President Nicolas Sarkozy has given his backing to his embattled culture minister Frederic Mitterrand who travelled to Thailand to have sex with 'young boys'.
In his book, Mr Mitterrand wrote: "I got into the habit of paying for boys ... All these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market excited me enormously ... the abundance of very attractive and immediately available young boys put me in a state of desire."
Bloody hell!
Nice selective quote. Here's another.
[i]The publisher described the book as a "novel inspired by autobiography". Mr Mitterrand denies having sex with anyone underage.[/i]
Storm in a demitasse.
Strange that this surfaces after he criticised the US over the Polanski business??
Can't read the story (as it has the dreaded s*x word in the URL) but I heard about this on Radio 4 last night.
The interesting thing is that this was all out ages ago when he first wrote the book. He has always denied that by "young" he meant "underage". Or that he condones "sex tourism".
What's happening now is the National Front are dredging it back up again for their own political gain on the back of the Polanski issue.
Hmmm...
I think anyone that says the above is a creepy ****er personally. I can't imagine a UK politician basically admitting to 'paying for boys' and expecting to keep his job.
Nor for that matter speaking up against the extradition of a convicted paedophile on hte run.
Indeed.
"To see him thrown to the lions for [b]an old story that really has no meaning[/b], and to see him alone, imprisoned, when he was going to attend a ceremony where he was to be honored, that is to say, he was trapped, it's absolutely horrifying," he said October 4, according to Agence France Presse.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/08/france.minister.scandal/index.html
Is this an example of different political culture in France where they don't really care about people's personal lives etc?
I'd love to, I really would, but I darent incur the wrath of blingbling or labrat again.
Is this an example of different political culture in France where they don't really care about people's personal lives etc?
Actually it is imo. There definitely isn't the same obsession with the private of politicians in France as there is in Britain (look at the Fred Mitterrand's uncle as an example)
But then to be fair, I'm not sure that there's many countries where the public are as obsessed with politicians private lives as they are in Britain - they tend to be less concerned with trivial issues such as who's shagging who, and more interested in, bizarrely, "politics".
Personally I think Fred Mitterrand should resign though.
Grumm is a Daily Mail journo and I claim my £5.
It's funny how I alternately get accused of being a dirty pinko hippy or a Daily Mail journo.
I dunno - I'm usually pretty liberal but this is just creepy as **** as far as I'm concerned
All these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market excited me enormously
Grumm please check the fact before you spout crap on here.
I don't like him (to be fair I don't like any right wing politician). But there is various link (albeit in french) about what happened.
I'm left with a feeling of deep unease about this.
Use of the term "boy" simply doesn't necessarily imply very young people in normal usage. I have colleagues who refer to their 30 year old fiancees as "my boy". Assuming we're translating from the french (and possibly from gay french) I think the association is probably even weaker. The man says he didn't have sex with anyone underage. As the only evidence for him having sex with anyone in Thailand at all comes from a semi-fictional autobiographical book it really is hard to see what the problem is.
That's not to say I'm wild about the general spectacle of rich white men parading around the far east buying sex with cheap prostitutes of whatever age. But the reason for getting het up about this chap personally seems fairly flakey on the basis of the articles linked here anyway. 😐
French person in shocking behaviour shocker.
Grumm please check the fact
Go on then, enlighten me.
juan - know what you mean, I think the title could have done without the 'French' part - it's madness whatever your country of origin, and has jack shit to do with being French.
Well I suppose my point was that it highlights the difference in political culture that there is even a debate about whether the guy should still be in the cabinet - so it does have shit to do with being French.
Grumm after 10 sec of webbrowsing...
[url= http://www.liberation.fr/brut-de-net/06011335-frederic-mitterrand-l-entretien-au-jt-de-tf1 ]Video of the minister yesterday eve...[/url]
Yeah right, because none of our MP's have ever been caught out and remained in office have they?
Cheers but my french isn't good enough - care to summarise for me?
Yeah right, because none of our MP's have ever been caught out and remained in office have they?
Please remind me which cabinet members have defended convicted paedophiles and admitted taking part in sex tourism with boys and kept their jobs?
Admittedly you can have people like Mandelson coming back into politics - which you might argue is worse, but it's certainly different.
The man says he didn't have sex with anyone underage.
That's possibly very true. But wealthy Europeans going to Thailand to have sex with 18/19/21/whatever age young men is unacceptable. You can be pretty damn sure that these young prostitutes didn't suddenly become prostitutes when they were 18 years old. They will have almost certainly, been abused from a very early age and have undoubtedly ****ed up heads - so hardly examples of individuals not exploited and not coerced into the sex trade.
Mitterrand should resign for those reasons imo.
[i]I got into the habit of paying for boys ... All these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market excited me enormously ... the abundance of very attractive and immediately available young boys put me in a state of desire."[/i]
I'm going to regret this statement, but nevermind. 🙂 Get rid of the words "youths" and "boys" in that paragraph for a moment.
A couple of years ago, I was on a stag do in Warsaw with a bunch of blokes, in a strip club that gets repeatedly mentioned on here as the best of Warsaw's tourist attractions. It was completely full of English blokes, quite pissed, with plenty of money, repeatedly buying cheap and very touchy-feely lap dances from the enormous number of beautiful young polish women with degrees in medicine and engineering who worked in the joint. Thinking back to that lengthy and expensive evening, every part of that sentence rings pretty much true. Now, buying strippers in Warsaw is not an enterprise I'm especially proud of, but it is not wildly abberant behaviour. Why do people do it? Mitterand's description works fairly well. There is nothing intrinsically monstrous about that description of why paying for sex appeals.
