but in SL's masterplan he ranks behind Brown and Goode even when fit. I'd like to have seen Watson get a run at fullback because he doesn't look so much at home on the wing.
Kearney couldnt tackle a kebab.
[url= http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12504/9774305/rfu-chief-ian-ritchie-says-second-place-not-acceptable-for-england ]Oh Dear...[/url]
Yes, a ridiculously arrogant statement.
Yes, a ridiculously arrogant statement.
Agreed.
In one sense he's correct, England should dominate the home nations in competition wins and be more competitive globally. I just did a quick look at registered players from the home nations:
Wales = 79,000
Scotland = 38,000
Ireland = 153,000
England = 2.5 million.
England have 9 x the players to pick from. They should be able to coach the elite players into a winning team though.
Still arrogant.
Those statistics are slightly misleading as the huge difference is accounted for by juniors - both boys and girls. Senior male registered players are 131,000 compared to 124,000 in France, 25,000 in Ireland, 22,000 in Wales and 11,000 in Scotland. Still a significant advantage though.
Kryton57 - Member
Yes, a ridiculously arrogant statement.
Agreed.
It's not arrogant at all imo, it's realistic. If Wales had the resources, both in terms of numbers and money, that England have then I'd expect them to win almost every 6N. Especially when comparing it to the current resources of their rivals.
Wales punch well above their weight, in resource terms, England and France well below, in recent times anyway.
I seem to remember having this discussion on STW a while ago, and pointing out that England has more registered referees than most of the home nations had registered players.
Of course, there's a lot more to sport than money or player numbers although the Euro Cup is dominated by rich teams. When international rugby goes the same way that's when I give up watching it. 😥
Those stats are BS, Scotland has 11,300 and something senior players. In my rugby area which extends from Fife to Orkney,there are 14 u18 sides,so I don't know where they find another 27,000 players. I am in an 800 pupil school and can't raise anything more than a token side to send to 7's comps at u15 or u18. Rugby here is dead,has been for years.
It is a stupid thing to say but how do the players and Lancaster feel about it. Are they underachieving? maybe the players are just not world class. It is getting more like soccer, press build them up to be world beaters, they lose press crucify them. It is just as bad in Wales but on a smaller scale. If I was an english player or coach I would be pissed off that some suit had just said we werent trying hard enough.
I find it hard to believe that a lot of the players who played on Saturday will be turning out for their clubs this coming weekend. A schedule like that doesn't benefit the national squad at all. Benefits the clubs though, can the fall in French national rugby be mirrored with the dominance of the club game in France?
England have the most money, the most resources and the biggest pool of players, by far.
People can argue that sheer numbers alone don't ensure decent talent but England have won the last two U20 World Cups so something's going right.
Historically the "blazers" have buggered it all up but, even in the professional era, the RFU lost control of the game to the clubs.
Like France, the problem is sorting through the huge number of players in a highly competitive club environment and finding a coach capable of selecting the right ones and melding them together into a cohesive side with a clear idea of how to play.
Since SCW, England have failed to appoint a coach capable of doing this. I don't think France ever have - despite Grand Slams and 3 RWC finals.
It's surely no coincidence the fact that neither Union has ever employed an overseas coach and neither team has come close to its potential of late.
The fall in French rugby is all about the number of imports and the fact the majority of clubs are vanity projects for very wealthy men. See France's inability to grow a number 10 and the names Wilkinson,Sexton,Carter and dunno how many else as an example. There was a recent article in the London Times showing how this permeates even down to the academy level.
True Duckman but even before that, the French have never made use of their huge pool of talent.
Interesting what you were saying about the dearth of rugby in the North of Scotland. I drive past the Mackie FP training in Stonehaven on a regular basis and there are always tons of kids of all age groups out there.
Like France, the problem is sorting through the huge number of players in a highly competitive club environment and finding a coach capable of selecting the right ones and melding them together into a cohesive side with a clear idea of how to play.
Can't disagree that the coaching element has to be one of the biggest factors in the resources-success ratio of late. Not necessarily just those at the top (although Lancaster makes some odd decisions at times) but all the way down to the culture of play at younger ages. We always harp on about NZ and how they coach their youngsters but the truth is they have some really sensible ideas that we could do with learning from!
I don't think Lancaster is qualified for the job.
The RFU should have pushed the boat out and made Graham Henry an offer he couldn't refuse. He could have hidden his reticence about coaching against the ABs behind large bundles of cash.
Mackie are just up the road from me,they have huge numbers at primary level,but struggle to put out u15 and 18 sides,endemic of the majority of clubs up here. Their pitches are nice but the whole operation is based on a couple of portacabins,which are bogging. None of the schools have teams,Mackie, Portlethen or Mearns, so by the time the pupils are 12 they are doing other things at the weekend.
