[Closed] Still Blindly Defending him Hora?

Haven't we done all of this before? [i]Several[/i] times?

Where did it get last time? Nowhere. So, why not go and do something more useful instead, folks!

don simon - Member
Now that Peter Sagan, remember you heard it here first
Oddly, have been thinking the same thing.

Look on it as Lance's legacy to the sport

this whole saga has to end sometime

no it doesn't. 😉

Judge holds vials of blood showing confirmed doping for Armstrong

Until I see that. Sorry keep the press conjecture coming.

I'm with Hora on this one. They're trying to charge him on nothing but presumption so far. No actual evidence.
Once this 'vial of blood' has been tested and it's proven, then I'll be convinced.

The fact that they're planning on letting self admitted dopers ride the Tour and Vuelta this year before banning them at the end of the season, when they are coincidentally retiring from the sport, makes it look like nothing more than a hatchet job aimed at Armstrong.

Kinda off on a tangent.....

I lived in the area at the sametime that the Ripper murdered a street worker.

We are both white and have a yorkshire accent.

Possibly some of the above posters could convict me as being the one who did it.......did any of you work on the Police force that investigated those crimes? 😆

**blindingly stupid analogy of the weeeeeek**

Lance was about 10% stronger than the top guys these days and mountains were being climbed much faster in his era than today. Virtually all his contemporaries (many of whom never failed a test) have been found/ adimtted to taking drugs and now his team mates are admitting to to being on the juice.

If you think he was riding clean you are blind.

couple of things that people seem to be missing.

This case is not aimed solely at armstrong (his press are spinning this as a personal vendetta) the case is about supply and use of illegal drugs in sport with from memory 5 people (incl LA< ferrari & bruynell) charged armstrong is one of them, and also relates to incidents that took place as late as 2008.

there are 10 witnesses who testified against the five people confirming what they witnessed, Hincappe, vaughters, leiheimer and verde are supposedly among them, although reading vaughter tweets he seems happy to pretty much admit this, and oddly has also anounced that he nor anyone in the team will be serving a 6 month ban, which seems to indicate that it was armstrong's 'team' that leaked the story.

The federal investigation was to investigate whether or not federal money (via usps) was used in the sale and buying of drugs, even if LA had stood up and said I used epo everyday for 10 years that would have been useless in theor investigation as it didnt prove it was bought with government money. It's USADA's job to investigate doping in sport which they are doing.

Personally I think LA's back is against the wall and his only defence now will be to discredit the witnesses, todays leak seems to be the start of that.

So, why not go and do something more useful instead, folks!

Like your good self 😉

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I think the whole competitive sporting "I'm better than wot you are" thing is childish and elitist. Doping is just a symptom.

Basically, there's 3... No, 4 possibilities:

Lance didn't cheat, everyone else cheated.
Lance cheated, everyone else cheated.
Lance cheated, no-one else cheated.
And (I almost forgot) no-one cheated.

3 combinations in 4 say he's either unimaginably awesome or merely the best by a very very long way.

Even if Lance was doping (and he probably was), he was still the best [s]cyclist[/s] at taking performance enhancing drugs for the period he was winning, which was a long time.

FTFY

Lance was about 10% stronger than the top guys these days and mountains were being climbed much faster in his era than today. Virtually all his contemporaries (many of whom never failed a test) have been found/ adimtted to taking drugs and now his team mates are admitting to to being on the juice.

If you think he was riding clean you are blind.

My tuppence-worth...

I don't agree with the "everyone else was doping, therefore Lance must have been in order to beat them".

Many of his rivals have been proven to have doped and yet there's no such evidence against Lance despite probably the most exhaustive testing any athlete has been subject to.

Every now and again an athlete arises who dominates their sporting rivals ... Usain Bolt, Pete Sampras (more recently, Federer?), Kelly Slater & Layne Beachley, Craig Alexander (IronMan), Michael Phelps, Tiger Woods, Tony Hawk, Wayne Gretzky ...

