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And maybe get a car she feels more involved driving and so less likely to ‘drift off’. i.e. large alloys/low profile tyres, good steering feedback, manual instead of auto, lower to the ground.
But that will probably all be built around a quick engine...
If this isn't a troll (and chapeaux if it is), and the comments about stopping driving fall on deaf ears, I'd be trying to find the smallest, lightest, most underpowered car with the best visibility I could find. Fiat Panda, Nissan Note, Toyota Yaris Verso. 1.0 litre obviously.
That's some track record - and you don't appear to have taken any action to stop it.
In my view that makes you complicit.
If she continues driving without any training, education or other intervention and there is a 'next time' which results in injury or death will you be able to deny any responsibility?
I'm with TJ^^^ and that's a rarity; it's criminal behaviour and all you're concerned is what car to get.
Get a grip.
If it’s true, OP’s wife ain’t cut out for driving. Not all of us can be driving Gods. I’d be looking at other options.
...but it’s not true. Nobody would post that subject here ‘cos you know the reaction, plus the immediate default to a Zafira seems odd. Unless it’s a punishment for the wife.
it’s amazing how selfish and self centred car ownership makes people.
it's a privilege not a right and can be revoked by the state at any time. are you going to wait until somebody loses a life or receives life changing injuries before you do something other than posting on an internet forum for advice? because that suggests you don’t think it serious enough to act.
“my wife might kill somebody, not sure what to do?”
the fact you view this as a fiscal and material matter rather than a human one is indicative of the ingrained car culture that prevails in the uk.
But that will probably all be built around a quick engine…
not necessarily - you mention a Panda - the 100Hp Panda is suppossed to be great fun but it is not uber-powerful. Fiat 500 also.
When I got my Alfa GT I drove a 16 inch alloyed car, a 17, and an 18. The 16 seemed too divorced from the road and therefore not as easy to drive slow, the 18 was too rough a ride, and the 17 was just right. My Giulietta is 18 but the suspension is better, so about the same.
Actually driving fast and feeling like you are driving fast are two different things.
Actually I drive the 230Bhp Giulietta slower than my 170Bhp GT I just got rid of.
also, let her choose the car and get a car she 'loves' - then she won't want to crash it - maybe...
That’s some track record – and you don’t appear to have taken any action to stop it.
In my view that makes you complicit.
Actually I drive the 230Bhp Giulietta slower than my 170Bhp GT I just got rid of.
Neither of those cars needs more than 35bhp to do 70mph.
The 16 seemed too divorced from the road and therefore not as easy to drive slow,
I love the bollocks spouted on car threads on this forum.
Anyhow OP, a "cavalier" attitude is worrying in this context. Good luck with addressing the issue without provoking a divorce. I was in Surrey on a bike not so long ago, the vast majority of drivers seemed to be driving around perfectly safely, thanks to all those that took care around me.
If she crashes a lot then getting an abnormally big car just means that she is more likely to kill someone else.
I don't think the op or his wife are worried about that. This is about money. People are getting distracted here and failing to answer his question. Stop worrying about who she is going to kill, neither of them are concerned about that.
I rather think the whole post may just be a bit of wind up to get everyone frothing at the mouth and searching the barn for the pitchfork.
Nico - would your reaction change if Mrs OP took out a member of your family?
TLDR
New patio for you and the wife. Muppets
Neither of those cars needs more than 35bhp to do 70mph.
*to maintain a constant 70mph on a flat road. Is sitting on a motorway with your car near the red line for hours on end good for a) the engine b) the fuel economy (and therefore environment)
I have a Panda 1.2l dynamic with a mighty 60bhp. It's nowhere near the red line at legal motorway cruising speeds, on a hill or otherwise.
Nico – would your reaction change if Mrs OP took out a member of your family?
"Take out" in which sense?