The senior side is also always at the wrong end of the local league and relegation this year will go really badly for them.Aberdeen is on of the few areas where there is actually a thriving club scene with Grammer in div 2 and the Shire in 3. However they do this at the expense of clubs like Mackie and Ellon. In the old days big clubs had lots of players to fill their 2xv so tended only to poach the exceptional players from smaller clubs. Now they can't put out a 2xv without stealing players from smaller clubs,with the effect that the smaller clubs struggle to put out a side and overall standards decline lower down.
I think Graham Henry is a God but plenty in Wales will disagree. With out his input I think Welsh rugby would be in a worse place that Scotland way way worse place.
I am very glad he hasn't gone to england 😆 was he ever offered a job by the rfu?
- This is very true, bizarrely just like England Ireland have tons of full backs playing elsewhere or not in the team. Zebo, Keith Earls, Henshaw and Payne have all played lots of rugby at 15. I would prefer to see Payne there than centre where apart from the Scotland game he was very average.Kearney is ponderous and doesnt tackle well, no idea why anyone would rate him.
Hogg
1/2p
Joseph
Henshaw
North
Sexton
Murray
Healy
Cronin
Cole
Laws
OConnell
Sean O Brian
Vunipola
Warburton
Pigface - MemberI think Graham Henry is a God but plenty in Wales will disagree.
I can sell you a signed copy of his autobiography. Only read once! 😀
I sort of agree with you - he did some of the groundwork. Scotland at the moment remind me of Wales pre-Henry. Some good players, some good coaching, always promising to be better than they really are. They need a good Henrying.
Thanks Duckman.
Very illuminating and also very depressing.
Did Henry do that much? He bpught some success by bringing the likes of Howarth, Sinkinson etc and did a good coaching job but I think it was Hansen who laid the foundations for success from 2004/05 onwards.
El Vino
Lawes in place of AWG? Big call!
It was Henry who got the whole region thing started, he told the WRU it had to change. It went a bit wrong at the end granted.
Whats happened to Eli Walker?
On the subject of locks... what locks do England have of the ugly, grunty variety? I guess that Attwood and Kruis are along those lines but a bit green compared to AWJ/ POC/ the established SH guys???
anagallis_arvensis - Member
Did Henry do that much? He bpught some success by bringing the likes of Howarth, Sinkinson etc and did a good coaching job but I think it was Hansen who laid the foundations for success from 2004/05 onwards.
I'd argue that Hansen did more damage than good. The team that almost beat the ABs and England in 2003 WC played completely differently from the way they'd been coached iirc.
Maybe, maybe not. He did insist on fitness and professionalism though.
In other news Adam is off to Quims. Decent cover during the sorld cup I suppose. Not much use otherwise.
Mallinder should have the englnd job with Baxter and greenwood on the coaching team.
Graham Henry can go ****, I'd sooner have Lancaster.
Graham Henry can go ****, I'd sooner have Lancaster
You'd rather have mid table mediocrity than win the big prizes?
The point is, like it or not, the Kiwis have played the best rugby for most of the last 20 years so it would make sense to employ a Kiwi coach. We have lost the last 4 6N to sides with smaller player pools and poorer resources who've had better coaching setups - run by NZ coaches.
Daily Flail reporting Talupe Faletau to Bath after world cup.
You'd rather have mid table mediocrity than win the big prizes?
You honestly think Henry could do any better????? Did he lead Wales to RWC victories? Did he win a Lions tour? What makes you think he could do any better with England?
We have lost the last 4 6N to sides with smaller player pools and poorer resources who've had better coaching setups - run by NZ coaches.
How's that working out for Mr Cotter?
I'm far from convinced by the current coaching set up, particularly Mr Farrell but parachuting in Henry in the hope that he turns England into the ABs is naive. We have plenty of coaching talent here in England and we should use it.
No he led NZ to a World Cup at home where the pressure was huge.You honestly think Henry could do any better????? Did he lead Wales to RWC victories?
Woodward won a world cup and look what he did to the Lions, nearly destroyed it with his unfettered idiocy.
"Four years as runners-up is not acceptable and we are not happy with how that came about," Ritchie said."If you go back through history, bearing in mind a lot of things, we should be, as a country, winning more in terms of Grand Slams, Six Nations championships, other things."
IMO, England could do with getting rid of a crap chief executive rather than focusing on the coach or players.
He seems to think he's got a right to criticize those below him as if he's not part of the problem.
Got a lot more respect for a man like Lancaster who stands with his team.
Sword and fall time for that other idiot, if it's truly "not acceptable".
No he led NZ to a World Cup at home where the pressure was huge.
England are not the all blacks!!!
Until the approach to coaching grass roots and the culture around youth rugby is changed, we never will be.
If we want to take something from NZ, it should be to copy how they do it. Not just put their old coach in charge of the national team, on the basis that he has managed to win a home world cup with the best players on the planet.
You should never have let Wayne Smith leave England. Especially as he now coaches part of the team you will ultimately have to beat to win the WC.
we want to take something from NZ, it should be to copy how they do it. Not just put their old coach in charge of the national team, on the basis that he has managed to win a home world cup with the best players on the planet.
