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I was always slightly disappointed with the New Labour years and then along came the death of Dr David Kelly and the war in Iraq. I see no reason to forgive Mr Blair and the others associated with the decision to go to war based on "sexed up" documents.
I was always slightly disappointed with the New Labour years and then along came the death of Dr David Kelly and the war in Iraq. I see no reason to forgive Mr Blair and the others associated with the decision to go to war based on “sexed up” documents.
It was an introduction to governing in the age of centrist politics for Labour, they were never going to live up to the hype machine that got them in power, but yeah there were a few significant disappointments. It still seems odd that people hold them to a higher standard in some areas than the Tories. By the time of the GE we'll be nudging a decade and a half of Tory rule. Love or loathe them they need a spell in opposition.
Hmm just caught the Penny Mo vid, it’s got spitfires and patriotic music.
Kinda hard to tell if real or a spoof tbh 🙂
You want to know why talking tax cuts are doomed at this level of electioneering?
Here:
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1546067198166401025?t=Ar0n_lixikPwly_NGEYarg&s=19
But it's time and time again this sound bite that sells.
Jeremy Hunt talking old school Tory bullshit but doing it well I'm afraid.
I didn't read that much of Murphy's points but this one stuck out for me:
For those of them who do not know, government spending is a key element in our national income. It is not money wasted. It is part of our national income. So, if they want to cut that part of our income, where do they think the replacement activity is going to come from?
Because whilst the anti-austerity argument was at least momentarily won during the Corbyn years I very much fear that with whoever becomes the next Tory leader austerity will once again rear its ugly head.
Already senior Tories commenting on the replacement for Johnson are talking about "hard" or "difficult" decisions which need to be made, as they prepare to sell austerity to the public. With the current Labour leadership incapable or unwilling to challenge the Tories's economic narrative I fear the worse.
The debt payments are quietly becoming a material burden – Rishi knows this is unsustainable so he ****ed off (he didn’t give a shit about Boris)
Never a problem for a government that issues its own currency - despite what they tell you.
The UK can never default in UKP.
It's a farce they tell you this. And it plays to old fashioned Tories. We do not operate like a household.
With the current Labour leadership incapable or unwilling to challenge the Tories’s economic narrative I fear the worse.
Completely, but when they see economy dives even more someone will have to offer up a realistic alternative.
There will ultimately be no choice. Not sure though where that road ends.
Neolibs are notorious for not recognising any other model or admitting there is another way.
So, if they want to cut that part of our income, where do they think the replacement activity is going to come from?
I think the Tories believe as always the commercial banks will lend and business will kick in - but given interest rates are rising they are putting the brakes on that too.
We really do have an economy bottle-necked at both ends with the Tories.
No real public sector spending and no private sector growth - what the hell do they think will happen?
And Labour stuck in exactly the same zone.
Tip: this is where all the progressive and great minds get together and map out what the country needs and how to resource it - then put people to work with the government paying wages for jobs that would not be created by the private sector.
No crowding out. Private sector will get their trickle down but from the state.
I quite enjoyed the drama before the resignation, but felt fairly glum after – things aren’t going to get much better
It has the potential to be far far worse. They’ll all have noted how our constitution, such as it is, is completely incapable of containing someone who wants to simply ignore it and do what the hell they like. Expect lots of that, whichever one of them gets the poisoned challace. That aspect of Johnson’s behaviour will continue uninterrupted.
They’ll all continue to pander to the ERG headbangers through fear of Farage, so the same ‘Brexit is Brilliant!’ Attitude to be maintained, more culture war shenanigans but all tied in with a far more right wing economic policy… corporate tax cuts and slashing the public sector even more
It’s too depressing for words. The senile old giffers that constitute the Tory membership will probably elect someone absolutely mental like Braverman… a concentration camp guard drawn by Ardman
The senile old giffers that constitute the Tory membership will probably elect someone absolutely mental like Braverman… a concentration camp guard drawn by Ardman
Dunno, Rishi seems the best fit for that:
https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2022-02/da7b91d0-8f5b-11ec-bfcd-6ab66b5f969 d" alt="" />
I see great britsish democracy is in action, Hunt and Javid have both decided to rule out a scottish independence ref for 10 years, in order to score some points with the 0.29% of the uk population who get to decide the new pm, of whom around 10% are in scotland.
(latest estimates are that half of all tory members are over 60, 97% are white, 55% are from the south of england, and 71% are male, and that the 60% increase in members of the last 3 tears is overwhelmingly brexit- and boris- supporting)
Oh FFS!
https://mobile.twitter.com/opiniumresearch/status/1545845791188713472
Fieldwork 6-8 July, right at the height of the Tory crises when Tory ministers were publicly denouncing and turning against their own leader.