I don't think I'd be particularly chuffed if anybody killed or injured a member of my family, or anybody else for that matter, yet it happens on the roads, though more at the hands of young men who think they are driving gods than tired women. The OP is probably in a witness protection scheme as we speak in reponse to the number of posters* ignoring his request for information on the Vauxhall Zafira and piling in to give him a good kicking for not implementing old school Saudi law in his part of Surrey.
* most of whom haven't driven a Zafira and seem to think it went out of production ten years ago.
My missus is pretty much at the opposite end of the driving spectrum, the general aggression and ****ery on the roads has caused her to drive less and less in recent years, to the point where I think the's maybe driven once in the last six months...
She has always had a healthy respect for a cars potential to kill or injure, unfortunately that has now developed into an almost complete refusal to use one.
She's aware of the issue and has recently been talking about booking refresher lessons, to rebuild her confidence, and getting a second smaller car just for her to use, as she doen't like driving the big stupid family MPV we currently own (neither do I TBH). I'm not sure it's going to do the trick because it's as much an issue of the general environment she's got to drive in as her own cautious nature...
The thing is she's right, Cars bring out the worst in many people and powerful motors coupled with the wrong temperament are increasingly dangerous on the roads and it's not really being challenged, it's now the norm IMO/IME.
I don't want her to drive everywhere all the time, but by the same token I don't want to be driving her places when she could drive herself simply because she's been intimidated off the roads by dangerous drivers like the OP's missus.
So either look at how to adjust her attitude/behaviours, or get her off the road for everyone else's sake, if not your bank balance...
Can’t believe no one’s suggested this yet.....
What are you on about, AJW? Whether a car is 230 or 170bhp it still only needs 35bhp to do 70bhp and neither will anywhere near the red line. As for the fuel economy, it's small tubocharged engines with fairly low maximum outputs that get the best economy amongst ICE cars. I drive an EV so all that is irrelevant.
How does your wife drive with you in the car, OP? Madame's driving is smooth and reassuring so I generally fall asleep.
Get someone to hit her from behind and see how she likes it. You could even watch if you wanted to
*to maintain a constant 70mph on a flat road. Is sitting on a motorway with your car near the red line for hours on end good for a) the engine b) the fuel economy (and therefore environment)
Well if someone is worried about the environment they are hardly likley to be driving around in a car are they.....
TurnerGuy
The 16 seemed too divorced from the road and therefore not as easy to drive slow,
For the love of god, this is probably the stupidest thing I've read on here for a long time. Less right pedal, more middle pedal. Nothing to do with the size of your alloys.
I love the bollocks spouted on car threads on this forum.
ok, so let's draw a comparison to mtbs...
have you never heard someone saying how much faster they can ride on a 29er compared to a 26, how it flattens everything out?
Well that's what I was saying with the tyre size, the less rubber, the more you feel the road and the more feedback you get from it. So the more feel you get, the slower you are likely to drive.
And if you are looking for bollocks posts, just look back at your posting history...
You're on the wrong forum and on the wrong thread for your petrolhead nonsense, Turnerguy. Look at the post directly above your last one from dashed, it's not just me who finds your petrolhead contributions unhelpful.
Put your rally jacket on and find some pub at an X-pack meet with a load of Clarkson fans propping up the bar, you'll fit right in.
The OP's wife needs advice on driving safely and courteously rather than bla bla about alloy wheel sizes which frankly won't change how she drives. (this may not be entirely true, a lowered BMW "M" with stif Bilsteins on low profile run flat's might slow her down and keep her awake due to the shaking and banging - you see I can post bollocks but only for a laugh)
TurnerGuy earlier today, about to drive down to Lidl for some nice pastries
You’re on the wrong forum and on the wrong thread for your petrolhead nonsense, Turnerguy.
I was giving advice on what I find makes a car easier to drive at slower speeds, that addresses the subject matter of this post. What's your problem?