Or, they were/are all doped up to the eye-balls as well ...

Cantador holds the rate of climb record and the riders haven't slowed down.

Armstrong tested positive for cortisone in 1999 but the UCI accepted an ante-dated medical certificate against its own rules. It's a positive test whichever way you look at it so Armstong has been lying ever since.

Many of his rivals have been proven to have doped and yet there's no such evidence against Lance despite probably the most exhaustive testing any athlete has been subject to.

I love it when people believe the Lance PR machine, without doing any other reading on the topic.

didnt tiger woods have laser eye surgery to make his vision and depth perception super human which is essentially the doping of the golf world?

I dunno about Dave Zabriskie man, that dude's weird.

Lance didn't cheat, everyone else cheated.
Lance cheated, everyone else cheated.
[s]Lance cheated, no-one else cheated.[/s]
[s]And (I almost forgot) no-one cheated.[/s]

Well we know for a fact that some people at least cheated, so only 2 scenarios could be correct.

3 combinations in 4 say he's either unimaginably awesome or merely the best by a very very long way.

Actually either of the only 2 possible scenarios indicate that Lance is unimaginable awesome.
Some people hate awesome.

in many peoples eyes he will never been seen as the greatest cyclist of all time (even though he is),

no he isn't Eddie Merckx is.

Going back to your original point about his allies grassing him up.
You seem to have added 2 and 2 and got 5.
the report says
"George Hincapie, Levi Leipheimer, Christian Vande Velde and David Zabriskie are said to have given evidence in the USADA investigation which has charged Armstrong with doping."

given evidence and all supplied evidence of wrong doing are not the samething.
It is just a record that they have been called before USADA and given a statement.
The contents of which we don't know.

So far the case against him by USADA has been a lot of smoke and mirrors. Two big PR machines going head to head.

Basically, there's 3... No, 4 possibilities:

Lance didn't cheat, everyone else cheated.
Lance cheated, everyone else cheated.
Lance cheated, no-one else cheated.
And (I almost forgot) no-one cheated.

3 combinations in 4 say he's either unimaginably awesome or merely the best by a very very long way.

This

Only option 3 has been proven to be wrong as a load of cheats that Lance beat have owned up.

So whichever way you look at it Lance's repuatation as a great cyclist isn't tarnished. But you have to be pretty naive to think he didn't dope.

"I love it when people believe the [s]Lance[/s] USADA PR machine, without doing any other reading on the topic."
FTFY

Nah Dave Zabiskie's alright, he's pretty cool.

[i]didnt tiger woods have laser eye surgery to make his vision and depth perception super human which is essentially the doping of the golf world?[/i]

Only in that golf where you hit the ball with your eyes

....and yet we say nothing about certain UK athletes who go from being pretty good to world beaters, smashing records by considerable margins (a give away perhaps?), at a certain age and train in obscure locations.....but THEY ARE clean obviously.

Have you seen Dave Zabriskie's moustache?

Why, has he lost it?

DezB - damn, coffee on the keyboard moment. Why are the old ones so funny?!?

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in many peoples eyes he will never been seen as the greatest cyclist of all time (even though he is),
no he isn't Eddie Merckx is.

Followed by Hinault, de Vlaeminck, Coppi, and then Bartoli, Le Mond and then Kelly.

Plus Lance is annoying as hell. Can people go to prison for that?

