soccerball 22/23, the WC hump season

Stevie G for definite, just due to the ridiculous expectations of Villa fans

I have a suspicion that you don't actually know any Villa fans. If you did, you'd know that our expectations run as far as the hope of bettering our performances of the last two seasons.

I'd say that was a reasonable rather than ridiculous expectation.

I personally haven't seen anything from Gerrard as a manager at Villa or elsewhere that makes me think that this expectation will be achieved and I personally doubt that he'll still be in charge come the end of the season.

Would love to be proved wrong on all counts.

Ralph Hassenhuttel to go first. Especially if they don’t pick
up a few wins given how they ended last season.

Gerrard won the league with Rangers but the football was pretty functional. Relied heavily on an excellent (that season) defence and Celtic having a shocker. He’s yet to do anything to suggest he’s the heir to Klopp.

Please, please, please let him be the heir to Klopp 😉

If you didn't listen to it live, then Nihal Arthanayake today on Five Live is well worth a listen on BBC Sounds.

Its discussing all the best things about going to the match other than the football, including Parmo's in a bun at Middlesborough, Benny and Hot at Burnley, pies, pre-match pints, ironic chants to crap players* and many of the other joys we all love

Its great! 😀

* I used to love the Zamora one at Fulham 'when you're sat in Row Z and the ball hits your head.... that's Zamora'

I'm sure he was aiming for row Z at the time but...

Lampard has a tough job at Everton so I could see that failing fast.

The comment above about somebody (Fernandes ?) Being the next Dele set me thinking. How is it that talented players suddenly become untalented? I mean proper useless, like Dele. I get the, 'I'm rich and can't be bothered' nasri/bale etc. I can get a change of team and the style just doesn't suit a player, I can get a player having a bad season, but how does someone do a Dele!? He hasn't been the only one. Torres was pretty spectacular in his fall from form. What is it? Drugs? What?
Wish we'd sold Dele 4 years earlier..... But then I couldn't foresee his fall from ability and would have been seething if levy had done.

Dele’s decline is an odd one, given his age. He should be in his prime right now. I suspect it’s a combination of things - confidence, motivation and tactics. His main strength seemed to be arriving in the box and getting on the end of things, bit like David Platt back in the day. And like Platt he’s not really that great at anything else which seems daft but I just don’t think he fits into the current trend of playing. Doesn’t seem to press much?

He could press, fit young lad not afraid to run or to be a dirty sh**. Remember his early days and attitude... Lucky to not be sent off a few times, or thumped by a more Ramos like player! He was also very good at very quick balls forward, usually to Kane.

Anyway, I hope he finds some confidence and a good fit somewhere again, he was fun to watch when playing well.

Next weekend will be a very different test for spurs.... Stamford bridge.

Aye you’re right - he did play with a chip on his shoulder. Odd he’s lost that.

We'll never see anything like this again

Anyway, I hope he finds some confidence and a good fit somewhere again, he was fun to watch when playing well.

His sole contribution for Everton on Saturday, when bought on as a sub, was a terrible first touch to a great through ball into the box, then he tripped over his own feet and fell over.

Everton and Man Yoo do now seem to be the clubs where careers go to die. I'm surprised we didn't buy him. Mind you, there's time yet. The windows still open, isn't it

Our transfer policy, if its true we've signed Marko Arnautovic, appears to now involve picking names out of a hat

Dele is pretty easy to explain tbh.

Young lad breaks into MK Dons team at early age. He is physically more mature than most 16/17yr olds so stands out with his peers and within the lower leagues. As a young lad he plays more first team football than 90% of kids at premier league teams.

He gets his early move to Spurs.

He quickly establishes himself in the Spurs side under Poch. He has the physical attributes to cope with Premier League football even though he is still growing and is really a kid. He becomes a mainstay of the team with the HIGEN press. Dele Alli as he is known then is the pivot of the press. He is the athelete who can cover most ground, is physically capable of putting himself about and mobile enough to get on the end of things. It works really well for 3-4 yrs and he has success with England too.

Now the issues. He was a young man when he came to spurs. He starts to mature. He starts to believe his own hype and starts holding the ball longer than he should and thinking he can be some kind of playmaker. Major major muscle issues hamper him. He was working at 110% without proper recovery or any consideration for what he was doing to his body. He starts to have longer and longer periods out with injury. Poch rushes him back from those injuries and plays him all the time he is available. Its a bad circle which just continues. His last 18mths under Poch he is a disaster. Poch goes.

This all coincides with major family issues. Dele removes any reference to Alli from his shirts. He is surrounded by ****ers and he starts getting himself into troubles at hotels etc.