My ex had a bog standard clio - she used to drive round regularly approaching 40, whereas I'm driving around under 30 in towns without having to think about it, I can concentrate on looking out for hazards instead of having to concentrate on keeping my speed down.
Not sure what is petrolhead about that.
How about a Dacia Logan MCV? Nobody with a ounce of self respect would dare to go out and be seen in one of those. Thus she stops driving. Problem solved.
Turnerguy - that works for those of us that are concentrating on what the car is doing and are driving it hard for fun. A 2CV is fun at lower speeds than a porsche simply because the fun comes when you reach its limits. But a 2cv is less safe for the same road speed as the posrche because of its crap skinny tyres
It doesn't work for those who treat a car as a thing to take you places and do not concentrate
Nothing to do with the size of your alloys.
LOLZ.
It doesn’t work for those who treat a car as a thing to take you places and do not concentrate
yes it does, that's why I am saying it - the point is to not concentrate on what the car is doing as you don't need to, you can concentrate on other things.
I fell asleep at the wheel driving back from Key West, luckily managed to control the car and get it back up onto the road before spinning round multiple times in the central partition.
Since then I am keenly aware of keeping my concentration in the car - there's a can a Monster if I really need it and I am now on my 4th Alfa since then precisely because I want the car to be more involving to keep me attentive.
Had to by an older Giulietta to get a manual box as that increases the interaction with the car, and I wouldn't buy a diesel also because the interaction is less than with a petrol engine.
I can concentrate on looking out for hazards instead of having to concentrate on keeping my speed down.
I fell asleep at the wheel driving back from Key West, luckily managed to control the car and get it back up onto the road before spinning round multiple times in the central partition.
Since then I am keenly aware of keeping my concentration in the car – there’s a can a Monster if I really need it
difficult to tell if this is a piss take or not......
I am now on my 4th Alfa since then precisely because I want the car to be more involving to keep me attentive. Had to by an older Giulietta to get a manual box as that increases the interaction with the car
I think the OP troll is now being trolled by TG.
Please tell me you never venture north of Birmingham. I really don't want to drive or ride on any roads with you on them.
I wouldn’t buy a diesel also because the interaction is less than with a petrol engine
never mind...
The person that wrote that has obviously never driven a Landy or an old van. Lots of interaction on those diesels, mainly fixing them.
Has the op been run over on his drive by the wife?
Latest page is turning in to some classic stw, keep it going!
Oh and fwiw I'd rather walk than drive round in a car with 35 brake.
I fell asleep at the wheel driving back from Key West
16" wheels?
I am now on my 4th Alfa
Uh-oh. Don't tell me, tired and cavalier?
We just call them "killer wheels" around here
Has the op been run over on his drive by the wife?
Essentially this means we’re going to have to buy an old Vauxhall Zafira. Need the space and extra seats for when grandparents come to stay.
Can you sleep easily in a Zafira?!
I fell asleep at the wheel driving back from Key West16″ wheels?
A mitsubishi eclipe coupe I think - horrible wallowy suspension - tipped into a snaking motion real easily as I found out when the guy next to me wanted to come into my lane on the freeway.
It was late coming back and the radio wasn't working, ex was asleep in the back seat, and the road back from key west is sooo long and straight and boring - you are advised to put your headlights on even in daylight.
Luckily the side of the road had changed to a gravelly/rocky surface and that woke me up, and then the car started snaking badly and skidding as I had hit the brakes, but luckily I managed to keep it out of the trees and got it back on to road. I knew that I wasn't meant to die yet but had to stay around so I could come and spout sh1t on this forum and annoy you lot...
We had just done a corporate day out quad biking and drifting these dune-buggy things round a gravelly track, if I hadn't have done I wouldn't have been able to counter the skid as I am not a petrolhead 🙂
Did a skid pan course when I got back.
35bhp
Says the man with 148...
What are you on about, AJW? Whether a car is 230 or 170bhp it still only needs 35bhp to do 70bhp and neither will anywhere near the red line.
sorry, I misunderstood - I thought you were advocating buying a hugely under-powered car as anything above is not necessary for a motorway cruise.