When did Kevin Kline take up cycling?

but if I wasn't then I'd be of the opinion that all these cases against him are only adding to his credibility.

this is the problem to some supporters the belief in his awesomesness is messianic and cannot be tarnished no matter what happens

Lance has already had his legacy tainted, in many peoples eyes he will never been seen as the greatest cyclist of all time (even though he is), surely for the anti Lance groups this is enough? Time to stop the witch hunt and move on FFS

Well if he was a drugs cheat that may explain why he was the greatest ..witch hunt is just you repeating you think he is innocent personally I am waiting for justice to be done and he may be the greatest TdF rider but he is not tjher greatest cyclist

blindingly stupid analogy of the weeeeeek

You flatter I him it is an idiotic and moronic statement

[b]Lance was about 10% stronger than the top guys these days and mountains were being climbed much faster in his era than today. Virtually all his contemporaries (many of whom never failed a test) have been found/ adimtted to taking drugs and now his team mates are admitting to to being on the juice.
If you think he was riding clean you are blind.[/b]

THIS a million times this – look at cuddles he raced and how far down was he in the era ? He has ot got quickr everyone else has got slower. SO either drugs or LA being seriously awesome to the power of sic?

Cantador holds the rate of climb record and the riders haven't slowed down

What climb? Not Alpe D’Huez that is Pantani who also never failed a drugs test and is therefore clean 🙄 . This would be a better argument if you had someone who was not a convicted drugs cheat

"Pantani who also never failed a drugs test"

Really! are you talking about Marco or another Pantani?

Thor Hushvod of Credit Agricole:

DZ: Thor what does it feel like to have the coolest name in the peleton?

TH: I didn’t know it was a cool name.

DZ: Trust me it is.

TH: O.k. then. It feels pretty cool then.

DZ: Thanks for the interview.

in many peoples eyes he will never been seen as the greatest cyclist of all time (even though he is)

no he isn't Eddie Merckx is.

I'm not sure he can be declared the greatest cyclist of all time considering that he failed two or three drug tests during his time.

Even if he was awesome to the power of sic and conincidentally far better than any clean rider in history at a time when EPO was rampant, his whole team was dirty and I would be very surprised if Lance didn't know it.

Remember the blue train? Most of them seem to have been on drugs and I don't believe a team leader like Lance would leave the preparation of his TDF team to chance. I'm sure we'll find out more but I would be very surprised if there wasn't an organised doping program like Freiburg University.

I'm not sure he can be declared the greatest cyclist of all time considering that he failed two or three drug tests during his time.

as did all the top ten (apart from the likes of coppi etc when there was no testing and drug use the norm)

Simeoni gets my vote for the greatest.

Really! are you talking about Marco or another Pantani?

Yep he never failed a drugs test - he was once chucked off a tour for odd haematocrit levels but never failed a test.

And for all those claiming armstrong is the most tested athlete ever - this is not the case - more spin from the publicity machine.

I used to be a huge armstrong fan, wastotally in the def clean camp but unfortunately for me there's too much evidence against him now (epo in urine samples, the failed test, his treatment of jesus, simeoni and other riders, the gagging orders on his wife and girlfriends,the team being pre warned of tests and having half hour to prepare for tests, and now the sworn testomony of ten ex team mates). At the end of the end of hte day he's also not a nice person (anyone remember the youtube footage of him deliberately riding into a man at the end of a race and then having a go at him?)

Pantani who also never failed a drugs test"

Really! are you talking about Marco or another Pantani?

Yes this one he had a haemocritic level above 50% so it was termed a fail but he never teested postitive for any drug

Although he never tested positive, his career was beset by doping allegations. In the 1999 Giro d'Italia, he was expelled due to his irregular blood values. Although he was disqualified for "health reasons", it was implied that Pantani's high haematocrit was the product of EPO use. Following later accusations, Pantani went into a depression from which he never fully recovered. He died of acute cocaine poisoning in 2004.

People supporting LA are increasing looking like kids who don't want to accept there is no Father Christmas.

Stop sucking up the spin from the Armstrong Empire.

1. Drugs have been found in his samples
2. The inventor of the test for EPO has looked back at LA blood patterns and said it was impossible for him not to have been doping
3. He battered people we now know were on EPO
4. The list of witnesses who have testified against him is getting longer and longer.

Well Pantini certainly failed one drug test! But not a sport related one.

"Although he never tested positive" that is a bit of an untruth.
You need to look a bit further than the wiki.
Failed tests yes, convicted? no. Death stopped play:-(