Look; is he a wrong un' or not? could we reach a consensus please. I am off on holiday on Sunday and need new Sunnies, as happens local shop,cycleworld, has livestrong Jawbones going cheap. Don't want to buy them if it means customs are going to tar me with the same brush and rubber glove.
What I hate is the duplicity and hypocrisy about it all, the trial by media.
Whether Armstrong doped or not is almost immaterial, it's actually become a bit of a distraction to the main show of "lets destroy Armstrong by any means possible".
No-one else has been subjected to the same witch-hunt. Known dopers, people who've tested positive and/or confessed are quietly left to get on with their lives. OK, you can argue that Armstrong is a bit more public with his LiveStrong stuff and a lot richer thanks to that and to his years as the highest profile cyclist in the world - was that all built on a lie? The investigation seemed to suggest otherwise when it was dropped but then of course you've got the conspiracy theorists saying it was dropped due to high level political interference.
I don't think the full truth is ever going to be known and it's become a real mess of accusation, counter claim and conspiracy from all sides. 🙁
I can't believe everyone's going on about lance!
You should be more pissed of that the USDA did this right as the tour started. I can't believe so many of you are not more pissed about that.
He may be guilty he may not. But why now?
Don't argue about something none of you know nothing about other than stuff you've read. Don't be so niev.
binners - Member
Do you never get bored with this?
No they never get bored as it fills the gaps between winning their own bike races.
Don't argue about something none of you know nothing about other than stuff you've read. Don't be so niev.
quote of the day. possibly the week.
No-one else has been subjected to the same witch-hunt. Known dopers, people who've tested positive and/or confessed are quietly left to get on with their lives.
Your wakeboard may be on the wrong way round, but this is most lucid.
You should be more pissed of that the USDA did this right as the tour started. I can't believe so many of you are not more pissed about that.
Oh that's standard practice! USADA know full well that if they'd have done this back in January, everyone who did actually notice would have gone "oh that, again?!" and then forgotten about it. It's Chapter 1 in "how to accuse someone of doping" - wait til the week preceding the Tour.
By doing it this way, they're guaranteed the publicity: you can leave a bored journalist with just enough info to go searching and it can be threaded into most Tour stories somehow and you end up with the media doing your work for you.
Much like the 45-minute claim over Iraq. One line is a made-up dossier seized on by the media, next thing the entire world thinks that Saddam can nuke the world in 45 minutes. Trial by media.
What I hate is the duplicity and hypocrisy about it all, the trial by media.
If you choose to live your life in the media, it can come back to haunt you. Ullrich just walked away and kept quiet but his case went through this year and bizarrely he got a heavier sentence than Contador because his ban wasn't back dated whereas AC's was.
Maybe they want maximum publicity to prove that the system is bigger than anyone? Whatever happens if you go after him it will always be a big story.
next thing the entire world thinks that Saddam can nuke the world in 45 minutes.
Isn't this just a little bit more important than yet another LA story? I mean what are we actually doing to protect ourselves? Surely the Govt should be providing some kind of shelters or something. I'm old enough to remember the films and publicity in the 70s. They're barking on about Barclays when they should be protecting us. Typical politicians...
what will some of the experts on "lance is guilty" actually do with their lives once he is/if found guilty.
try looking at the system rather than pinning it all on one guy. lets get it changed so cheating in such a systematic way can't happen again.
No-one else has been subjected to the same witch-hunt. Known dopers, people who've tested positive and/or confessed are quietly left to get on with their lives.
Wanting LA to be found guilty is not a huge issue in my life but as others note the fact he has chosen to live his life and use his achievements to generate publicity for him and/or livestrong means he will get much more attention than others. he has done this by [ possibly] misleading everyone that he did it clean when in fact he did not - is this not important when he continues to live off this legacy?
There is also the feeling that he is the one who got away - many of those found guilty also never tested positive - LA actually has at least once and probably more often. Look how hard it was to get Bertie done for example so lets call it progress as it was still quicker than getting LA.
pay attention at the back.
(at MT)
Did anyone notice he also WORE A HELMET!! idiot
(just trying to keep the interest going)
Does anyone think Emily Batty might dope?
Would anyone care?
Realman - do you think pictures would help with an answer to that?
I can't see how they could hurt.
more reading, better than an insight from Hora.
[url= http://fraudbytes.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/lance-armstrong-investigation-what-do.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed:+Fraudbytes+%28FraudBytes%29 ]http://fraudbytes.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/lance-armstrong-investigation-what-do.html?[/url]
more reading, better than an insight from Hora.
TBH, has hora offered any insight into the case apart from innocent until proven guilty?
And judging by the title "Lance Armstrong investigation: What do his reactions [b]suggest[/b]? I don't think any new FACTS in the case are about to be revealed.
What a sport road racing shows itself to be to outsiders. What a cheerleader it is with such protagonists.
I remember stopping road riding at 17 hating club politics. Now its not 'about the bike' but about denigrating the sports highest achievers at every turn.
If Lance wasnt so abrasive in his defence/in general would he have attracted the accusations?