As it seems Mrs OP is crashing through inattention rather than powersliding off a roundabout, I agree with you that the percentage of available power used to cruise on the motorway is irrelevant.
I fear that the OP and his wife are trapped in a ditch after another session of spirited driving
Impressive work, STW, keep it up.
Maybe OPs wife should get an MX5. They're cheap, they're refreshing (roof down) they're involving to drive and you'd feel vulnerable in it so you'd keep your eyes peeled
Can you sleep easily in a Zafira?!
Dunno, never spent enough time in one as a passenger. I did start to drop off in a long w/b Transit once, but that was after a very long day, and it scared me shitless!
As a passenger, I used to regularly drop off in the back of the team car, stretched across the two back seats of a 7-seat Kia, then its replacement, a Grand Picasso. Never could sat upright though. I can barely get into the two rearmost seats of a Zaffie, they’re basically for a couple of small kids.
Anyway, the issue appears to be less to do with the car’s performance, than it is the performance of the individual driving it.
As the OP needs a family car, a diesel Zaffie looks like the best, most cost-effective option, as there are loads about, and, in my opinion, having driven many hundreds of miles in loads of them, they’re really comfy.
Having got that out of the way, the most important issue needs to be addressed, and that’s the shonky driving of the individual who keeps trashing cars, and getting her put onto a driving refresher course would seem to be the best way to go about it - having a professional assess her driving, highlight her faults and flaws, and get them sorted out, for her safety, and that of other road users!
God knows I’m no ‘Driving God’™ © ®, I leave that to the Surfmatts of this world, but the nature of my work over the last three years has required me to be a safe and competent driver, I’m driving other people’s cars, often worth a lot of money, and need to behave accordingly, and in this case, it’s entirely down to the behaviour of the driver where the problem lies, nothing to do with whatever she’s driving, that’s very much a red herring.
As well as refresher lessons etc, next car she gets, fit a taxi type dashcam that records a front view and the inside of the car then you can review what happens in any accidents or near misses and what she's doing at the time - if she's doing stuff like messing around on a phone or drifting off due to tiredness you'll be able to see. If it is things like using a phone then hopefully the fact the cam will be recording her will put her off doing this, or any other distracting habits
I think she needs a Googlecar active 360' roof mounted camera so she can prove to the insurance co ( and husband/ all of STW ) that she is an actual car magnet and gets harpooned by random vehicles as she drives sedately down the road at below the speed limit.
OP,
Sorry, but she needs to get some driver training. Fark - had too many injuries caused by sh1t drivers.
I don't cycle on roads any more... after 30 years of road. MTB is far safer smashing down hills...
MG Midget? When it works she'll be pretty attentive with the weather coming in everywhere and that everything is within 2 inches and threatening.
Cheap, Safe and Electric.
yesss , Low emission EV . Zero car tax, No congestion charge , whats not to like?
Real bumpers that wont crack when ' touch parking' . No pesky A pillars to create blind spots .
Superb find.
This one has room in the back for the grandparents
PS OP - you are lucky..
My 'dodgy builder' neighbour (he's not a real qualified builder) has a wife that smashes up any car they have - usually Zaffiras... they look 'smashing' for a week, then are 'smashed'...
They have finally bought a Toyota Verso that works, and seams to 'magically' avoid obstacles at present..
His missus is a nightmare - drives the kids two roads down to drop them off... less than 1/4 mile...
@mikewsmith - those things are unsafe in the wrong hands. 2 tonnes of batteries and box section steel make them a very slow but robust battering ram
Guy I knew 'back in the day' was working as a Unigate milkman and got a bit overconfident driving the floats - managed to tip one over with a full load trying to drift it round a corner (no, me neither - I think it was icy). They gave him a three wheeler one as punishment as they were even slower and really horrible to drive.
it’s a privilege not a right and can be revoked by the state at any time.
