[Closed] So the double dip starts here.....

Had not noticed the first dip going. It just seems like we are looking into a deeper hole, hope we don't go in it.

Lionhert - the numbers for growth don't lie. We came out of recession under labour - we appear to be heading back into it under the tories. Teh much predicted double dip from too savage cuts to quickly contracting the economy.

It never un-dipped for me, hence one more small business in the bin and one more mature student back at uni.

its quite impressive how osborne and cameron have kept their faces out of the news lately and letting cable and clegg absorb all the muck

not sure if the lib dems arent being well and truly rogered by the coalition

[img] [/img]

hth x

Surely it started the minute that the new Government came in to power. Simply a matter of the lag between action (cutting everything) and reaction (loads more people added to the unemployed roster, everyone terrified of spending money. If they have any).

Double dipping is simply social death at parties, you wouldn't catch me doing it.

Depressing reading no matter who's to blame.

The number of economists on here is amazing, considering it's come as a suprise to them [the real ones] it would suggest that the original plans were fine. As per that document, taking the cold weather snap out would have seen "flattish" activity, which is pretty much as you'd expect at this point.

Economies can't grow endlessly, unless you want to build everything on an unstable platform of false wealth and lending. Oh wait, that's what everyone wants...

It's only paper money kids

coffeeking - it has not come as a surprise at all. Reputable economist were predicting it. The only surprise is that anyone is surprised.

It's just the weather sillies. When it's sunny and thousands of public sector workers are filling all their new found leisure time with leisure activities we'll be fine again.

Clearly none of you are thinking about how much money you'd spend if you were permanently on holiday!

Blaming the weather. 🙄

LOLcarpetz.

"the wrong kind of leaves..." anyone?

nothing to do with quantitative easing then?

nothing to do with an previously overspending government then?

good job we still have our gold reserves and didn't sell them off at the bottom of the market...

I could live a pretty good life if I let my credit card rack up as well...

Quantative easing as done under labour and as still being done in many economies pulled us back out of recession - we are not in a double dip yet - but these results make it look much more likely. Cutting spending, talking down the economy and destroying consumer and business confidence reduces growth.

Umm...the recession is not the fault of an overspending government. Rupert would be delighted to hear you saying that though.

nothing to do with an previously overspending government then?

How would overspending cause a recession?

The number of economists on here is amazing, considering it's come as a suprise to them [the real ones] it would suggest that the original plans were fine. As per that document, taking the cold weather snap out would have seen "flattish" activity, which is pretty much as you'd expect at this point.

Um lots of economists were predicting that such drastic cuts as the government is carrying out would greatly increase the risk of a double dip. Looks like they were right.

Economies can't grow endlessly, unless you want to build everything on an unstable platform of false wealth and lending. Oh wait, that's what everyone wants...

Although the economy was growing again, until very recently. I'm no great fan of the capitalist mantra of never-ending growth but what are you suggesting as an alternative?

Ok, so maybe economists hadn't predicted that this was going to happen and certainly couldn't have forecast the impact of the weather, but...
Even if they were still predicting modest growth. Should George continue with his ideologically driven austerity measures or should he revise them in light of this new evidence?

I'd suggest that you wouldn't be at the helm of a company for very long if you didn't see your last quarter results as being particularly important.

So, good or bad time switch jobs?!

From 1st tier manufacturing to a construction based small business largely unaffected during the last 'dip'...

We're not in recession, we've only had one month of negative growth. We've got to have another before we're truly in recession.

Incidently while I don't think the coalition have covered themselves in glory I'm fairly certain any of the potential parties would have faired equally as badly. I think it's an extremely hard situation to deal with with many external factors beyond control and prediction.

We came out of recession under labour

And into it in the first palce....thanks to the muppets that voted for THEM!

There'll be some people on here for whom nothing would make them happier than if we double-dip.

Reputable economist were predicting it

Indeed. Many reputable economists were also saying it wouldn't happen though. I guess we'll get a better idea in the next few weeks.

Because historically countries that QE suffer inflation and all the rest of the ills that come with it, such as a poor exchange rate.

We wouldn't need so many cuts if the previous government hadn't built up such a large infrastructure (as labour governments always do) and put us in so much debt that 1 in every 5 tax pounds is going towards paying interest on that debt.

We're not in recession, we've only had one month of negative growth. We've got to have another before we're truly in recession.

For month read quarter.

The number of economists on here is amazing, considering it's come as a surprise to them [the real ones]

As a real economist (with a real degree in real economics and real econometrics), I was not even slightly taken by surprise. The next quarter, I fear, will show little improvement, if any.

Stagflation, anyone?

Hmm, perhaps all the worry over cuts and joblessness is what cause people not to spend...?

But yes, extremely difficult situation to be in. And we just voted in a bunch of noobs 🙄

And into it in the first palce....thanks to the muppets that voted for THEM!

Hang on. The recession was caused by Labour then? Not a world wide economic crisis that'd been brewing for 20 years? Wow.

[i]How would overspending cause a recession?[/i]

Well, that just about sums up the Pro left, tory haters here.

TJ, Grumm, you haven't a clue 🙄

as demonstrated here:
[i][Um lots of economists were predicting that such drastic cuts as the government is carrying out would greatly increase the risk of a double dip. Looks like they were right.[/i]

Yeap, thats right, cos of course, you'd never be able to find an [i]economist[/i] who would say what you wanted to here, and they never ever disagree with each other.

Bet you can't find an [i]economist[/i] who said we wouldn't DD...
Tsk, numpties 🙄

Just more insults from the Pro leftis here who think they can fool everyone here into thinking Labour are the best thing since sliced bread.

TJ and Grumm in "we hate the Tories" and heres why you should too, SHOCKER !!