[img] 
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I was going to post, but I'm to drunk 😀
go on then, the problem I have is he's so quick to try and discredit witnesses, authorities etc etc. There's no discussion. it's "they are all liars" first the cyclists who spoke up, and now that his friends have, he tries to discredit the way the USADA got their info ( the 6 month ban looks to be untrue, possibly from Bruneel, a regular contributor to the paper).
As that article says, where's the disbelief and hurt that his best friends have lied about him? there's none, which to me is very strange indeed. just more attempts to discredit the information they have. The longer this goes on, the more he is looking guilty, and desperately looking for a way out IMO...
Now its not 'about the bike' but about denigrating the sports highest achievers at every turn.
And thats bollocks. Cavendish, Wiggins, Boonen, Gilbert, Cancellara, where are the stories about these high achievers? nowhere, because there's nothing to see.
If Lance wasnt so abrasive in his defence/in general would he have attracted the accusations?
If he had not cdoped and built and entire reputation around the falsehood then no he would be ignored like other great cheating champions.
What is hard to get, its not that he is abrasive, its not that I dont like him, its not that he is not awesome. The problem is , that to some, he cheated. He has then built a temple to all things LA on a lie - he did it all with will power and with a little yellow band you can achieve great things just like he did on a bike and with nothing else. To those who are not road cyclists, like Hora, they view him as some sort of super human demi god who can do no wrong. He built the pedestal that hora and RM look up to on this image and those that purport to know may wish to see him knocked off it.
If he does get found guilty, then of the five riders to win the tour five times (ie arguably the greatest ever), there would be what, one left who hasn't been shown to dope at some point? Positive if people are eventually caught, but pretty sad for cycling in general, especially as most of them are still idolised despite the drugs.
it's not sad for cycling, hopefully it will prove that manipulative egotistical cheaters can no longer use their money and fame to coerce those who run the sport into thinking that it's better to maintain the charade for the good of the sport.
cycling needs dopers like Millar to set an example, it doesn't need dopers like armstrong. every time i hear of some 30+ rider failing a test it doesn't sadden me, i just think that's another one caught, a young rider getting caught is a different matter it's for their and cycling sake that armstrong needs to stop being a false idol and become a pariah.
i just think that's another one caught, a young rider getting caught is a different matter it's for their and cycling sake that armstrong needs to stop being a false idol and become a pariah.
I'm not sure that Armstrong is entirely to blame, a huge amount of blame has to be placed on the money and pressure from teams/team managers, even from a very young age.
ie arguably the greatest ever)
He has been immense at marketing the man, the myth the legend the brand ...like becks has with football
LA targeted the TdF and that alone, no classics, other major tours ..i think he only took part in one other but not sure. Great yes, greatest ever, No.
i'm not saying he is, he's definitely a big cog in the machine though.
that's why he's getting all the attention compared to the others charged by USADA.
it still wouldn't surprise me if he somehow wiggles out of this situation despite the burden of proof being lower than a law court.
another point is other sports that have a doping problem but it's not a popular topic unless it's cycling, there is an interesting situation going on in tennis at the moment where players are complaining about a proven doper* coming back from a ban, not because he is a doper but because they think he is spying on them in the changing room.
what have they got to hide?
*was caught with HGH but was transparent about the medical reasons he took it thus reducing his ban.
[url= http://tensport.com.au/news/newsarticles/Tennis-Im-not-locker-room-drugs-spy-says-Odesnik.htm ]http://tensport.com.au/news/newsarticles/Tennis-Im-not-locker-room-drugs-spy-says-Odesnik.htm[/url]
..i think he only took part in one other but not sure
cancer.
And thats bollocks. Cavendish, Wiggins, Boonen, Gilbert, Cancellara, where are the stories about these high achievers? nowhere, because there's nothing to see.
[url= http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/04/boonen-totals-ferrari-after-post-flanders-fete/ ]Not strictly related, but pretty funny.. and implicates a 'performance enhancing' drug[/url]
My colleague told me about this, the car was wrecked near his house so he snuck over to have a gawp .. no pics unfortunately.
Personally I would have a word with my mate after checking the date that story was published.
@ Mr Smith I am not sure cancer is a recognised bike race. Clearly his story is a remarkable one of recovery from the Big C to be a superb athlete. You can see why it would inspire folk and why he , and others, would not want to tarnish it.
If he is found guilty then he should be a pariah, as should Merckx, Anquetil, Coppi, Simpson, Ullrich and probably Hinault and Indurain, although those last two were never proven, just rather suspicious. Maybe all previous results should be struck from the record, and the sport should start again with a clean slate. Unfair to those who did achieve victories clean (assuming anyone did), but the way the sport glorifies convicted drug cheats cannot possibly help with this issue.
It's a very unfortunate fact that professional cycling's history is inextricably linked with drugs. We may even have riders who have admitted to doping riding on the tour right now. Armstrong isn't really to blame, although he does demonstrate what success can bring. Unfortunately as long as there is money and prestige in cycling [b]and[/b] people think they can get away with it, then there will be doping. The authorities have to make sure that people can't get away with it.
no doubt he gives a lot of inspiration to people in their battle with cancer, hopefully that will be his legacy not the other things he also used drugs to beat.