Possibly it was at some point in the past, but now it seems pretty much a right hence the people driving around with 20+ points who just plead necessity and get to keep their license after each offence.
We have developed into a car dependant society where people live miles from work and miles from schools and lack of decent public transport options makes cars pretty much essential outside of London.
Just look at the backlash over the fuel tax riser which has been put on hold for years now as it's deemed politically unacceptable to penalise drivers.
thisPossibly it was at some point in the past, but now it seems pretty much a right
imagine how much better life would be if the driving test was made significantly harder, retests, psychological elements, etc, plus enforcement/bans were actually deployed. There'd be half the number of cars on the road so no congestion, virtually no accidents, excellent public transport, infrastructure would be totally redesigned around people rather than vehicles, people might actually want to walk/cycle rather than drive.
the people driving around with 20+ points who just plead necessity and get to keep their license after each offence
These people boil my piss. I quite like having a licence hence why I drive in a way that means it has no points on it. If you NEED it then drive more sensibly you dicksplash. A bit of hardship might make people realise what wazzocks they really are.
I think there are broadly two types of drivers:
1) Those who engage with driving, and whilst driving make it their priority. These people take an interest in cars, probably like driving, maintain their vehicles well, understand how they work, concentrate, and put effort into driving well, having good hazard perception and forethought. They probably also understand road law, the basic physics of driving and are generally aware.
2) Those for whom driving is a necessary activity. These people just need to get somewhere, are most worried about other people's perception of them/their car rather than how it actually functions, and are usually engaged in some other activity whilst on the road. That might be texting, talking on the phone, doing their make up, fiddling with the radio, chatting with passengers, whatever. These people are scary to travel with, but usually very sociable types, gesturing with their hands, cracking jokes, looking around, generally not being on the ball - fine in a pub.
I'd seriously recommend you get your wife some additional driver training. I did my trailer test a couple of years ago, just over 10 years since I passed my driving test and I have to say the training provided, and discussion with the examiner were really informative, and eye opening, it was a good refresher as much as anything, but laws and techniques change.
On a tangent, was talking to someone who works in the insurance industry the other day - they were telling me that people who had attended driving awareness courses (to avoid points/fine) were at one stage actually getting premium reductions if they declared the course, despite it being implicit that they had caused an offence to end up there.
I think you missed Type 3
The ones who think they are Type 1 but have no regard for other road users, they might be concentrating on driving but doing it in dangerous ways - see habitual; speeders, tailgaters, red light gamblers etc.
the people driving around with 20+ points who just plead necessity and get to keep their license after each offence.
This isn't true, if you've got 20+ points it's because most would have been accumulated in more or less one hit. If you get 12 points or more and claim extreme hardship you get a 12mnth ban not the 6mnths for subsequent offences. It was made quite clear to me by my solicitor and the court that extreme hardship couldn't be claimed again untill all the points I had were spent.
This isn’t true, if you’ve got 20+ points it’s because most would have been accumulated in more or less one hit.
From Guy Martins Wikipedia:
By late 2011 he had accrued 21 penalty points on his standard UK driving licence, having been caught speeding several times in his Transit van. He avoided a driving ban when on 18 points, being given another three in lieu of a ban, after the judge showed leniency due to the effect it would have on his livelihood, had he lost it.[
I think there are broadly two types of drivers:
Was your sample size 2, with one in each category?
Those for whom driving is a necessary activity. These people just need to get somewhere, are most worried about other people’s perception of them/their car rather than how it actually functions, and are usually engaged in some other activity whilst on the road.
For example, I'll think you'll find there are plenty of people that fit the above description, and couldn't care less about other people's perception.
It did cross my mind on Type 3, I agree.