Don't we need 3 consecutive quarters of negative growth for it to be called formally a recession? So this is a bit premptive doom mongering then!

Well done Tories (and all the chumps that voted for them)!

When a house is trashed, someones got to pay for it to be cleaned up.

Christ almighty! Listen to you lot bleating and whining. Its just me! Me! Me! isn't it with you selfish bastards?!

Will somebody think of the bankers FFS!!! The one's who've really suffered over the last few years.

They've got to make do with a paltry £7 billion bonus pool, regardless of whether its technically a double dip or not

And into it in the first palce....thanks to the muppets that voted for THEM!

Oh hang on, Labour caused a worldwide recession? All those people in Ireland must be very cross with Gordon Brown then, seeing as it's all his fault. 😕

We wouldn't need so many cuts.........

We [i]don't[/i] need so many cuts. We'll never pay the debt back if the economy slides back into recession caused by ideologically driven, excessively drastic cuts. (A position I seem to remember a Nobel prize winning economist coming out with a little while ago).

Just more insults from the Pro leftis here who think they can fool everyone here into thinking Labour are the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm not a fan of Labour - they are just marginally less reprehensible than the current incumbents.

Someone think of Brown and Blair.

Gold-plated pensions and income for life.

Thanks guys. No matter what nothing will wash the blood from your hands.

Neptune - Member

Don't we need 3 consecutive quarters of negative growth for it to be called formally a recession? So this is a bit premptive doom mongering then!

Yup - its an indication that thats the way we are heading - thats all it is.

Just more insults from the Pro leftis here who think they can fool everyone here into thinking Labour are the best thing since sliced bread.

(a) what's a leftis?

(b) I really don't like sliced bread

(c) Lots of economists (yes, I know we all vary in our opinions), even the more right-wing ones have serious doubts over the current government's policies. Not just the 'leftis'.

TandemJeremy - Member
Lionhert - the numbers for growth don't lie.

Yes they do, frequently. This newest set especially.

[i]Hang on. The recession was caused by Labour then? Not a world wide economic crisis that'd been brewing for 20 years? Wow. [/i]

No. Labour, The Tony and Gordon show should have been preparing us for what was building up, boom to a bust.

But what did Gordon do ?, he borrowed MORE !, to win votes and give more money away.

Theres a saying, Gordon may well have like to listen to:

In times of peace, prepare for war !.

Gordon didn't and so when the world caught cold, we got dragged down with it.

Of course, Grumm would have Labour in power still, and all those things Ed is saying Labour got wrong, well, he wouldn't be saying that and it would be "carry on".

You conveniently forget that the markets were circling the UK, waiting to see if they could give us the Greece, or Ireland treatment.
Which is what would have happened if borrow and spend Labour had, some how, stayed in power.

Thank goodness they are gone for now, and long may they stay in opposition.

They couldn't control their spending in the 70s, and they got it wrong again since 1997.

But of course, the Tory haters will all forget this and woffle on anyway.

Carry on Labour loving loonies.
🙄

Captain Crash - so please tell us how the overspending Labour government caused a banking collapse that started in the sup prime market in the US?

Of course economics is an inexact science but both Grumm and I posted in reply to

coffeeking - Member

The number of economists on here is amazing, considering it's come as a suprise to them [the real ones] it would suggest that the original plans were fine.

Its clear that actually many economists did predict that these savage, ideologically driven and uneeded cuts would put us into recession - indeed this is the lesson from history - cuttin at this point of the economic cycle leads to recwession - see 1930s, 1980s for evidence. See why other countries are still putting money into their economies now - including that bastion of socialism the USA

Oh hang on, Labour caused a worldwide recession?

Maybe not, but you seem to think the Tories are for some odd reason....

And Labour always do spend money they haven't got like water. That's all they know.

.

TJ. Chomp.

As far back as 2001 the Government was warned that house prices/lenders werent sustainable.

Going back just a few years the amount a typical first time borrower needed to get a foot on the ladder was approaching 5xsalary.

People blame the banks for lending to people (credit cards etc).

Banks can't be held accountable for Adults and how an adult should behave. On a credit form should you write 'do you have a clue what income versus expenditure means'?

Or

'Do you have a means to pay this back'?

I know two friends who along with others panicked and jumped onto a property that still accounts for the majority of their combined income as they thought 'buy the best now as the market is only going to keep climbing'.

The Government rode the credit-economy with (pun) a house built on sand.

Maybe not, but you seem to think the Tories are for some odd reason....

No, they are just causing a recession in this country, rather than enduring a worldwide one. Crucial difference. 🙄

Not my fault, I didn't vote Tory...nor will I.

And I didn't vote Labour either. They squandered my 1997 vote and thus won't be getting another one again.

It's a shame my party of choice reneged on all of the policies that prompted me to support them in the first place.

One good thing. Banning smoking in pubs and restaurants.

The only light in a darkened valley.

Don't worry you lot. As soon as the 4%+ inflation, George's increase in VAT and still further massive job losses kick in this month, the economy will be back to rude health. Surely those intelligent and well thought-through policies will have our growth rate up to somewhere near China's in no time?

PeterPoddy.

Well put.

TJ.

USA are in currency war with the rest of the world, and wish to work their way out of recession by selling stuff, so Ben fires up the printing press and floods the world withmore reserve currency.

I just can't be 4rsed with you, you'll never accept the truth.
For someone so diligent in googling the [i]facts[/i] you seem to consistently fail to see Labours short comings while gettin busy flaming the tories.
Its so one sided as to be almost comical.

In all other matters you appear to try to hold a balanced view but when it comes to the tories, its just too much for you to resist.
Fortunately, most people on here are savy enough not to listen to you on this matter.

buyeee 😉