Warton if one of them started to dominate though just watch the whispering start..
How can he be soo good etc.
Seeing Lance felled by a carrier bag then his true grit recovery ..is that drugs or someone digging deeper than you and me ever could? At the end of a long stage as well.
If LA wasnt such an abrasive character he'd be a thousand times more popular however its probably part of what drives him as well.
Can we stop these sort of threads now. Its turning into trolling. Lets wait and see. Of course if the charges are dropped again it will be seen as suddenly the agency are"his friends".
Still a star amongst stars IMO. Though I know nothing of Armstrong outside of his racing, never could give a ****.
Then I did grow up following Merckx, and have always struggled with the random nature of these so called witch hunts.
I do feel sorry for Hincapie as his scalp must surely be next, then again he is a nice cheat! rather like Pantani.
Of course if the charges are dropped again it will be seen as suddenly the agency are"his friends".
Exactly. It's got to the point now where there are no winners. If he's found not guilty then there will be people saying it's a conspiracy, a whitewash. If found guilty then there's still no winners and there will be people saying it's all a fabrication - what does it achieve exactly? What do you do with the results? We've already agreed that most others in the top 10 were doping so do you just put an asterisk next to LA (in the same way there should be an asterisk next to a lot of other people). And where now? Strip Virenque of his 7 KOM wins? Posthumously strip Pantani of his win?
And how have USADA got all these former close allies to testify exactly? Have they all suddenly developed a conscience or have USADA managed to find just enough evidence to blackmail them with in return for testimony to bring down their number 1 target. Either way, it's suspicious, unfair and brings us back to the witch-hunt that this has become.
Seeing Lance felled by a carrier bag then his true grit recovery ..is that drugs or someone digging deeper than you and me ever could?
that's you embellishing his 'achievements' and glossing over those who have ridden the spring classics (LA didn't like the cold,mud,cobbles) those who have ridden 2 weeks in the tour with broken collar bones or got back on the bike having been thrown through a barbed wire fence.
i wouldn't set yourself as the standard of what digging deeper means to the average sportsman, that would make every hard climb some kind of epic challenge.
Can we stop these sort of threads now. Its turning into trolling. Lets wait and see.
just stop posting/looking at the tread then, others are happy to have healthy discourse about doping, there must be other threads for you to look at/contribute? i'm sure i saw a what car thread the other day?
Warton if one of them started to dominate though just watch the whispering start..
Yeah, because Cancellara and Boonen haven't dominated the spring classics for the last 6 years have they? Cancellara has only been world TT champion 4 times for christs sake, call that dominating???
You seem to think road cycling begins and ends with the tour, which is what most people who covet the elastic band think
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Cancellara#Career_highlights ]Cancellara[/url]
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boonen#Palmares ]Boonen[/url]
You seem to think road cycling begins and ends with the tour, which is what most people who covet the elastic band think
You mean it doesn't. 😥
Seeing Lance felled by a carrier bag then his true grit recovery ..is that drugs or someone digging deeper than you and me ever could? At the end of a long stage as well.
Panatani has the record time up Ale duez after a long stage, cav the fastest sprinter.you did read the article earlier that said that epo affected people differently ...perhaps he just got a better boost ...anyway I am sure could dig deeper with drugs than without - assuming i took the right ones. this is just more of the LA is awesome and no one else can compare with him - true for the TdF of late but not true in general as people keep saying.
If LA wasnt such an abrasive character he'd be a thousand times more popular however its probably part of what drives him as well.
How exactly could he be more popular ?. His personality is neither here nor there People who know very little or nothing about cycling will name LA as the best of all time for example, for many i bet he is the only cyclist they can name.
Can we stop these sort of threads now. Its turning into trolling.
Is it?perhaps you could stop "trolling" with your unwavering defence? Oh you mean the doubters/people you disagree with dont you
Lets wait and see. Of course if the charges are dropped again it will be seen as suddenly the agency are"his friends".
Well he does seem to have had special treatment in the past re testing so perhaps if this had not happened there would be no suspicion?
Of course if he is found guilty you will immediately accept it , stop saying it was a witch hunt and admit you were wrong?
Somebody asked for stories about [url= http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2009-05-09-boonen-cocaine-test_N.htm ]Boonen[/url]
And what do people think about three Sky riders looking far too easy while Cadel grovels to stay on and all the others have been shot out the back?
I thought it was great!
Like in the good old days of drug-fuelled attacks.
is that drugs or someone digging deeper than you and me ever could
Digging deeper is a sport commenentor myth. In fact you reach a point where trying harder is counter productive. In my case it was around 350W and somewhere between 170bpm and 180bpm depending on fitnes, type of event and duration. I could peak at over 200bpm in a sprint but in an X-C ski race, run, triathlon or bike race I knew that if there were more than a few kms to go then my time over 180bpm was strictly limited and to be used wisely.
Trying to push harder when already at 180bmp and breathing hard soon resulted in a loss of coordination, a break down in style (especially on skis), my head starting to swim, balance going. All these problems resulting in slower progress than recognising the signs of being at the threshold and maintaining that level.
