[Closed] So my daughter is freaking me out a bit, any advice please.

chewkw - Member
What methodology do you apply to eliminate the impossibilities? I would like to hear your logic.

i) No evidence for ghosts in the history of the world, ever.
ii) See i)

Lifer - Member

chewkw - Member
What methodology do you apply to eliminate the impossibilities? I would like to hear your logic.

i) No evidence for ghosts in the history of the world, ever.
ii) See i)

i) That's does not mean you have eliminated the impossibilities because you are making an assumption that No evidence are probable.

ii) See i)

What methodology(s) have you applied to come up with your conclusion? Research publication? Hear say speculation?

🙄

My eldest used to do this thing when he was little when he would name and point to himself, me, his mom and then say 'and you' and point to an empty space next to us. It was odd. The cat would often freak out staring into space too.

Our house was only built in 1991 and there's no local Indian burial grounds as far as I know.

prawny - Member
The cat would often freak out staring into space too.

This is interesting because I noticed my cousin's cat doing the same thing when I stayed in their guest room. Their house is known to be haunted. 😯

prawny - Member
Our house was only built in 1991 and there's no local Indian burial grounds as far as I know.

Not necessary burial grounds. Sometimes it could just be "passing visitor(s)" that dropped by. Check the history of that local area.

Brilliant.

Lifer - Member

Brilliant.

Indeed.

Where are the scientific research papers?
See you've not eliminated the impossibilities.

😛

Impossible fasthaggis - it's not a 29er.

Tonight she got me to wave at the "lady" and promptly followed it up with "hello ladies bot bot" 😆

Ghost or not, mini teadrinker is awesome and makes me laugh so much.

teadrinker - Member

Impossible fasthaggis - it's not a 29er.

That bike is ugly ... 🙄

As it happens, I studied parapsychology in the final year of my degree, so 10 years ago now. It is a real (branch of a) science, and the researchers are a fairly even mix of agnostics, sceptics and wahoos, they generally declare their views as measured by a standard scale. There are plenty of research papers, with very well designed experiments and I don't recall any that supported the existence of ghosts. What there were, were hundreds of mundane explanations for the sort of anecdotes that some people think are 'proof'.

If I could be hooped I'd have a scan through the recent literature to educate chewy, but I should really be scanning the literature for my masters dissertation instead.

chewkw - Member
teadrinker - Member
Impossible fasthaggis - it's not a 29er.

That bike is ugly ...

and your point?

teadrinker - Member

chewkw - Member
teadrinker - Member
Impossible fasthaggis - it's not a 29er.

That bike is ugly ...

and your point?

It is ugly.

What is yours?

😯

unknown - Member

If I could be hooped I'd have a scan through the recent literature to educate chewy, but I should really be scanning the literature for my masters dissertation instead.

Link to the published literature/research papers? I search the interweb but could not find proper research papers ... would be an interesting read though.
😀

I like it. Alot.

teadrinker - Member

I like it. Alot.

I don't like it because of the bent tubes.

For whatever reasons the bent tubes just put me off.

😯

Journal of parapsychology.
European journal of parapsychology.

Or try 'an introduction to parapsychology' by Irwin.

[img] [/img]

unknown - Member

As it happens, I studied parapsychology in the final year of my degree, so 10 years ago now. It is a real (branch of a) science, and the researchers are a fairly even mix of agnostics, sceptics and wahoos, they generally declare their views as measured by a standard scale. There are plenty of research papers, with very well designed experiments and I don't recall any that supported the existence of ghosts. What there were, were hundreds of mundane explanations for the sort of anecdotes that some people think are 'proof'.

Interesting. So they are not in agreement I guess. 😆

If I could be hooped I'd have a scan through the recent literature to educate chewy, but I should really be scanning the literature for my masters dissertation instead.

😆 Yes, please recent literatures.

edit:

unknown - Member

Journal of parapsychology.
European journal of parapsychology.

Or try 'an introduction to parapsychology' by Irwin.

Are they free to download?

Squidlord - Member

😆

I expect you'd need a subscription, but you could try sticking parapsychology into google scholar and seeing what it gives you.

Found the fellow Irwin.