For what it's worth I had an at fault accident about 18 months ago, writing off both vehicles (fortunately no injuries), and then got 6 points for using my phone a couple of months later, both events were totally out of character (no, really, I never used my phone before, and had actually already pulled over anyway when the unmarked car pulled up behind me). This was all just prior to my relationship of over a decade ending; my stress levels, lack of concentration, decision making ability and general mental state weren't great during that period of time and all contributed to both incidents as far as I'm concerned, my mind was just elsewhere. For me it really highlights that we ought not to be driving a lot of the time as our ability can be impaired for so many reasons, and the consequences can be so dire. All good on the driving front since, touch wood.
Those for whom driving is a necessary activity. These people just need to get somewhere, are most worried about other people’s perception of them/their car rather than how it actually functions
3. People who spout crap like the above.
OP does your wife have any undiagnosed medical conditions that make her tired. Maybe a trip to the doctor could help. She may also have spacetual awareness problems.
By late 2011 he had accrued 21 penalty points on his standard UK driving licence, having been caught speeding several times in his Transit van. He avoided a driving ban when on 18 points,
The way it works (as explained to me) is once you commit an offence that gets you to 12 or more the matter has to be dealt with by the courts. In my case I committed the offence that would give me 12 points at the beginning of December. I didn't go to court until August of the following year and until then I could continue to drive. Any offences committed untill I went to court were held in abayance until then. So 12,15,18 ect could all be accumulating. But once dealt with and your allowed to drive with 18 or whatever points you couldn't go back to court and plead extreme hardship the second time, not until the points were spent.
If this does happen it's not how things were explained to me.
it’s not how things were explained to me
this.
It's explained here, including the not twice and points being spent.
Nico
core
Those for whom driving is a necessary activity. These people just need to get somewhere, are most worried about other people’s perception of them/their car rather than how it actually functions3. People who spout crap like the above.
*People who have had a different experience to you. I have had the misfortune to sit with several of these types of drivers. You haven't, fine, that doesn't make it crap.
Readers, we bought a used Zafira this afternoon.
With the kids in the middle row, hopefully my offspring relatively safe.
Stay safe and beware a brunette beauty flooring it on the 217.
Alex
So you bottled having a proper chat about how she has crashed 5 cars?
The only way to stay safe is if your Mrs is off the road.
Only two cars to my knowledge - 4 if you include the other guys'.
No, we talked about it. That and her 9 points.
This 'take her diving licence off her / I wouldn't get in that car / medical condition / privilege not a right' chat is unrealistic and misses the point:
1. Where we live and how her work and our lifestyle is set up she just has to drive.
2. It's basically carelessness born of being a narcissist about her own ability and getting woken up 5 times a night by the kids.
Don't get me wrong, I'm cross. But it is what it is.
Any way, thanks for the thoughts Gents!
It’s basically carelessness born of being a narcissist about her own ability and getting woken up 5 times a night by the kids.
Well let’s hope the next accident she has isn’t a fatality and the above doesn’t end up being read out at an inquest or a trial...
Only 2 cars ah **** it thats fine
Maybe 3 strikes and your out?
& hopefully the kids start sleeping through soon or maybe you could get up a bit more.
1. Where we live and how her work and our lifestyle is set up she just has to drive.
2. It’s basically carelessness born of being a narcissist about her own ability and getting woken up 5 times a night by the kids.
Yep classic I'm more important than other people, nobody has to drive, nobody has to drive tired - you are both making conscious choices to do that, in a way it's a bit like the landlord who serves the drunk drivers, you know what is going to happen but you turn the blind eye.
Yeah, I got sympathy for the OP but this is not something to shrug off.
A217 Brighton Road?
That's fine. I'm never going to go near that.
I shall wait to read about her in the Daily Mail. Good luck.
1. Where we live and how her work and our lifestyle is set up she just has to drive.
Thats an excuse for criminal behaviour?
You really need to get real here. something has to change before she kills someone. Incredible levels of entitlement here and a shining example of why car driving should be much more tightly regulated