Forum menu
There's no demand for hairdressers, car mechanics, plumbers, sparkys
Really? Round here all of the (British-born) plumbers and sparkys I've tried to get in to do work have either not bothered to return my calls/not turned up to appointments or been booked up weeks in advance.
Almost, but not quite. It's not the governments fault for being involved, but it is their fault (all parties) for intervening badly/meddling
Thankfully Gove is intent on trying to get most schools to turn into academies where they will be free from government intervention and can abandon the oppressive nanny-state fetters of things like having to provide healthy school meals and not selling incredibly sugary drinks and snacks. They can also be free to teach creationism as a valid scientific theory with equal weight to evolution. Yay! 😕
teamhurtmore - MemberPlease excuse me for being cynical about the performance of politicians...
Unlike of course the performance of "economists" such as yourself teamhurtmore ?
.
From the OP's link :
Those pupils in England who are considered to be "high performing" are most likely to attend private or grammar schools, the report says, rather than being state educated.
So someone has figured out that those who are specially selected for their academic achievement and placed in grammar schools do better than average ? The author is clearly an exceptionally astute individual. Sadly though, not astute enough to be aware that a child can be grammar school educated [u]and[/u] state educated.
Nice try Ernie, but not/never have been a professional economist, only studied to Masters! But I invest a lot in education in all senses.
I like MSP's suggestion. I'd like to see him use his legendary oratory skills, so slickly (and smugly) displayed at the Levenson Inquiry, to plead for his life. I'd actually pay to watch that
THM you missed the question about explaining what education was like before the state intervened whilst still telling me how bad it was.
Is this because we both know we need better state intervention rather than none?
THM you mentioned teaching A level economics and you studied to a masters so it seem reasonable to label you an economist.
Sorry JY, concentrating on Fed v Djok too much now to search out the specific analysis I want to refer to. Will try later. But, yes I agree with your conclusion but differ in where I would go for the answers. Copy the best that is available rather than deplore it for political purposes. That would be a start! 😉
But I invest a lot in education in all senses.
Well I only received very basic education but am aware that quotation marks may be used to imply sarcasm, as in "economists".
I'm pleased to hear that you never went professional btw, although you profess to guide children of school age in economics.
Politics is not helpful but , having worked in various state sectors. the main problem is we get change all the time.
For example a minister will always go
PM What have you done?
Gove: Nothing it was all working perfectly so i have just managed it
Gove: I have re modelled academies, changed the education qualification, updated the curriculum and redesigned the entire selection procedure for schools.
Repeat under the next govt. It may be better left to those who educate rather than those who have political views about what may or may not work but we still need the state if not the politics.
FWIW the IB was tried locally and was massively unpopular with students and it was unclear how Uni would view it relative to A levels. Students found it harder so there were less signing up the next year as they took easier options.
Hence we just get the whole thing going full circle over and over again
... middle school also has an outstanding OFSTED report and then feeds into several outstanding Grammar Schools
It's not just the (very over-subscribed) Grammar Schools they feed into 🙄 . As I am aware, in South Bucks and Kent, people send their children to private primary/prep schools or cram for the 11 plus. Then save on school fees once they pass.
We opted out of this system and chose a very good school that educates everyone, including the gifted academically, and the gifted vocationally.
JY, exactly your "change" is my "meddling"! On IB, my main point was that there is no need for further change/new government initiatives when a well tried and tested version is available. But it illustrates our points perhaps. Whether it is better or not, is an open question. I have been at some lectures on the subject recently and was given stats that showed that IB students do better at Uni and subsequently. But the stats did come from an IB representative so hardly going to say the opposite!
Can't we just start sending the filthy, uncouth offspring of the lower orders back down the pit from an early age. Then dispense once and for all with the ridiculous charade that we give a toss about them getting a decent education?
Put less money into education and results suffer.
It's not difficult, more teachers, reduced class size would be a start.
Also might want to stop kicking teachers in the balls at every opportunity and try and raise moral. A 10% pay rise would do for starters.
Put less money into education and results suffer.
Let's just throw some more money into the pot then.
It's not difficult, more teachers, reduced class size would be a start.
No need to worry about the quality either...
Also might want to stop kicking teachers in the balls at every opportunity and try and raise moral. A 10% pay rise would do for starters.
Give them a pay rise.
'kin simple, innit?
Put less money into education and results suffer.
