[Closed] So Jesus said to his disciples as he was nailed to the cross..

[Apologies - thread hijack!]

I have a first edition signed copy of the New Testament on ebay at the moment.....

[As you were]

"Life is much better with an open mind. "

The mind of a child, or a scientist.

One that doesn't just take what it already knows and measures up everything by it; instead, realising that there is a lot you don't know and seeking it out.

As for those people saying that faith is just about believing in magic tricks - you don't get it. So lay off criticising what you don't understand, it makes you look stupid.

Do you think the magic tricks help or hinder though?

If Hitler had been successful in his abhorent extermination of the Jewish people would the political and religious make up of the middle east be more stable than it currently is.

IanMunro - Member

Do you think the magic tricks help or hinder though?

'and he shall have a very religious name and Daniel shall they know him by and also by the name Paul'........ 'Paul Daniels' they cried!!!'

[img] [/img]

Edric,The most hard core jews tend to come from America and Russia,so moot point.He also struggled to get hold of Europes Jews once people in (most,hang your head Italy)occupied countries sussed what was going on.

jasonm945 - Member

So why do so many "faithful" lose their rag at others opinions!

Have you noticed that too jasonm945 ?

All the religious types on here, completely lose it when they are challenged by atheists - they rant, are offensive, and really quite intolerant.

The STW atheists, on the other hand, all post perfectly calm and measured comments. Never feeling the need to rant, lose their rags, or show any kind of intolerance.

It all goes to show........doesn't it ?

BTW jasonm945, I'm impressed by the sheer quantity of exclamation marks in your post
........it's all quite shocking ....... isn't it !!!! 😀

For those religious folk on here who wonder why people have a go at religion:

From our first stages of state education we are taught to believe in Christianity and have acts of worship.

In the UK we are also brought up to believe that the C of E is the 'right' version of that particular medieval monotheistic religion and its bishops are given seats in the Lords. Roman Catholicism is now tolerated up to a point, although not a good choice if you want to be the monarch or possibly the PM.

The Bible is an ambiguous, disparate collection of violent stories and touchy-feely parables intended to control the masses. Different denominations place emphasis on different parts.

Each Church has a lot of suspiciously man-made ritual and 'tradition' that can change substantially over the years.

We are now also taught to 'respect' all 'faiths' -despite the one-true-way nature of the CofE being the established church.

'Faiths', no matter how ludicrous/sexist/anti-contraception/homophobic/unpleasant/cruel to animals, are given special consideration and must not be criticised for fear of offending the supposedly mighty religions.

[b]There is no basis for any of these religions[/b], other than ignorance, superstition, fear of upsetting a creator, fear of death/the after-life and maybe meat preparation in a hot desert in the middle ages.

[b]Enquiring minds do not get satisfactory answers to their questions because there are no answers.
[/b]

Geronimo,what special consideration is it that we get? Please point it out for me I am a bit dim this morning.Seriously,give me examples of how Christianity get special treatment in our country.Unless you have experience of living abroad,in which case feel free to use that country as a reference.I await your reply with interest.
BTW Showing you age.All religions are looked at in schools now,not just Christianity.

Geronimo,what special consideration is it that we get?

By 'you', do you mean the religious in general or a particular faith?

[u]Fairly fundamentally[/u], as above:

[i]The archbishops of Canterbury and York and the bishops of Durham, London and Winchester are by tradition always members of the House of Lords. The remaining [b]21[/b] places on the Bishops’ Bench are not fixed, but are occupied by those English diocesan bishops that have served the longest.[/i]

The Archbishop of Canterbury certainly gets a lot of air-time to express his views considering that his followers are so few in number.

Interestingly, Tony Blair only got around to 'converting' not long after leaving office. Why was that? (Incidentally, when the pope died, the UK news coverage of the events was incredible in its quantity, so RC is presumably not too much of a problem for the UK public. It may have been a quiet news week though)

In some cases, workers are allowed to wear different uniforms on religious grounds.

There is, of course, the old chestnut of sikhs and motorbike helmets.

We are advised to treat people as they would like to be treated ie. special treatment, not treat everybody in the same way, resulting in people (especially in the public sector) being worried about causing offence at every turn and not being 'inclusive' enough.

All religions are looked at in schools now,not just Christianity.

So, as above, if (CofE)Christianity is viewed as the only one -by twist of historical fate involving Henry VIII- worthy of the monarch and a guaranteed seat in the Lords, then how can other faiths be considered other than as inferior/wrong?

Don't get me wrong, I've no issue with people having a private [i]faith[/i], but, as untested theory, religious [i]faith[/i] of whatever kind should have no bearing on the laws of the land.

Let's secularise the country and remove the church's (and any other religion's) influence.

Liberté, égalité, fraternité

[i]All religions are looked at in schools now,not just Christianity. [/i]

Seems to me that children are taught to [i]be[/i] Christians. Which I think is wrong.
Child at home talks about god and jesus and all that stuff and asks me questions about it... not sure how confused he is by my answers conflicting with what the school is telling him.
Only yesterday he asked me what religion I am. "None". "I thought so".
I think he's smart enough to get it, but I'm sure other kids are finding it pretty bizarre to be taught all this fantasy stuff as fact.
Or should I treat it like Father Christmas and pretend I think god exists until he works it out for himself? But Father Christmas is one bloke, one bloke who never had a war faught over him, or any deaths in his name (as far as I know) 😕

It's such a shame they built Windsor Castle so close to Heathrow 🙂

Geronimo,I fail to see how clergy membership of a non-elected,toothless throwback has any impact on how the country is run.
On the wearing of uniforms etc,does that spoil your day? Hardly evidence of an all prevading grip on the Country,is it.