You should check who was outside half in the final.
He seems to think he's got a right to criticize those below him
Well he is the Chief Executive isn't he?
If he won't criticise SL then who will? All we get from SL is media speak about how England are "going in the right direction".
From where I'm looking we've gone from 2nd to 2nd to 2nd to 2nd.
I wasn't advocating parachuting Henry in now save things. When the RFU were looking for a coach if they'd gone after Henry he'd have brought other people too - like Wayne Smith. In fact, Nick Mallet would have brought Smith with him as well.
So a CEO speaks CEO-Speak - so what?
Resources, resources.....so what?
Other teams have better players - NZ, SA and Ireland
Others have better coaches - insert quite a few
You can only do the best with what you have and England are neither world beaters nor even NH beaters. They are one of a groups of good NH nations - England, Ireland, Wales, France, Italy, Georgia - as recent history shows.
But I guess like wendy we will have to go through the game of thinking that being foreign = being better when it comes to coaches.
THM in trolling shocker;IRB rankings; Georgia 14,Italy 15 and Scotland 10. As you say; "the truth is out there" Still bitter that you couldn't finish against the "sweaties?" as you are fond of calling us.
But I guess like wendy we will have to go through the game of thinking that being foreign = being better when it comes to coaches.
That seems to apply right through the game, though. NZ, Aus and SA MUST be good simply because they are so far away. All Black players are always fantastic world beaters despite the fact they throw up dross like Colin Slade or Steve Donald on a regular basis. Every foreign coach must be better than the home grown ones because they were involved in exotic teams like the Crusaders or the Waratahs, not Bedford or Dunvant. Every time a half-decent player leaves Wales to play abroad he suddenly becomes fantastically good, possibly because nobody ever sees coverage of his mistakes again.
(There maybe some tongue-in-cheek in this post!)
Steven Donald gave up after the world cup,in fact he was fishing and drinking during the W/C when he got the call up. I would rate both him and Slade as easily good enough for any of the home nations. He was certainly better than Flood of Goode. Slade has had to be compared with probably the greatest 10 since those Welsh guys that played in black and white.
He was certainly better than Flood of Goode
Sooo transparent. Couldn't find a crap scottish FH (there have been enough!) to choose instead of the English ones?
Oh FFS settle down, what is going on with you two?
Err...Because Donald played in Bath,my mind was on England as I typed that,I did mention that either would have played for any of the home nations.But go on,what am I transparently trying to say?
Any chance to swipe at the english eh duckers? 😉
Nope, show me any other quote where I take a dig at the English,the above was certainly not intentional,despite what you see in it. I am quite careful not to as that would suggest that my countries house is in order. Would it make you feel better and restore your sense of superiority if I tell you he was also better than Dan Parks,our choice of no 10 at the time?
OK, you may not have been taking a swipe at the English, but you were certainly talking balls!
Donald? My gran was better than Donald (after she died)
Would it make you feel better and restore your sense of superiority if I tell you he was also better than Dan Parks,our choice of no 10 at the time?
I didn't realise you did stand-up as well as referee? 😆
The good thing about Parks was that he played for Cardiff for a while,so at least we didn't have to pay for him too often.
And I would suggest that Donald cgas by the time he was at bath, when he was at Waikato he was brilliant.
[url= http://www.bloodandmud.com/ ]bloodandmud.com[/url] have put up their GOOD and SHIT teams of the tournament.
The two 10s are Dan Biggar and Kelly Haimona respectively.
10. Dan Biggar - Most other tournament teams are split between George Ford and Jonny Sexton, but both of them had a SHIT showing; Ford in Dublin, Sexton in Cardif. Dan Biggar on the other hand was pretty much outstanding in every match, even putting in a decent showing against the England onslaught in the second half on the opening weekend after having his face caved in.
10. Kelly Haimona - The "will he do?" selection policy of the Italians has excelled itself this year by finding a bloke with a kicking boot like a toblerone, passing like a civil war cannon being fired backwards and the game management of sugared up toddler.
Would it make you feel better and restore your sense of superiority if I tell you he was also better than Dan Parks,our choice of no 10 at the time?
Yeh. Ta.
Glad to hear it. 🙂
Ulster v Cardiff, 6 minutes in, Nick Williams joins a maul and 'accidentally' leads with elbow, making no attempt to use his arms or maul legally. Result - Rhys Patchell is stretchered off, Cardiff lose their first choice full back for at least this game, probably more, Williams gets a yellow.
The ref (Mitrea) and TMO actually debated whether it deserved a yellow or just a penalty. The commentators - albeit Welsh - all agree it was an obvious red.
This sport is ludicrous at times.
It may be relevant the the TMO is Irish.
Hasn't Williams got a little form? Shingler, wasn't it?
I just tuned in as Williams returned so haven't seen it yet. I'm watching on Bbc NI so will be interesting to hear what they say at half time
It may be relevant the the TMO is Irish.
Very much more than likely it isn't.