[url= http://archived.parapsych.org/members/h_irwin.html ]Some of the stuff he published[/url]

A quick glace suggest that he has approached the subject from Psychological point of views which subsequently, IMO, framed the research in certain ways. i.e. in our brain and our brains are the starting point etc.

While others who approached the subject from "scientific" point of views may naturally framed their research from their scientific understanding.

The problem with both is that they both perceived phenomena from their own perspectives.

IMO both are insufficient and there need to a new approach to human understanding.

😀

edit: Were you critical in your approach to the subject when you were studying them or were you "put in your place" i.e. being told to investigate from a particular views?

So millions of adults do the same thing daily to what they term as 'god', and they should know better.

A 2 year old at least has the benefit of not knowing better.

Your daughter is not the problem here. Perception is.

Incredible.

My dissertation wasn't on ghosts, it was on remote attention focussing, a sort of low level ESP. We found a weak trend towards supporting it's existence but nowhere near statistical significance.

Anyway, you asked for published research and there it is. I think if you took the time to read the literature it would be pretty clear that you haven't eliminated all the possible explanations apart from ghosts as you suggested. My own view is that it's entirely possible that ghosts or some type of afterlife exists, but I've yet to have seen a single piece of evidence to suggest that they do, so I think it's exceptionally unlikely.

Had a spare room downstairs in a house which I turned into a home cycle workshop.

It was always freezing in there with the heating turned up or in the summer. Tools would disappear but assume that was me or housemates.

Felt a bit uncomfortable but nothing more but felt I was being watched.

Sold the house and as I was putting away things into a removal van, old lady who walks her dog everyday while I lived there starts a conversation with me about the house.

She tells me how she used to visit the previous owner who died of cancer and used to stay bedridden in that room... 😯

Lifer - Member

Incredible.

Indeed. 😆

unknown - Member

My dissertation wasn't on ghosts, it was on remote attention focussing, a sort of low level ESP. We found a weak trend towards supporting it's existence but nowhere near statistical significance.

Interesting. However, if your apply your ESP perspective in the investigation then you have framed it as an internal phenomena from psychological perspective.

Anyway, you asked for published research and there it is. I think if you took the time to read the literature it would be pretty clear that you haven't eliminated all the possible explanations apart from ghosts as you suggested.

There you go not all possibilities are eliminated which is one of my point. However, I am not here to tell others if there is such phenomena or not as I rather let them interpret their experiences themselves. I only say what I feel is the possibilities. It would be Very boring if everyone agrees with me ...

My own view is that it's entirely possible that ghosts or some type of afterlife exists, but I've yet to have seen a single piece of evidence to suggest that they do, so I think it's exceptionally unlikely.

It is highly unlikely that you will have evidence for now due to the following hindrance:

1. The framing of the subject. We are handicapped by our perspectives from the start of the research.

2. The instrument of measure. The tools we have are not that advance yet to measure phenomena.

3. No big money involved. i.e. so what if there are ghosts etc as it does not make economical sense other than some understanding.

😛

She tells me how she used to visit the previous owner who died of cancer and used to stay bedridden in that room...

Did she mention if the person had a tendency to knick tools ?

Frankenstein - Member

It was always freezing in there with the heating turned up or in the summer. Tools would disappear but assume that was me or housemates.

Felt a bit uncomfortable but nothing more but felt I was being watched.

Based on my experience or "observation" the cold is very different from cold you encounter as in cold weather. Let me explain.

1. Cold weather - normally the expose part of your body will feel the cold first and gradually your entire body feel the cold. i.e. the cold would start from your feet or hand or face etc then your body.

2. Cold from phenomena - this kind of cold usually start from the centre of your body gradually moved towards the back of your neck. By the time that chill reach the back of your neck you get the goosebumps feeling or the chill. This kind of cold does not require your body to be exposed to cold.

She tells me how she used to visit the previous owner who died of cancer and used to stay bedridden in that room...

This is something I need to find out as to why certain "people" do not move on ...

😀

What's that Sam?

Lifer - Member

What's that Sam?

😯

What's that Sam?

Aww hell naw. Don't bring me into it, I only work for that jerk 'cos he pays me.