A 5% lead for an opposition party is what might be expected under normal midterm conditions, and no reason why a governing party should be unduly worried.
Other recent polls give Labour comfortable double digit leads but I'm not sure if the fieldwork was carried out before Johnson announced his resignation. The Opinium one covers the most recent period.
I believe that Opinium's methodology might be different to some other pollsters as where there are examples of previous Tory voters saying that they will not be voting Tory but not declaring support for another party, Opinium are assuming that come a general election they will probably vote Tory as they haven't declared support for any other party. A reasonable assumption imo as they obviously don't feel strongly enough to declare support for another party. I guess time will tell who has the best methodology.
And imo this is the problem - it's not that the Tories are popular, it's that people are struggling to see a credible and convincing alternative. "We are not members of the Tory Party" has its obvious appeal but it also has its obvious limitations, especially when voters are being reassured "don't worry it's safe to vote for us, we have fundamentally the same policies as the Tories. Maybe. We haven't decided what are policies are yet".
I want a time machine to take me back to 1997 when it felt jolly nice to live in the UK. Thank goodness I’m soon off.
Isn't this what every generation says, i don't remember 1997 as being that much of a glory year, or time to envy, just the same stuff in a different period, same with all the talk about how we're behind everyone in Europe, again that's not exactly true, and almost all nations have just as much baggage as we do, or even more.
As someone above said, the problem isn't really the tory party, its the opposition. There's no way that Labour can win with its shitshow view on brexit. Spineless counts are so busy courting the 10% of their supporters that wanted Brexit that they've lost a huge proportion of the rest. And given our shit voting system that just hands it to the tories.
Liz Truss has entered the race, let the comedy commence 😂
There’s some serious brainboxes in the mix now.
Talking of which, Jeremy Hunt says if he wins he will appoint Esther McVey as deputy leader as - and he actually said this - the Prescott to his Blair
He thinks she appeals to northern voters. I’m going to say that Jeremy has never actually met any northern voters if he thinks Esther McVey is what we’re all crying out for
Who the hell is Rehman Chishti? And why am I already certain he will make a better PM than all the ones I've heard of?
argee
Full Member
Liz Truss has entered the race, let the comedy commence
Yes, thinking the same thing, this is what I've been waiting for!
Many comedy gold moments to come.👍
So, Javid says he'd overturn the NI hike which was brought in to raise NHS funds. Interesting move from a former health secretary. Truss says she'll do the same. Of course both strongly defended the policy when Johnston was in power, with Truss saying it was "obviously needed" and Javid saying it was "essential for the NHS's future"
Truss says "colleagues know I mean what I say" but also that she's "led the way on making the most of the uk's new found freedoms outside the EU", while not being able to give any examples.
Rehman Chrishti is the Mp for Gillingham, he had to apologise a couple of years back for taking donations from a developer he later granted some planning permission. I can't recall the exact details right now.
By undeniable you mean you dont want questioning on it?
A bit like when a colleague said "you can't deny that the Tories are known for economic competence".
I said "by who"?
He was then actually unable to provide any evidence that couldn't be batted away by a quick Google.
Utter marketing bollox.
I was always slightly disappointed with the New Labour years and then along came the death of Dr David Kelly and the war in Iraq. I see no reason to forgive Mr Blair and the others associated with the decision to go to war based on “sexed up” documents.
Based on that then, you'll never be voting Conservative due to the litany of 'offences' during the last 12 years - or are they 'different'?
Jeremy Hunt talking old school Tory bullshit but doing it well I’m afraid.
He's pledged to bring back foxhunting.
It's nice to have a Tory so in touch with modern day issues. Every morning when I wake up my first thoughts are not the cost of living, social care, the climate crisis and so on, it's definitely that I'm no longer allowed to gallop my horse through the countryside killing small animals...
Good job we left the EU to not be ruled by unelected officials 🙂
Rehman Chrishti is the Mp for Gillingham, he had to apologise a couple of years back for taking donations from a developer he later granted some planning permission.
Ah, OK. The best candidate will be the one whose shady dealings I haven't learned about yet. Bunch of crooks and charlatans.
The best candidate will be the one whose shady dealings I haven’t learned about yet.
At least his fellow candidates will be trying their best to make sure you are fully informed as opposed to the normal coverup.
