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Was your missus a prison officer or an inmate? 🙂
🙂 parole clerk.
Maybe it's because she was bla.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ddered
after being man handled to the ground by three police officers after asking for directions to her hotel in Manchester after being separated from her husband after a night out
Wow. Why does it seem like there has to be more to it than that?
"Hi. I'm just minding my own business, but wondering how to get back to my hotel. Can you help me?"
I cannot believe for a minute that we have priests so corrupt (I know, I know) that a group of them would set out to cover up widespread abuse. As stated before, someone isn’t telling the truth and I don’t think it’s the priests.
But yeah, by all means, assume the victim is lying despite having absolutely no information. It's the lubrication that keeps society gliding along quietly.
If I knew how to post gifs in here I would be posting the popcorn eating MJ right now. This thread has the potential to be a cracker
I cannot believe for a minute that we have police so corrupt (I know, I know) that a group of them would set upon a lone woman and beat her up after she asked for directions. As stated before, someone isn’t telling the truth and I don’t think it’s the police.
I don’t either, but there’s a fine line that is easily broken. We’re very lucky to live in a country as relatively uncorrupt as it is - sometimes I think we take it for granted. Corruption is something that is very easy to normalise and yet very hard to get rid of.
There’s a joke in a lot of developing countries that if the police turn up within a few minutes of your house being robbed, it was the police robbing you.
But yeah, by all means, assume the victim is lying despite having absolutely no information. It’s the lubrication that keeps society gliding along quietly.
In this case (given the scant information the OP has given) I would be much more inclined to believe the police. If the OP had said 'she was tripping into next Sunday on a cocktail of drugs and alcohol then became abusive and physically attacked on duty police in uniform when they asked her to move on' but still thought they had used disproportionate use of force to subdue the situation I may have more reason to consider that I am not reading a story straight from Billingsgate Market.
BruceWee
Member
On reading the OP’s account, which one of us grabbed their pitchfork and started screaming, ‘LIAR!! BURN THE BLASPHEMER!!!’?
And before you say I jumped in to attack the police, I didn’t. I have no way of knowing any of the details. I was pointing out that to accuse someone who complains about the police of lying because the story sounds unlikely is a very dangerous attitude to take.
Almost every abuse of power in history has been allowed to continue because the victims were always assumed to be lying.
I wasn't going to say anything tbh
I’m the one that’s getting excited?
So, yes.
There are certainly some bad/dodgy police officers but 3 of them together choosing to assault a woman who’d just asked for directions seems a bit unbelievable to me.
It doesn't require all 3 to be "choosing", it just requires 1 or 2 and the other choose not to do anything about it.
Its a while ago now but I got pulled over for having a digital SLR which resulted in a stop and search and I got either gobby or insistent (depending how you want to class it) that they issued me a stop and search form BEFORE they searched me as per PACE.
One of them wanted to drag me into an alley but the other was more restrained.
However they didn't issue me with the form until after and during the search the aggressive one inflicted as much "punishment" as they could (for daring to ask them to comply with the law) in plain view using a biro to jab me and the more passive one did nothing to stop him.
So Steve - you weren't just asking for directions, you did something to cause the reaction you got, yet you weren't beaten by three officers (you were prodded with a pen) and still you think the OP post has a semblance of basis in truth?
And - you weren't pulled for having a digital camera were you? You were doing something *with* that camera which they found suspicious, yes?
For johnjn2000
Its a while ago now but I got pulled over for having a digital SLR which resulted in a stop and search and I got either gobby or insistent (depending how you want to class it) that they issued me a stop and search form BEFORE they searched me as per PACE.
I never understood this type of reaction.
In the first place: why, if asked to show something non-incriminating, would you not show it? Okay, the law doesn't require you to. But so what? The law doesn't require you to hold the door open for someone either, but it's just kind of a decent thing to do.
In a society like ours, which is already heavily surveyed, why do we make such a big deal of "stop and search"? Sure it can be abused, but so can any system. Canadians aren't exactly oppressed by their police, or made to feel like they live in police state, but cops can stop anyone at any time and ask for identification.
I find the decision to get belligerent over police requests a bit strange, when hardly anyone complains about the fact that there is hardly a square metre patch in London that isn't under a camera. Very British, and very much like one of my toddlers at home.
EDIT: Or were you in fact doing something that you felt defensive about?