Jose comes in as manager (Forget about the other guy). He tries a different approach. The hand on the shoulder doesnt work so Jose tries embarrassing Dele. Dele has NEVER been a good trainer, going in at 50%. He relies on his natural athletisism. Jose turns on him and Dele being a rich, injured, angry young man rebuffs it all. He gets worse and worse. Second season with Jose Dele actually went full pre season abroad with a fitness trainer trying to put everything right. He was absolutely 100% fit. He came back but his game had dissapeared. He had lost all his youthfull energy and was now a man, a strong man but much clumsier.

Dele downfall was Poch & Spurs. But then maybe if he had been held back the inevitable would be him failing anyhow. At least this way he got his time to shine early. Never know but he is paying the physical price of too much too soon imo.

Other major factors in Dele's decline are the loss of form and eventual transfer of Eriksen. He kept making the late runs in the box, but no-one ever looked up and picked him out.

Too much time spent on Fortnight.

Armed burglary at his home where he got assaulted.

Poch's intense training provided results on the pitch, but also took something from them. Dembele was broken. Dele has stated he can't train to the same intensity any more.

Tottenham playing a different system - he is very effective in one position only, and playing him anywhere else makes him look average.

People forget just how good he was. 16 goals in League 1 aged 17/18, 10 goals in the PL aged 18/19, 18 aged 19/20. More goals than Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes etc at that stage of their careers. Even in the Champions League semi, he got two assists for Lucas.

Shame he can't perform at this level any more, but sounds like he had a pretty bad upbringing so hope he's happy now.

Poch didnt break Dembele. He resurrected him. Dembele had similar major muscle issues BEFORE Poch got hold of him. His hips and groin issues were killing him, he always carried a few pounds and struggled with fitness. Poch was the only Spurs manager who managed to get him fit and keep him fit and actually convince him to move the ball quickly. 2 or 3 seasons he became the player he always should have been. Prior to that he was the same as Dele.

Dembele realised that he could only maintain that kind of fitness and remain injury free for so long and made a decision to quite before he did himself too much damage.

It’s reaching the point where I’ve run out of swear words and I’m inventing new ones to shout. Mainly aimed at the human scarecrow Harry ****ing Maguire. I’d he actually capable of movement? It would appear not.

The only consolation is that anticipating exactly the same utter shambles as last weekend, I stuck a few quid on a Brentford win

There’s still 60 minutes left for manu to get 4 😁

0-3 before halftime???? 😂😂 Dear lord….

Make that 4!!!!

Gonna be a long journey back up the 303 to Yeovil

Eriksen must be regretting moving for the money. Brilliant first half from Brentford.

I didn’t really think that it was possible to watch a United side that was even more of a clueless shambles than the one that finished last season

Turns out that was wildly optimistic

The entire club is a *ing joke! Not one of those players is fit to wear the *ing shirt!!

Ten Hag needs to be ****ing punching people in that dressing room, because that shitshow was absolutely inexcusable

At least they've got an easy home game next.

Indeed. We’ve got Liverpool next week. I think I’ll stick a bet on them getting into double figures

I didn’t really think that it was possible to watch a United side that was even more of a clueless shambles than the one that finished last season

Turns out that was wildly optimistic

Have to say, i honestly thought ManU with a few signings and a new manager could do well this season, i might be as wrong as you were.

Someone has to tell me how Eriksen has gone from being the centre forward one week to the defensive midfielder the following game, McTominay must be sat there thinking 'at least i'm not part of this nonsense' 😂

He’ll probably play him as a central defender next week. He’d be better than ****ing Maguire!

Apparently Brentford fans crucifying Erikson for moving to a smaller club 🤣

At least for ManU fans they didn't lose the second half 😁

It’s going to be ‘interesting’ to see how toxic it gets at OT a week on Monday for the Liverpool match. This feels like a real tipping point

from the bbc comments

Brentfords' Annual Wagebill is currently £16,834.000
Man Utd's Annual Wagebill is currently £202,785.000

As bad as united were, I think you have to credit Brentford for turning them over. Even last year they were a team who really gave the big boys a tough time, they were fantastic today, at least half the story of that match should be how good they were, just talking about united failings seams disrespectful to their performance. Any team would have been proud of that fourth goal, if that had been Harland, Nunez or Ronaldo slotting it away it would have been talked about as world class.

Brentford were absolutely brilliant! Played us off the park from start to finish.

They are a quality squad who played some superb football. Unlike us. They came with a well worked out game plan and executed it to perfection

They Displayed all the qualities we’re so obviously missing, in spades. I don’t think the final score reflected the game. It could/should have been 6

Every player who sported that bloody awful United third kit was an absolute disgrace. How they’ve got the front to keep picking up their obscene wages while delivering that shite is beyond belief

They eat lunch together now though AND turn up for training at the same time. Clearly ETH has a little more work to do……..

