I know I don’t watch a load of football, but for the so called goat, Messi’s a cheating little shit isn’t he?
He’s Argentinian. It’s fair to say they’ve got quite a bit of form on the cheating front
It’s been far too nice this this World Cup. Finally we have some anger. There’s gonna be a riot if the Dutch win.
There’s gonna be a riot if the Dutch win.
LOL!
We need a ‘Gladiator’ ‘Am I Not Entertained’ meme here.
Fabulous stuff
Has every player on the pitch been carded yet?
Has every player on the pitch been carded yet?
I got a card in the 85th minute, all I did was pour a glass of vino.
Most of the bench too!
I love watching a ref lose control......😀
Pook
Full Member
I know I don’t watch a load of football, but for the so called goat, Messi’s a cheating little shit isn’t he?
Yes.
In most of the world it's considered legit, even an art form.
See also Ronaldo, Suarez etc.
Oh ffs......
Argentina will go through ... Holland can't hold their nerve in penalty.
I hate watching penalties.
How did we get through all that without a red?
It’s going to be an England - Argies final isn’t it?
Gloating Brazilians and dishonest Argentinians both going out was too much to ask for 🙂
Modric v Messi.
I hope the Croatians win it outright.
Argies keeping it classy after scraping through on pens.
People forget that most of the Brazil and Argentina players come from extreme poverty and grow up playing in leagues where they get hacked down by big brutes. Those players are hard as nails which makes it ironic when they fall over when someone looks at them in a slightly squinted way
I really wanted Netherlands to win but alas ...
ElShalimo
Free Member
People forget that most of the Brazil and Argentina players come from extreme poverty and grow up playing in leagues where they get hacked down by big brutes
Don't care.
There's no excuse for shithousery.
Diving, faking injury, crowding the ref etc, all the signs of a genuine turd of a human being.
I agree they're twunts on the pitch but it's all gamesmanship, it's not because they're soft
Of course.
I'd still like to see some more reds for simulation and a ban on anyone apart from the Captain speaking to the ref. 🙂
Plenty of the African nations have noted poverty but they didn't resort to the same level of shithousery as Argentina.
When it comes down to out-and-out shithousery, the Argentines have only ever really been rivalled by Jose Morhino’s original Porto side in the champions league
And Ashley Young
Diving, faking injury, crowding the ref etc, all the signs of a genuine turd of a human being.
Nah, football would be very boring if it was a ‘gentleman’s game’.
Nah, football would be very boring if it was a ‘gentleman’s game’.
Really? Why?
It's about time Morocco & England get through tomorrow.
In terms of fighting spirits Morocco will have plenty like Croatia and I hope that will carry them through.
England need to have confident in themselves and I think this time they can do it.
binners
Full Member
When it comes down to out-and-out shithousery, the Argentines have only ever really been rivalled by Jose Morhino’s original Porto side in the champions leagueAnd Ashley Young
And Steve McMahon, John Terry, the snivelling little ball of puss that is Robbie Savage and of course, Joey Barton. 😀
None of those threw themselves on the floor when they lost the ball
And of course permanent grass magnets, Kane and Grealish aren't adverse to the odd exaggerated tumble.
ElShalimo
Free Member
None of those threw themselves on the floor when they lost the ball
Savage chucked himself on the floor if anyone breathed on him! When he wasn't kicking the opposition, bleating to the ref etc....
Caher
Full Member
And of course permanent grass magnets, Kane and Grealish aren’t adverse to the odd exaggerated tumble.
Er, sad but true...😀
McMahon didn't do it.
Savage was a joke of a player. A great example to kids that hard work and self belief will get you somewhere despite a complete lack of talent
Watch Griezmann later today - another fally over kind of player that is a graduate of the school of dark arts. Kicks like a mule but falls over when his eyebrows aren't perfect. I like Kounde though he's just rough, tough and nasty
Really? Why?
Because football is a bloody hard, physical and incredibly competitive game. If you take the aggression and competitiveness out of it, you remove its appeal.
It’s also tribal, and that is expressed on the pitch by the players using whatever advantage they can gain to beat their opponents. The supporters don’t give a shit about fair play, and by extension neither should the players. Winning is literally all that counts.
The refereeing in this WC has been a bit depressing, in the EPL recently we've seen a lot of the diving being ignored or punished, play being allowed to continue with physical stuff being allowed more.
It just seems like a step back, we are seeing a lot of play being stopped by Refs for players feigning injury that isn't a head injury, breaking up the game, stopping attacks and if they see it work once, they try it again and again.
Argentina yesterday were just horrific to watch with their play acting and trying to bully the ref, again i look at two games, first one you had Modric being central and clever, no messing about and leading his team, then you see Messi, falling about, moaning and basically showing his team how to play, his comments after as well just show his petulance, i wish these great players like him and Ronaldo could just go into later life of their career the way Modric has!
Couldn’t agree more. The refereeing in the EPL has made the games so much better. The football flows instead of stopping every minute because somebody has actually just put a challenge in on someone
From the opening minutes of that game when the ref blew for some minor brush against someone then started dishing inexplicable cards out, you could see the Argentines eyes light up and from that point onwards you could tell how they were going to play it.
Go down when anyone comes anywhere near you, stop the game at every opportunity and constantly harangue the ref into issuing more cards. It’s awful to watch and it’s sad that the worst offender is apparently the best player in the world. It’s pathetic!