As lots of people have said, the story doesn't seem very credible. If the story was that the police lost patience with a drunk who was being abusive, that would be quite believable. But "I just asked for directions and they threw me a beating and tossed me in an alley for no reason" raises red flags because there is no apparent motive. Like everyone above, not saying it's 100% fabricated, just that it seems quite likely that some important details might have been left out. Assuming that there was police misconduct, the credibility of witnesses will be essential, so if the complainant is not telling it 100% as it happened, that will give the officers involved an obvious defense.
Anyway, the only way to do anything about it is to make a formal complaint and identify the officers involved. If you can't identify the officers, hard to see how a complaint is going to succeed.
Its a while ago now but I got pulled over for having a digital SLR which resulted in a stop and search and I got either gobby or insistent (depending how you want to class it) that they issued me a stop and search form BEFORE they searched me as per PACE
And the officer may have thought it’s not practicable to do the search record at the moment as this guy is being unusually aggressive and I want to get him searched I’ll do it as soon as practicable after the search is completed (as PACE CoP A states). Who knows?
Dickyboy
@brucewee maybe she was wearing a loud shirt in a built up area?
I got your reference mate.
This is a hypothetical. This is not what I think happened. It's a response to the numerous, 'I can't imagine the police would ever...' responses.
Paul just found out his wife, who left him last month, had been cheating on him for two years. He's been feeling so down lately that he figured a couple of pints at lunch couldn't do any harm. His shift doesn't start until 19:00 after all.
He wakes up at 18:35. A couple pints turned into a 6 or 7 and he only managed a couple of hours sleep. He's going to be late for work.
After the bollocking he got for being late he's in a bad mood. Luckily no one seems to have noticed he's still half-cut. His shift starts badly and gets worse. It's drunken dickhead after drunken dickhead and he can't do a ****ing thing about it. His hangover is kicking in with a vengeance.
He's with his two colleagues and yet another drunk woman is stumbling towards him. She looks nothing like his wife but when she opens her mouth that same entitled tone and irritating accent emerges.
"Excuse me, I'm looking for my hotel."
Typical, too drunk to even realise the world doesn't know which hotel she is staying at.
"Can't help you, I'm afraid." Paul says, turning away. There is one group of lads across the street eyeing up another. Too many things to keep an eye on these days and nowhere near enough eyes.
He feels her grip his arm and she pulls him around with surprising force. He looks into the eyes of the entitled raging drunken bitch who is launching into a tirade about not being ignored. Something snaps and he grabs her by the hair and starts pulling her into the alley. He throws her down and has his fist on the back of her head and is squeezing her face into the street. She's screaming. He feels hands grabbing him from behind and sees others pulling the woman away from him.
By the time his head clears fully they are two streets away. ".... and we don't mention a thing about it. This never happened. What the hell is wrong with you?".
This is not what I think happened. It's one possible set of circumstances that could lead to what the OP described happening. It's why I don't think it's impossible it could have happened
I find it terrifying that so many people feel the need to tell the OP his friend is lying. You have absolutely no information and yet you are confident enough to tell someone whose friend may have just been assaulted that she is a liar.
It's pretty disgusting, tbh.
Canadians aren’t exactly oppressed by their police, or made to feel like they live in police state, but cops can stop anyone at any time and ask for identification.
Having watched the Simon Reeve documentary last night, I would suggest the Canadian Police aren't a shining example of best practice.
"why, if asked to show something non-incriminating, would you not show it?"
There's an entire Wikipedia page on the subject.
This is not what I think happened. It’s one possible set of circumstances that could lead to what the OP described happening. It’s why I don’t think it’s impossible it could have happened
Yet you have fabricated a story whereby the person making the accusation was a 'raging drunken bitch' (which may have led to the mitigating circumstances whereby there had been an over-reaction by the police). However the OP states that she was simply asking for directions which is why so many of us are very suspicious about what exactly happened...
So Steve – you weren’t just asking for directions, you did something to cause the reaction you got, yet you weren’t beaten by three officers (you were prodded with a pen) and still you think the OP post has a semblance of basis in truth?
And – you weren’t pulled for having a digital camera were you? You were doing something *with* that camera which they found suspicious, yes?
What I was doing *with* the camera was simply wearing it round my neck. I wasn't even using the camera at the time I was merely walking to a bus stop.
The aggressive one made it quite clear what dragging me into the alley was for and it seems pretty obvious the pen jabbing was to try and illicit a reaction that would then justify beating the shit out of someone who dared to question their illegal search.
Steve - did you make a complaint?
I find it terrifying that so many people feel the need to tell the OP his friend is lying.