When do we begin to revise Ole’s record? Maybe he held them together! They’re worse since he left.

Sympathies and all that but Reading got a whipping from mighty Rotherham. At least Planet X will be happy.

binners

Brentford were absolutely brilliant! Played us off the park from start to finish.

They are a quality squad who played some superb football. Unlike us. They came with a well worked out game plan and executed it to perfection

They Displayed all the qualities we’re so obviously missing, in spades. I don’t think the final score reflected the game. It could/should have been 6

I'm in Brentford tomorrow visiting an old work mate, he's already sent me several very drunk WhatsApp messages, I'm guessing he's going to be a bit crispy tomorrow 😀

He did say he bloody loves ManU, not sure he meant it in affection! I'll report tomorrow how Bob feels.

Just watched it on MOTD. Oh dear.

Let's end the season now, while the mighty Tractor Boys are League One champions 🤣

So jealous of Liverpool getting to play United next. Start strongly and score a goal early doors and double figures is a real possibility.

@morecashthandash I was born not too far from Ipswich and have a WhatsApp group containing mates from home and one lone (Manchester born) Man U supporter. Yesterday we were all letting him know how we're looking forward to playing them in the Championship next season. Apparently were not the only ones giving it to him this weekend.

Also, as a Town fan I would love form someone to really turn Man U over and take the largest prem win record from them!

So jealous of Liverpool getting to play United next. Start strongly and score a goal early doors and double figures is a real possibility.

Could be one of those weird seasons where united somehow comes away with a 1-0 win out of 15% possession after Liverpool squander about 400 chances. 🙂

Just watched MOTD, Arsenal look good but I suppose the real story is the redemption of Granit Xhaka who was about to be dishonourably discharged couple of seasons ago.

Well that was a spikey finish to the Chelsea/Spurs game! Red cards for both managers 😳😂

I have an irrational hatred for spurs these days, they have so many annoying players and supporters, they deserved nothing out of that game today, only things I learnt are Chelsea need a front man, and VAR is a bit pointless these days

Yes given that Romero was clearly pulling the guys hair I can’t see why that isn’t a straight Red

Can I just point out that Forest are presently out of the relegation spots. Happy for the season to finish now.

23years, it's been too long. I have tickets to watch City v Forest, last time i saw that fixture was at Maine Road, and Ian Wright was playing for us and Shaun Wright-Phillips came on as a sub for City. With that first win I won't mind as much as my son lords it over me...  shame its not Man utd next.

Yeah, and the ref looking right at it as well, this isn't a whinge at the VAR technology, but the fact that it's just being used even more badly now, you have someone in a building somewhere in the UK playing referee on those decisions to see if they think the ref should look at it again, you've got assistant refs who now do nothing, just run up and down the line and are too scared to raise the flag in case they stop something VAR will catch, it just gets worse each year.

The rules and phases and so on are also getting more confusing, i actually prefer the old offside rule, i didn't at first when this new one came in, but it's just a farce now, how do you defend attackers when one can be way offside, and due to phases, you have to make sure you cover them, yet they're not interfering with play, or causing an obstruction, or whatever.

That was some finish for a centre back from Koulibaly

I still can’t believe Spurs managed to get a draw out of that today. Very un-Spursy

Hurrah for entitled Forest. Not only did HTFC get mugged by VAR in the playoff but then you get two of our best players who put in a performance for you today. Not bitter honest, just hoping you get your arses handed to you and come straight back down.

Also, as a Town fan I would love form someone to really turn Man U over and take the largest prem win record from them!

Eh, good point.

I live halfway between Nottingham and Derby, so the "banter" is quite lively locally and at work. Especially at the end of last season.

Forest fans go nuts when whoever is bottom of the Premier League get enough points for Derby to keep the record for lowest ever points total. As a neutral in this debate, I would love it - love it - if Forest **** up and take that record from Derby. (Which isn't going to happen.)

I would love for someone to really turn Man U over and take the largest prem win record from them!

Unfortunately, I think there’s a very real probability of that happening next match

If it does then I’m going into hiding

you get two of our best players who put in a performance for you today.

They really did! Toffolo shaped up after a shaky start at Newcastle, O'Brien has a huge amount of potential, they've really kicked on.

Forest fans go nuts when whoever is bottom of the Premier League get enough points for Derby to keep the record for lowest ever points total. As a neutral in this debate, I would love it – love it – if Forest **** up and take that record from Derby. (Which isn’t going to happen.)

Wonder if anyone is brave enough to put a bet on ManU taking that spot this season?