Mind you, it’s not like he’s the first talented but snidey, cheating little shit they’ve idolised, is it? 😂
The main point is though that there’s no way that ref should have been officiating at a World Cup quarter final. He’d lost control within minutes and was clearly way out of his depth. The cards he was regularly dishing out were incomprehensible
Great little read amongst the themes of shithousery up there 👆
5 live have been hammering on how the winner of France England are the World Cup winners. Kane has a lot of slipping over to do first.
Funny thing about Messi is he seems dial up his harassment of the ref when he wears the Argentina shirt. He wasn’t like that for Barca.
Someone on Five Live did make me laugh by saying the most Engerland thing that could happen would be to beat France then go out to Morocco on penalties 😂
Because football is a bloody hard, physical and incredibly competitive game. If you take the aggression and competitiveness out of it, you remove its appeal.
That's not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying take out the pretending to be hurt and playing for free kicks. Get up and play the ****ing ball.
Winning is literally all that counts.
Disagree. At least, it shouldn't be.
That’s not what I’m suggesting. I’m saying take out the pretending to be hurt and playing for free kicks. Get up and play the **** ball
That’s exactly what’s been happening in the premier league all season as the refs aren’t having it any more. It’s improved the games massively. Hence the soft and naive refereeing of the World Cup feeling like a massive backward step and just playing straight into the hands of teams like Argentina and their blatant cheating ‘gamesmanship’
That ref yesterday should never have been officiating at this level
Wasn't there a suggestion that the video ref could watch incidents, as the game continued and restrospectively hand out a card if they were deemed to be faking?
Yes, but the ‘referees union’ comes into play and they hardly ever overrule an on-pitch decision for ‘a clear and obvious error’ unless it’s an offside or handball, as they’re easily provable by replay and (allegedly) not subjective
That ref was way out of his depth last night, right from the off, and getting ‘played’ more often than the ball by Argentina
Anyway… that would have made the game even more stop/start, which is exactly what Argentina were aiming to do with their ‘tactics’.
The problem wasn't the absence of cards, it was the fact that he was throwing them around like confetti, sometimes for absolutely inexplicable reasons. What would a game be like if VAR stopped play to tell the ref to rescind a yellow card? Then another? Then another?
Just get a ref who's actually equipped to cope with a game at this level in the first place
part of the issue is also that the best referees tend to come from the best nations in terms of leagues, we knock the EPL refs but there's possibly 5 or 6 that would justifiably be at the WC but our quota is 2. Same with Italy, Spain (I know the guy yesterday was Spanish, he was just poor) Germany, etc.
If you aren't refereeing these leagues and players regularly it can be a step up, you also don't have any rapport with the players themselves - the best refs are not just good extremely fit, great decision makers, etc., they are also great man managers where the right word at the right time can prevent a lot of what we saw yesterday. I suspect technically the ref last night is 'as capable', but could you imagine the players getting to that level with Collina - his presence and man management could have made exactly the same decisions and got a different response and acceptance.
Then of course the refs from the highest ranked nations, with the most experience of the highest level leagues and players are let go for the latter stages because you can't ref games where you could be felt to have influence, let alone direct control over the games your nation is involved in.
And last but by no means least - in the end it's a player decision to act as they did. Sure, the referee 'lost control' but no-one on playing, subs benches or coaching staff made any effort to diffuse or help him get it back. So it pains me when players then criticise the ref solely - admitting they don't have control over their own urges and emotions and need someone else to control them for them is toddler levels of weakness.
Yeah, he may have been a bit card-happy, but he's not in charge of players booting the ball at full volume into the subs bench, or the subs decision to charge on and start a ruck.
He should have pulled the pin and double yellowed Messi at this point:
🙂
Arguably Van Dijk should already have been hitting the showers by then.
Argentina realised very quickly that the ref was weak & persuadable. I haven’t seen a worse one for a long time..
But I also agree with player responsibility. Sadly football has never had that. When did you last see a captain or coach properly controlling his players.
The fun thing is that the ref for Croatia/Argentina will now be given express orders to be on the lookout for shithousery, and Croatia, being the wily chaps they are, will try to wind them up.
Argentina realised very quickly that the ref was weak & persuadable. I haven’t seen a worse one for a long time..
Can I respectfully agree and disagree.
He isn't a bad ref. He wouldn't be reffing the top games in the Spanish League, on the FIFA list and at the WC if he wasn't among the best. Presumably not all of his games deteriorate into that, or he wouldn't be at that level. The blame for last night's situation is entirely down to the players and staff of the teams.
OK, the agree bit. Somehow some refs would STILL have managed to handle it and get it to play out differently - they are truly exceptional either by man management or reputation (both go hand in hand obvs). That's not the same as saying last night's is a bad ref; he handled a tinderpot badly and it blew up, but he didn't cause it.
Go on, I DARE you.
But I also agree with player responsibility. Sadly football has never had that. When did you last see a captain or coach properly controlling his players.
You'd be surprised actually. Having reffed to a very low level, but also had the opportunity to shadow a senior mentor and then later an experienced (NL Ref / EFL assistant) at a few games - also last week they had an access all areas game Wycombe vs Portsmouth - the same message was given every time in every captains briefing at exchange of teamsheets.
What I used to say (at local league level) give or take.
"We're all here because we love the game and we want to be able to enjoy a hard but fair game today. You focus on playing, I'll do my job as best I can, and let's keep those two jobs separate. Look after your teams - you (captains) are first line of management. You know your players better than me, you decide how to manage them. If you don't then I will, first with a word but have no doubt if I need to take stronger action then I will"
You don't see the work a good captain does because it ends up invisible, you only see the likes of last night where the players, and presumably captains have failed in the first line of managing themselves.