No, people are saying that it seems quite likely that some details might have been left out and that evidence stronger than one drunk civilian's word against four police officers would be needed if the complaint is to succeed. Evidence such as: the names/numbers of the officers; eyewitness accounts from strangers; bodycam footage; medical records detailing the injuries; etc. Without that, the complaint won't go anywhere.
Yet you have fabricated a story whereby the person making the accusation was a ‘raging drunken bitch’ (which may have led to the mitigating circumstances whereby there had been an over-reaction by the police).
I didn't say she was a raging drunken bitch. I wrote a short story in which a police officer's sense of judgement temporarily deserts him due to a combination of depression, inebriation, and the increasing workload the police have to deal with.
I wrote it because so many people on here seem to have trouble imagining a set of circumstances where what the OP described could happen.
We do not have the entire story. Why people feel the need to tell the OP his recently assaulted friend is a liar I really don't understand.
I didn’t say she was a raging drunken bitch.
You did....
He feels her grip his arm and she pulls him around with surprising force. He looks into the eyes of the entitled raging drunken bitch who is launching into a tirade about not being ignored.
Why are so many ignoring the fact that the Police let her go?
If she had done anything, with 3 Officers as witnesses, they would of locked her up and then charged her. As others have said, they would be wearing body cameras to back it up. It's an easy one for their stats.
We do not have the entire story. Why people feel the need to tell the OP his recently assaulted friend is a liar I really don’t understand.
Because she hasn't given the full story?
No, people are saying that it seems quite likely that some details might have been left out and that evidence stronger than one drunk civilian’s word against four police officers would be needed if the complaint is to succeed. Evidence such as: the names/numbers of the officers; eyewitness accounts from strangers; bodycam footage; medical records detailing the injuries; etc. Without that, the complaint won’t go anywhere.
If all people were saying was, 'Without any corroborating evidence she is unlikely to get far' then that would be one thing. However, there have been many variations of this gem that pissed me off in the first place.
yer mates talking shite
We are talking about a potential assault victim here and to make matters there is no one she can complain to except the colleagues of the perpetrators.
She also has the problem that, as this thread shows, most people won't believe her.
What I find implausible is that the police have no idea which officers were on a given street at a given time. Even if they don't know exactly they must have a pretty short list of suspects to choose from.
What I find equally implausible is there's no public / private CCTV footage to corroborate (or disprove) her story.
You did….
Are you a bit slow or do you just not like reading? Here you go. Again.
I wrote a short story in which a police officer’s sense of judgement temporarily deserts him due to a combination of depression, inebriation, and the increasing workload the police have to deal with.
BruceWeee, that story you made up is really the biggest load of tosh ever. What relevance does it have to what actually happened!!!!
I'd just like to thank everyone who used my earlier mistake to lighten this thread before it went all STW on us 😄
most people won’t believe her.
If she can't come up with some corroborating evidence, you're right.
Are you a bit slow or do you just not like reading?
Pot <> Kettle
I wrote a short story in which a police officer’s sense of judgement temporarily deserts him due to a combination of depression, inebriation, and the increasing workload the police have to deal with.
The point being that you made up a story that bears no resemblance to the one the OP claims happened and one which I have already accepted that, had it been what happened, might have been the reason for the police response. Which is precisely why so many people on here do not think we have heard the full story. Yours is not the full story, it is a work of fiction.
BruceWeee, that story you made up is really the biggest load of tosh ever. What relevance does it have to what actually happened!!!!
Is there some sort of killfile that removes every other word a person writes because people seem to be what can charitably described as scanning what I'm writing. If you don't want to read what I write that's absolutely fine, you don't have to. Just maybe glance at it if you are going to respond to me directly.
From my previous post:
I wrote it because so many people on here seem to have trouble imagining a set of circumstances where what the OP described could happen.
because people seem to be what can charitably described as scanning what I’m writing
To be pedantic, I think you mean they are skimming, not scanning.
My take on this:
It's possible, however unlikely, that story unfolded exactly as the OP's friend states and three policemen (or three blokes dressed as police) took it upon themselves to have a bit of "fun". It's also possible, however unlikely, that she took a skyer whilst pissed and doesn't want to admit it so has fabricated the whole thing. The truth, I would guess, is somewhere in between. But we don't know for sure, so this is two pages of raw speculation.
The OP asked how to make a complaint. Should this go ahead, we will hopefully find out the truth in due course and then they can come back to us with an update.
Ohh Cougar don't put the brakes on this now - I am having so much fun.