Let's be clear. Nothing in this post is intended to imply that trogging off to Thailand for the sole purpose of buying sex with 13 year olds is not ghastly and pretty unambiguously wrong.
grumm - the Heath government of the early 70's was certainly implicated in this sort of thing, and god knows, weve had our share of sleaze with succesive governments since. I agree with ernie, Mitterand should go, I'm just not sure I believe that being French has any real bearing on things, or am I missing something?
I'm just not sure I believe that being French has any real bearing on things, or am I missing something?
Again - I just think it possibly reflects the difference in culture between France and the UK that there is even debate over whether he should resign or not. Whether you think that's a good thing is another matter.
[i]You can be pretty damn sure that these young prostitutes didn't suddenly become prostitutes when they were 18 years old.[/i]
Agreed that the business as a whole is certainly very problematic. I'm not very clear in my mind that it's a killer resignation issue necessarily, but I'm not going to argue the point. 😐
grumm short story long
Did he go to thailand yes. Did he paid for sex sometimes. Was it with underages no.
But once again bear in mind I think he should resign. Mind I think the whole government should resign...
*Applauds BigDummys candour*
Obviously I'm being rational here but providing he's not been doing anything illegal (i.e. child sex tourism), I'm less bothered by his behaviour than I am with the support for self-admitted child rapist Polanski. Is it distasteful that Mitterrand goes anywhere to pay for sex, yes, but if he does a good job and everyone is consenting and legal, arguably, other than for the purposes of chosing who I vote for, I don't care.
If there's a viable alternative, Sarko won't be getting my vote at the next election but not because he props up ministers with habits I find unsupportable, but because he seems to think it's fine to ignore drugging and raping kids if you're an artist.
Actually grumm, I agree that having a debate about it seems somewhat academical, but it's no better than our own MP's arrogance in sweeping things under the carpet or pretending they havent happened. Sorry (and I'm being serious when I say that), but I'm not sure I have the political nous to discuss this issue on a bigger scale.
pervy french ba5tard eh........i bet sarkozy does boys too....... 😉
If he does, he married one hell of a beard.
BigDummy - in summary:
Buying lapdances in Warsaw = fairly creepy and a bit wrong
Buying prostitutes in Thailand = really creepy and very wrong
support for self-admitted child rapist Polanski
Umm, slightly off the subject, but IIRC, Polanski did not admit being a "child rapist", he admitted having sex with an underage girl, arranged a plea bargain which was not honoured, and then scarpered.
Well that makes all the difference doesnt it - we'd misjudged the poor bugger all along, and I for one take back everything I said about him.
Umm, slightly off the subject, but IIRC, Polanski did not admit being a "child rapist", he admitted having sex with an underage girl, arranged a plea bargain which was not honoured, and then scarpered.
I don't know about you but the fact he fed a 13 year old girl champagne and sedatives and did what he did after being told no several times and had also been asked to stop by the girl drops Polanski firmly into the ranks of child rapist (if she'd been older it would "only" have been rapist). The fact he admitted what he did but not neccesarily the details (but, it has to be added, has never objected to her version of affairs) means I'm quite comfortable calling a spade a spade here.
Sarko won't be getting my vote
Well from that I can guess he did get your vote. Some very sad people on here 🙁
Nope but I had to spend a lot of time thinking about who I was going to vote for. Events have made it less difficult for the next time. Unless retards in France vote for the FN again and I'm obligated to vote against them rather than for people I want to vote for.
I don't know about you but the fact he fed a 13 year old girl champagne and sedatives and did what he did after being told no several times and had also been asked to stop by the girl drops Polanski firmly into the ranks of child rapist (if she'd been older it would "only" have been rapist). The fact he admitted what he did but not neccesarily the details (but, it has to be added, has never objected to her version of affairs) means I'm quite comfortable calling a spade a spade here.
Be comfortable if you want, but you are also wrong. You and I may agree that he is a rapist, but he did not admit that.
Sarko won't be getting my vote at the next election ....... because he seems to think it's fine to ignore drugging and raping kids if you're an artist.
[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/10/02/sarko-blow-to-polanski-115875-21716480/ ]President Nicolas Sarkozy yesterday ordered the French government to drop support for Roman Polanski as he fights extradition to the US. His spokesman Luc Chatel said: "We have a judicial procedure under way for a serious affair. He is neither above nor beneath the law."[/url]
You and I may agree that he is a rapist, but he did not admit that.
Lots of people have not admitted to their crimes, prisons are full of people who have been convicted but tell all and sundry they're 'innocent'. Polanski just avoided the whole business of being convicted of his crimes by running away. Thankfully he has been caught at last.
Lots of people have not admitted to their crimes
Maybe so. I am not defending Polanski for a moment. I am just being a pedantic pain in the ass by pointing out that it is not strictly correct to call him a "self confessed rapist". He is (I believe) a rapist, and he is a self-confessed 'person who had sex with an underage girl'.
He said on French television when the story broke: 'It was an error yes, but not a crime, not even a serious mistake.
'Let anyone who has not committed this kind of mistake cast the first stone - among all the people watching this tonight, who among them has not done something like this at least once?'
Quite a few I would imagine.
Much would seem to depend on how we understand the words [i]something like this[/i]. But I think a moderate hail of stones might reasonably be expected, yes. 🙂
To be fair I'd like to throw the first one...
Actually no.
I'll throw the first hundred 😀
But I think a moderate hail of stones might reasonably be expected, yes.
Unless almost everyone in France [i]has[/i] done something like that? 😉
Perhaps the poster meant : "let he who has never found a Thai boy attractive, cast the first stone".
That should save Fred Mitterrand's neck.
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lol at griz.