[Closed] Stephen Fry lets rip at The Mail..

the normal-minded among us would only ever countenance buying the Mail if we'd run out of bog roll, the we'll be fine

I got offered a free one with my purchases at WHS recently - we had plenty of bog roll at the time though.

40mpg.

You flatter me!

I did try my best, though. One of the reasons I like Stephen Fry is that he makes me feel like I should try to learn more, speak better and broaden my horizons.

He is vehemently pro-thinking. The Mail is not. That has historically been the difference between tyranny and freedom.

My mum too, who was a fairly leftie teacher back in her day. 🙂 And once came close to hitting me for suggesting that it might be ok to cross a picket line outside a bank if you really needed to lodge a cheque. 😆 And now, in her dotage, she reads the ****ing Irish Daily Mail and listens to crap daytime radio. I worry sometimes that it's ahead of us all. 😐

The Mail is a frigging horrendous paper. I wouldn't use it to my wipe my arse!

Lovely guy, well spoken, thoughtful, never a strong opinion about anything though is borderline over-cautious. He Loves nothing better then settling down with the Mail on both days of a weekend.

I know! WTF is wrong with them?
I sometimes wonder if it's a car crash reality TV style addiction.

In the place where I worked my summers at uni, me and the lead Quantity Surveyor used to steal the receptionist's copy of the mail and fill out the crossword with the names of famous Nazis...

If I dare to make a broad assumption here - many of 'our' generation find ourselves looking at our parents with bafflement at times. As a few others here have commented, they have parents who also read the DM. We don't think our older relatives are bad people, but they seem to hold views that are very different to our own. Somehow we don't think the way they do, yet they raised us. Often they put a lot of effort into ensuring we had education, literature and experiences that formed us into the fairly free-thinking people we are today.

There isn't really a point to this, but it is something that I mull over now and then. I suppose that they are products of a time and place we seek to distance ourselves from at times - as much as we are products of our times and places. They are not bad people, but they baffle the crap out of me with some of the utter guff they repeat having read it in the DM. Will my daughter look upon me in the same way?

Im guessing when the next generation of kids look on their Guardian reading parents they may well think WTF 😀

Daily Fail is read by idiots who can't think for themselves and are full of prejudice

buy the Daily Mail. So god knows what kind of bigot does!

Sometimes she does appear extremely bigoted however, I'm sure she directly quotes the DM sometimes whilst sharing her view of the (in her eyes extremely small) world with me 🙂

TooTall - good post and certainly gets you wondering.

I forgot to mention: the rest of my father-in-laws family; his siblings and mother (my uncle-in-law and grand-mother-in-law) are more like what I would perceive a Mail reader to be (and they all are).

i.e. there is some mixed-racial relationship in there. i.e. white-british uncle marrying and having kids with Thai, and also 'illegitimate child out in nigeria too. One of the British-Thai kids now married and had [grand]kids with British Ghanian .

Yet that particular branch of the original family are constantly moaning 'muslim this' 'blacks that' 'taking our jobs those'
😀 even with them present at the same family event!!!!!

[img] [/img]

Arse.

Given all of the comments about older, seemingly sensible relatives reading the mail, I wonder whether part of the paper's appeal is in giving sensibly-minded people who think that the world is a little too liberal the feeling that however right-wing their own views are, they're comfortably left of the DM.

They can indulge their inner Mosely, while still being able to stay comfortably left of a mainstream newspaper, thinking "Agreed, yes. I wouldn't have put it as strongly as that, but they do have a point."

For people looking for comfort, I'd imagine reading a paper voicing the worst of their concerns, at the same time as giving them a marker for counting themselves as comparitively liberal, is a happy place to spend a morning on the patio with a couple of cups of tea.

The idea that Stephen Fry is not entitled to voice his opinions via his celebrity status but Paul Dacre is, via his controlling position as editor, is indicative of the Mail's inner Nazi.

Awesome work, Stephen Fry. Epic rant, and every word true as well!

I also have the said older relatives who read the Mail. However, they also vote BNP, so definitely not sensible, more on the incredibly bigoted side.

steal the receptionist's copy of the mail and fill out the crossword with the names of famous Nazis...

This will be my new office sport from tomorrow. 🙂

The idea that Stephen Fry is not entitled to voice his opinions via his celebrity status but Paul Dacre is

Has that been said? Not read all of the links.