I agree that if you eliminate all the possibilities then whatever is left must be the truth, that's fine.

The issue is how you identify what is a possibility, and how you eliminate a possibility that you've identified.

"Ghosts" are said to be a possibility.

There is no known mechanism by which there can be ghosts, and the evidence for their existence is purely anecdotal and (as the only person contributing to this thread who has read any serious attempts to substantiate them using usual methods of scientific inquiry states, rubbish).If you aren't going to eliminate a possibility on the basis that it has (a) no known way of being possible and (b) no evidence that it exists then you have to entertain [i]literally any[/i] explanation you can think of that hasn't been definitively shown to be impossible as well, including:

- side-effects of homeopathy;
- Karmic retribution for the martyrdom of Ched Evans; and
- Roko's basilisk messing with you because you haven't been devoting enough time to bringing Roko's Basilisk into existence lately.

And [i]all[/i] of those should have a [i]much[/i] lower a priori probability than (say) aliens, the existence of which is supported by anecdotal evidence and whose existence has both a clear possibility according to known scientific principles and (depending on the value you attach [i]fl[/i] and [i]fi[/i] in the Drake Equation) a material probability of actually existing (although all the anecdotes are in fact nonsense)....

🙂

BigDummy - Member
The issue is how you identify what is a possibility, and how you eliminate a possibility that you've identified.

That is the dilemma i.e. the method of enquiry. Without understanding the method of investigation (a better technique) there is no end to open assumption regardless of whether there is or there is not. Hence, it is opened to individual interpretation.

There is no known mechanism by which there can be ghosts, and the evidence for their existence is purely anecdotal and (as the only person contributing to this thread who has read any serious attempts to substantiate them using usual methods of scientific inquiry states, rubbish)

IMO, like I said previously perhaps the methodology is insufficient or the instrument for the research may not be advanced enough to conduct such investigation. Personal experiences can be or cannot be the truth but it is unique to that event. Replicable? I don't know.

If you aren't going to eliminate a possibility on the basis that it has (a) no known way of being possible and (b) no evidence that it exists then you have to entertain literally any explanation you can think of that hasn't been definitively shown to be impossible as well, including:

You have just increased the impossibility by making such assumptions (if I read you correctly?).
a) by framing the improbability from the start of your question.
b) which lead to the support/assumption that evidence was not possible.
The two are interlinked as former or latter needs to start first by giving the probability which as you argued is impossible. The question is where to start? A bit like chicken and egg ...

- side-effects of homeopathy;
- Karmic retribution for the martyrdom of Ched Evans; and
- Roko's basilisk messing with you because you haven't been devoting enough time to bringing Roko's Basilisk into existence lately.

Homeopathy - never experienced and will never try it so beyond me. No comment from me I am afraid so if you say it's shite or good then so be it.

Karmic retribution - it is far easier to understand the big bang then karmic retribution. This is one that is beyond comprehension. However, you can reason it but whether the logic stands is another story ...

I don't believe in Roko's Basilisk singular ultimate superintelligence or the AI whatever. Yes, you might have mighty robot but that's that. Anyone or anything that professes to be the [u]singular[/u] then couple with the word [u]ultimate[/u] is illogical.

And all of those should have a much lower a priori probability than (say) aliens, the existence of which is supported by anecdotal evidence and whose existence has both a clear possibility according to known scientific principles and (depending on the value you attach fl and fi in the Drake Equation) a material probability of actually existing (although all the anecdotes are in fact nonsense)....

Therefore, until you eliminate the impossible it will always remain as unknown or anecdotal.

The problem is the techniques apply to eliminate the impossibility which in themselves are not perfect hence the constant search or shall I say research ... that never ends.

😛

ojom - Member

So millions of adults do the same thing daily to what they term as 'god', and they should know better.

A 2 year old at least has the benefit of not knowing better.

Your daughter is not the problem here. Perception is.

The adults are corrupted.

The 2 year old is pure and honest.

The daughter say it as it is while the adults twist and turn to contradict themselves.

gofasterstripes - Member

"What's that Sam?"

Aww hell naw. Don't bring me into it, I only work for that jerk 'cos he pays me.

😆