Gove has pre empted all that by saying he's making the exams harder so that when results vet worse he can say he's doing a great job!
By the way anyone who starts off with " when i was at school" should be banned from saying anything further.
As I'm 17 I've just been through compulsory education in a state school and I dont agree with much being said. I'm not surprised that the result of that test leaves us lagging behind as we don't have compulsory maths until 18, whereas most of the countries do.
This isnt a problem in the real world though, 99% of jobs don't require you to perform complex algebra on a daily basis and if the student wants to do a job that requies it then surely he would take A-level maths.. IMO the whole study is flawed for that reason, you can't do a study in one subject and then say we're worse than other countries on a whole. if you're doing A-levels to study to be a photographer why the heck do you need to learn further maths? It just adds additional exams for the student to worry about.
In terms of vocational courses, those students who want to go down that route are given options of several courses via their college, most of which are paid by the government anyway. There's also options for apprenticeships to gain qualifications in a specific subject while getting a job at the end and getting paid during the course. I went down this route, doing an engineering related apprenticeship with a well known company.
And despite all these pay cuts and apparent job cuts there's been no decrease in the quality of teaching, sure you can get the odd rubbish teacher but on the whole i'd say the system is good. It also supports the more able students by giving them extra curriculum options should they so wish. While i can't speak for the whole country i'm not speaking about just a single school, i've mates from probably 10 schools and it's the same from them, the teaching standards are still the same and none of the bright pupils are being neglected.
TL:DR the report is bs.
Aanddd essay over!
So teaching kids in classes appropriate to their ability doesn't benefit the kids or the teachers?
Meta study says no
Cambridge Primary review says no
By the way anyone who starts off with " when i was at school" should be banned from saying anything further.
Ditto those who add "I'm a teacher" 🙂
Why is it always the school's and/or government's fault?
Why don't parents get pulled up for not helping their kids enough, or perhaps letting them spend more time on their computers than on their homework.
And what about the kids? Maybe they should worker harder and stop relying on spoon feeding.
Or anyone who uses the word ditto. 😀
You're pushing at an open door here CaptJon.
CaptJon earlier today
[img] 
[/img]
Ditto those who add "I'm a teacher"
Well here we go then, as I am.
[u]Undoubtedly[/u] standards had to be raised in some schools and with some teachers. I've worked in 3 secondary schools so have some perspective.
Over the last 15 years my observations are:
- Standard of teaching has improved
- Support from [i]some[/i] parents has dropped
- Quantity of paperwork (evidence, justification) has increased
massively
- Change in exam systems with different boards is a nightmare. The one
thing Gove has got right is one paper only for each subject.
- Staff moral is at an all time low.
- We now teach to Ofsted criteria - this doesn't help prepare kids for
life after school - be it employment or college.
- When I started teaching I taught it what would now be considered an
old fashioned way (and would fail an Ofsted observation). The kids
got good results and beat their targets.
- Academy status is just a financial ploy.
I could go on, but I'm sure nobody wants me too (and I've gone off topic)! I know some of this has happened in lots of professions. Teachers seem to be an easy target at the moment though.
one thing Gove has got right is one paper only for each subject
Really then how come the kids I teach biology to in year 10 next year will rather than having 3 ppapers two in year 11 and one in year ten will now have terminal exams so all 3 papers will be in June of year 11 same for chem and phys so that 9 science exams alone. All because Gove has insisted on exams at the end before the exam boards can get rid of the modular papers. No the positives and negatives of terminal exams can be debated but rushing them in before the exam boards can change anything is plain stupid.
I meant one paper that everyone in England sat (so same standard)rather than boards touting for business with different papers; I wasn't commenting on modular/linear.
As it happens I prefer linear,but, as you say, changing so quickly is stupid and not thought through.
sorry if it's been done;
State [s]Schools[/s] letting down [s]brightest[/s] pupils
just spotting the obvious...
I've been teaching in a sixth form college for 10 years and would echo what Clink says above. We've been insulated from a lot of the changes to teach-to-Ofsted imposed in schools, but it's starting to come in now.
Also might want to stop kicking teachers in the balls at every opportunity and try and raise moral. A 10% pay rise would do for starters.
Gove thinks I'm paid 20% more than other graduates locally so wants to freeze my pay until they catch up. That's on top of the pay freeze of the last couple of years, increased pension contributions and a 5% increase in my contact hours. My balls are pretty much numb by now.