Not surprised. I can't imagine the overlap between the 6.5m of Fry's twitter followers and the 1.5m of the Mails readership is anything bigger than miniscule.

Erm... except for those that follow for the sole purpose of being outraged, which, to be fair, is probably quite a significant number.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemöller.

I do love when my mum starts ranting about immigrants, and I say, innocently, 'but wasn't grandad (her dad) Irish?'

Also my uncle reads the mail, his family are romany originally, I don't point this out to him, as I don't want a fight!

My parents (65yo) have always read the Mail and Express since I was a child. They are perfectly reasonable, intelligent, liberal, young outlook, left-leaning, etc, so I have never understood why.

My Mum's reasoning seems to be that it isn't a red top and it isn't a broadsheet, which is too big for her small frame to hold

It's like a classic helmet thread on here, it's not likely to chnage much.

The people who recognise how objectionable the Daily Mail is will applaud it.

But however well-reasoned Stephen Fry's attack is, it's still written by Stephen Fry, which will give the DM editorial message, supported by its readership, the allowance to deride and disparage it.

Good point. I should be following Stephen Fry on Twitter. That was truly excellent.

I don't understand why anyone is giving this letter any time at all. If it had come from any of us it would not have made news. So why is it deemed news when it's written by someone who has been on the telly? What makes his opinion any more valid, right, or wrong, then anyone else's?

I really don't get the hatred for the Mail. Sure it's bigoted and prints/publishes some pretty nasty articles, and constantly contradicts itself, but not even the actual "journalists" actually believe any of their trashy content.

It's funded by your outrage - they print something offensive, Twitter goes berserk, the DM website gets loads of hits and consequently makes money from ad revenue. Professional Trolling. The best thing you can do is to just ignore it.

Once you realise that it's all just their (admittedly bad taste) business model, then there's no need to play into their hands and rant about them, their articles or their readers.

If we all just ignored it then it would all go away.

[i]An enjoyable rant,[/i]

...makes me feel justified in my intense hatred ...

Isn't it exactly that mindset that the anti-mail brigade object to?

Could it be that it's the development of any "intense hatreds" earlier in life that leads to Mail Reading in the later stages?

joeydeacon - Member
I really don't get the hatred for the Mail.

If we all just ignored it then it would all go away.

isnt it the most read 'news' website in the country, mayeb even the world

it gets most of its hits from the celebrity gossip trash, but its the subtle rightwing brain washing that goes along with it

my mum started buying it for the free dvds but now shes suckered in

Nice rant, poor argument.
Fry is far too arrogant & pompous for my taste. I prefer people who put equal amounts of care into their message and their delivery.

Nice read though.

Their "Journalists" should hang their heads in shame that they prostitute themselves for this.

If we all just ignored it then it would all go away.

I get your point but ignorance and prejudice will not be overcome by putting your head in the sand and going lalalal till it just goes away, sadly.

I got offered a free one with my purchases at WHS recently .

Panini Swastika sticker book?

If I dare to make a broad assumption here - many of 'our' generation find ourselves looking at our parents with bafflement at times. As a few others here have commented, they have parents who also read the DM. We don't think our older relatives are bad people, but they seem to hold views that are very different to our own. Somehow we don't think the way they do, yet they raised us. Often they put a lot of effort into ensuring we had education, literature and experiences that formed us into the fairly free-thinking people we are today.

There isn't really a point to this, but it is something that I mull over now and then. I suppose that they are products of a time and place we seek to distance ourselves from at times - as much as we are products of our times and places. They are not bad people, but they baffle the crap out of me with some of the utter guff they repeat having read it in the DM. Will my daughter look upon me in the same way?

Great post sir.

I get your point but ignorance and prejudice will not be overcome by putting your head in the sand and going lalalal till it just goes away, sadly.

Yeah, but when that ignorance and prejudice is largely only present in order to gain attention, then it will soon disappear if the hits suddenly dried up. Ultimately the DM's a business, and has to keep doing what works - if the current model stopped working, then they'd be forced to change, and work out other ways of attracting visitors.

I agree that unfortunately it's pretty unlikely that this will happen in the foreseeable future.

your argument is broadly accurate of how the website works

Shock jock tactics and celebs stuff to generate hits even though a reasonable percentage much just go WTF at the articles.

Not sure it is for the paper as a large portion of society [ old it appears from this thread] are still rather conservative [ small c and possibly politically as well] so the paper would still thrive/sell.