The point being that you made up a story that bears no resemblance to the one the OP claims happened
Read it again. Read the OPs post again. Try seeing it from a third party's perspective and understand that individual's recollection of the exact same event can be completely different.
Anyway, the point of the story was to counter the idea it's impossible that the police could have reacted in this way. It's not what I think happened.
Why are so many ignoring the fact that the Police let her go?
If she had done anything, with 3 Officers as witnesses, they would of locked her up and then charged her.
Have you never watched those late night "Police Action" type fly-on-the-wall documentaries? You'd have to pretty much commit ABH to get chucked in the van, their MO is to stop things escalating and convince drunken quarter-wits to bugger off home. If they charged everyone who had "done something" the courts would grind to a half.
It’s not what I think happened.
what do you think happened? Please write a detailed narration of what you believe occurred and document all the evidence that supports the account.
saxonrider
I never understood this type of reaction.
In the first place: why, if asked to show something non-incriminating, would you not show it? Okay, the law doesn’t require you to. But so what? The law doesn’t require you to hold the door open for someone either, but it’s just kind of a decent thing to do.
EDIT: Or were you in fact doing something that you felt defensive about?
This was the 3rd time in not many more months I'd been stopped and searched for simply having or using a camera. In this case it was just hanging round my neck with the lens cap on.
However, that wasn't the only reason ... the officer started off being aggressive and lying.
I don't remember exact words but something like
"You fella I'm going to search you"
"Why"
"I don't need to tell you why shut the **** up and put your arms against that wall"
"I just want to know why you are stopping me and under which powers"
"I told you to shut the **** up...now get your ****ing hands against that wall"
"I'm simply asking why and for you to write it down on a 5090X ... "
"I'll give you a ****ing reason... if you resist I'll drag you down that alley and beat the shit out of you"
In a society like ours, which is already heavily surveyed, why do we make such a big deal of “stop and search”? Sure it can be abused, but so can any system. Canadians aren’t exactly oppressed by their police, or made to feel like they live in police state, but cops can stop anyone at any time and ask for identification.
I find the decision to get belligerent over police requests a bit strange, when hardly anyone complains about the fact that there is hardly a square metre patch in London that isn’t under a camera. Very British, and very much like one of my toddlers at home.
The time before was at the BM.... (yeah what a weird place to take a camera).
The whole operation at the BM and BL were later found by Lord Carlyl (whatever the spelling)to be illegal and specifically set up to fudge the stop and search numbers to prove they are not stopping a disproportionate number of minorities. (the irony being I was meeting a black friend at the museum)
and if you want to go back even FURTHER the whole of Section 44 in the Act voted on in the houses had a specific clause about the maximum amount of time a whole area can be declared that had been bypassed by simply renewing it every time it expired.
The whole thing is just bad/corrupt and open to abuse from the very top...
and finally another reason .... prior to these incidents I'd seen people being searched and thought nothing of it... or what I reaaly thought is they must have been doing something or the police wouldn't have stopped and searched them.
I think what struck me is this "no smoke without fire" ... that I had been an unwitting part of.
I think overall carrying a DSLR gave me an insight into the complaints of minority groups and whereas in the past I might see a black youth being searched and think "it's just co-incidicence they must have done something" I now questioned all the times I'd probably thought that.
To be pedantic, I think you mean they are skimming, not scanning.
Nope, I meant scanning. According to the first hit I got on google:
Scanning is reading a text quickly in order to find specific information, e.g. figures or names. It can be contrasted with skimming, which is reading quickly to get a general idea of meaning.
When people read things on STW they are scanning for anything that seems like a mistake so they can make a pedantic rebuttal.
Read it again. Read the OPs post again.
I have.
They are two different scenarios. The first one (the OPs) would lead to the person being given directions to her hotel. The second one (yours) could lead to an escalation given the right (wrong) circumstances.
As we are discussing the OPs version of events, we are asking whether or not we have heard the full details of events. Had we been discussing your made up account, we might be suggesting ways she could seek advice to make a complaint about police brutality.
johndoh
Steve – did you make a complaint?
Nope, though I probably should have but really I doubt anything would have happened anyway except just one extra complaint ???
what do you think happened? Please write a detailed narration of what you believe occurred and document all the evidence that supports the account.
Are you being serious? The OP asked how to make a complaint against the police. Many people decided to jump in with variations of, 'Yer mates talking shite.
I pointed out they have absolutely no way of knowing that and the fact they jump to that conclusion is scary.
Telling someone whose friend may have just been assaulted she is a liar is a crap thing to do and that attitude only serves to let abusers continue abusing.