@willard :
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-fox-hunting-ban-repeal-tories-leadership-countryside-a8987406.html
What's a lot more worrying is this:
https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/politics/how-would-you-like-your-government-right-far-right-or-batshit-crazy/
What could possibly go wrong if everyone is pitching to a small, hard-right bunch of bitter pensioners? You can only hope that at least a couple of the candidates are doing a bait and switch because it's the only way to get the job. But no, they're probably all nutters.
People are rightly pointing out that the Penny Mordaunt video means we are beyond parody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T72TopWbXJg
These campaign videos cannot be taken seriously....can they?!
The Day Today has increasingly felt like a blueprint for the future, not satire.
Given the rightwing dutch auction playing out in the media how long before people are begging Johnson to stay? It's either a major cockup by labour to enable this lurch rightwards with their own shift, or a masterstroke as they know any incoming PM won't have time to do half of this stuff before the next election.
All I know we're beginning to look even more like the US, where the timidity and cowardice of the Democrats have allowed libertarian fruitloops to do as they please.
What could possibly go wrong if everyone is pitching to a small, hard-right bunch of bitter pensioners?
If you want to verify yourself, flick Five Live on now. They've got Tory members phoning in to say who they've voting for and why
be afraid
be very very afraid
EDIT: However, someone has just made the following statement:
Choosing one of this lot is like choosing a portaloo on the third day of a festival 😂
All I know we’re beginning to look even more like the US, where the timidity and cowardice of the Democrats have allowed libertarian fruitloops to do as they please.
There's an element of that but also the fact that the Republicans have stacked the deck in their favour - putting their pick of judges into Supreme Court, Stripping out perfectly working organisations and restocking them with "their" staff (they did this with National Parks staff, moving older people around to force their retirement and filling the posts with folk sympathetic to Republican interests, anti-public land, climate-change deniers etc to make it easier to develop National Park resources or prevent education about climate change).
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/10/us-national-parks-dismantling-under-way
Same here - Tories have already tried to dismantle lots of our institutions and doing it piecemeal under the guise of privitisation or "efficiency savings", it's very difficult to fight back against that.
It's fun to blame the opposition for not doing things they're not in a position to do. But it's pretty obvious what has facilitated a slide further right in the Tory Party, and given them a longer period in office with the power to take the checks and balances away... voters supporting Boris Johnson and Brexit.
It’s fun to blame the opposition
In 2017 and 2019 the tories fought campaigns which never mentioned austerity. Quite he opposite in fact. Why was that? Now that Starmer and his idiot shadow chancellor are preaching the mantra of 'balancing the books', the new crop of tory wannabes are perfectly comfortable talking about sweeping cuts in public spending. It's not a coincidence.
Why was that?
Because they were promising sunlit uplands. No need for austerity because the good times were coming. Brexit was the answer, not the problem, at that point. Neither May nor Johnson stopped austerity though, even if they were selling their party on different priorities. Look at local government funding, and the effects of the continued spending constraints there. Got a job in the public sector? How have your pay awards been handled in that time?
Now that Starmer and his idiot shadow chancellor are preaching the mantra of ‘balancing the books
TBF to them, this is a problem faced by all Labour candidates. Lots of the voting public have been told (by the right wing press) and now believe- without having to see any evidence to the contrary that Labour = spending that cannot be afforded. It's been a necessity for labour opposition leaders to have spending plans itemised in a way that's simply not true for the Tories since for ever.
Not got a problem with labour saying 'this is how we'll pay for things', even if it is a load of bollocks. However will they come out against this new wave of austerity the tories are intent on imposing? Starmer's making a speech this morning, a perfect opportunity to set out his stall against austerity and create clear water between himself and the tory headbangers. I think we all know what will happen though.
If you're hoping that Starmer is going to become the opposition leader that he clearly isn't. I think you're going to be disappointed.
Its like choosing what STD you'd like to get.
However will they come out against this new wave of austerity the tories are intent on imposing?
I just dont see how this is in any way a realistic policy for the government to maintain
The energy price risis due in the autumn and the further inflation it will cause is going to result in riots if the government dont start properly helping people
id take anything said in these leadership campaigns with a bucket full of salt
Starmer’s making a speech this morning, a perfect opportunity to set out his stall against austerity and create clear water between himself and the tory headbangers. I think we all know what will happen though.
Yeah, we're going to get a return to the Gordon Brown days of "sensible frugal policies" except this time with the added fun of "making Brexit work".
Which is kind of like making square wheels on a car work. Yes, it can be done but it's still a spectacularly shit idea.
Although I'm willing to bet that the Lib Dem version will involve paying for it all by adding a penny to income tax. That's been their policy since as far back as I can remember...