It an easy and successful business model be it the Mail or Clarkson and your right it should not be taken seriously. problem is many of those who follow them do take them seriously [ less so for clarkson I assume]

My aunt has lived in spain for a long time. She speaks to my mum regulalry, but my mum start getting worried about her. Everytime they spoke on the phone my mum said she was asking how my mum was coping with the place being over run by imigrants, cancer rates soaring, the NHS crumbling, swans being shot by feral youth on mini motos with airguns etc.

Turns out she had starting going to some coffee shop that had inetrnational papers and she'd started reading the daily malice. My mum told her to stop.

Tomd - snap! My mum lives in Spain and reads the mail in a bar. I now preface any response to information from her with "did you read that in the daily mail".

My Mum's reasoning seems to be that it isn't a red top and it isn't a broadsheet, which is too big for her small frame to hold

You've told her that the Independent, Times and Guardian are all available in 'compact' size haven't you? 🙂

One of the best things I have done recently (which shows what a saddo I am) is to put kittenblock on my chromebook which then gets picked up on all chrome browsers I use when I log in. No more seeing Daily Hate even accidentally!

Stephen Fry, I love him nearly as much as I hate the Daily Mail.

The Daily Mail is generally a squalid little rag, I think many people agree. However I don't have time either for the likes of Fry and his own particular brand of intolerance. The intolerance that refuses to allow another people and culture to have a different set of moral values to his own.

He seems very much in favour of free speech as long as you agree with his point of view. If you don't then action should be taken against you.

Oh, and before you accuse me of siding with the Mail, or being anti gay, I'm not. I couldn't give two hoots what someone's sexuality is. However I'm more in favour of freedom of speech and accept that other people, and countries, see things differently to us.

PeterPoddy - Member

I usually have a lot of time for Stephen Fry. I like the chap.

Now, I have a LOT MORE time for him. Well done Mr F.

And, as aside, THAT'S how to rant, STW take note!

Plus 1. Times one million!

@Kennyp

-See what you mean but I don't think Mr Fry was being 'intolerant' in this case. He's defending himself. It's fair enough - DM asked for it when they dragged his name in.

I agree. In his defence of himself against the Mail he's quite justified, although I do think the journalist made a perfectly fair point when he said that Frys comparison of the situation in Russia to that of the murder of millions of Jews was quite offensive.

I was more having a dig at the section of society that preaches tolerance, respect for all people and freedom of speech. And who them lambast anyone who takes a differing stand to theirs as indulging in hate speech and who should be banned, by law, from having those opinions.

And again, to make my own feelings on the matter known (in case anyone thinks I agree with the Mail), in fact I disagree with the Russian laws, but I respect their right to hold their own moral values. As for Stephen Fry, I thnk he's brilliantly witty and clever, and love much of what he has done as a writer and performer. It's just this "I refuse to accept other people's point of view" attitude I find distasteful.

I don't understand why anyone is giving this letter any time at all. If it had come from any of us it would not have made news. So why is it deemed news when it's written by someone who has been on the telly? [b]What makes his opinion any more valid, right, or wrong, then anyone else's?[/b]

Excellent. Nearly as good as his speech on the value of the Catholic Church.

Stephen Fry......

You have moved even further up in my opinion.

You are brilliant. I'm glad to have someone so eloquent, intelligent and informed put into words the things I feel but am not clever enough to express myself.

The scary thing about the daily hate is that it is read by 'normal people' not just idiots who can be dismissed, and they vote, and they vastly outnumber those who have considered balanced opinons.

looking at the 'celebrity' pics, the hateful headlines are subtly absorbed into their heads without question and they form opinion based on the 'facts' in 'the paper'.

My gran actually told me once in all seriousness that the water shortage and hose pipe ban that summer was because the indians drank all the water....
This seems mad, but it is not that far removed from a typical daily hate storyline...

Thank you Mr Fry.

I like it as a paper and it serves a usful purpose.

It reminds me I have not turned into my dad.....................yet.

My aunt has lived in spain for a long time. She speaks to my mum regulalry, but my mum start getting worried about her. [b]Everytime they spoke on the phone my mum said she was asking how my mum was coping with the place being over run by imigrants, cancer rates soaring, the NHS crumbling, swans being shot by feral youth on mini motos with airguns etc[/b].

Thats what you get when you vot for the con -servatives and read the daily hate filled mail