Archbishop of Canterbury=more followers than Labour party 😀 Consider yourself getting off lightly.

I am with you on the separation of Church and State,vast majority of Christians are as well.

Denz,let him make his own mind up.

[i]let him make his own mind up.[/i]

Thats kinda my point - the school doesn't do that "Seems to me that children are taught to [i]be[/i] Christians."

non-elected,toothless throwback

The C of E who spend a lot of time arguing about females or homosexuals taking senior positions?

The Lords is the upper house of the country. You fail to see the relevance of church senior managers being given seats?

Archbishop of Canterbury=more followers than Labour party Consider yourself getting off lightly

How many people voted for the Archbishop? 9,562,122 voted for Labour last time.

"Seems to me that children are taught to be Christians."

We were when I was at primary school in the 80s, although I remember one of our more inspiring teachers suggesting that 'the creation', 'noah's ark' etc. were not necessarily correct. ie. not true.

what special consideration is it that we get?

I'd be surprised if children really were taught Christian ideas as facts these days. We had religious stories in primary school but that was 25 years ago. As far as I understand it (my family are teachers) they take great care to be secular these days.

Offensive cartoons featuring politicians get published all the time. Why is ridiculing imaginary people more offensive than ridiculing real ones ?

Because offensive religious cartoons could easily be considered as 'inciting religious hatred' which is an offence. There is no corresponding offence of 'inciting political disagreement'.

Politics is an academic matter. Faith is a lot more personal and private than that. Would you like to see people's sexuality openly mocked, or their choice of partner?

"HAHAHA you married a fat bird! Looser!"

its been done before but http://www.thebricktestament.com/

has all the answers you will ever need about god

i particularly like the bits in the bible where women on their periods are unclean, when is the right time to kill your child and any women captured in battle can be taken as a slave but she must have her head shaved

medieval mumbo jumbo should have no place in todays society

medieval mumbo jumbo should have no place in todays society

It doesn't - that's why no-one uses those parts of the bible.

apart from b and b owners?

http://www.thebricktestament.com/epistles/those_who_will_never_inherit_the_kingdom_of_god/03_1c06_09c.html

get real christian theology has corrupted our society so deeply it will take centuries to get rid of, at least its dying out, thank god 😉

...'inciting religious hatred' which is an offence

So why is it an offence ?

I think all politicians, trade unionists, communists, fascists, merchant bankers and double glazing salesmen should be shot.
Why am I allowed to incite hatred against them, but not against someone for having an imaginary friend ?

Not that I want to incite hatred against anyone of course.
It would just be nice to know that I could if I wanted to.

I think all politicians, trade unionists, communists, fascists, merchant bankers and double glazing salesmen should be shot.

Not a very happy bunny, are you? 🙁

Someone's job is a far less divisive issue than their faith and/or race.

Btw - you say you think all fascists should be shot. Irony much?

[i] medieval mumbo jumbo should have no place in todays society[/i]

It doesn't - that's why no-one uses those parts of the bible.

Haha. The 'scriptures' are there to back up any argument

-which bits you use depends on your argument....
😆

OK,leave out the fascists then. They've had a lot of bad press and I'm sure they're not as black as they're painted.
And maybe I was being a bit harsh on the others. Perhaps they could just be sent to their room with no dinner.

graham you forgot estate agents

OK then, shoot estate agents.

If you started quoting leviticus to defend your views you'd not get much credibility from anyone except far right lunatics.

If you started quoting leviticus to defend your views you'd not get much credibility from anyone except far right lunatics.

...but it is part of the BIBLE, non?

Who's leviticus ?
I've not been on this forum long and I don't know everyone yet.

but it is part of the BIBLE, non?

Yes, but not many Christians take the bible as inerrant...

I just had to look up inerrant. 😳

So, it's a bit like that argument that atheists disbelieve all gods, religious people disbelieve all but one of them.
If most xtians accept that there are errors in parts of the bible, it's not such a big step to accepting that the whole thing is made up is it ?

No, not at all. I think that many Christians believe that the bible was written down by people who talked to God. So there's plenty of scope for errors.

The entire bible could be completely made up and it would in no way preclude the existence of a god, would it?

molgrips - Member
I'd be surprised if children really were taught Christian ideas as facts these days. We had religious stories in primary school but that was 25 years ago. As far as I understand it (my family are teachers) they take great care to be secular these days.

My 6yr old's state school teaches the Easter and Xmas stories, and to a child of that age it comes across as fact, hence her arguing with me about the existence of Jesus/God/wise men/etc.

Strangely enough despite her school being 50% Muslim, she doesn't come home with brainwashed opinions about Mohammed.

Militantgraham; Nice try with the guy from the airport, earlier you made a statement that anybody who is religious has mental illness.Do a bit of research on your militant atheist,the guy who was leaving offensive cartoons in a Muslim prayer room,google him,By your own definition above, is he sane? Feel free to ignore this question if it is too hard.

Geronimo,Church of England,female and Gay Ministers are a fact,what is your point about members of the 11th biggest landowner sitting in the house designed for landowners? Fit in pretty well amoung the port drinkers IMO Not as if the rest of the house are shining beacons of social reform.Most of them probably have less progressive views than the CoE members.
Levicticus is part of a number of books in the Old testament instructing the Jews how to live their lives,to show they are "different" to the non-jewish tribes.
If you want to apply people turning up for an election as say against attending Christmas services,9 million labour votes v 11 million people in Church(all Christian faiths)between 23-25th Dec.
Labour membership,not the same thing as voting is it? still; 169,000 members of labour party.260,000 attend CoE each Sunday,by your own logic Christianity has more relevence than Labour.
For anybody posting about how their kids are being "indoctrinated" I am a teacher,and a father of a primary age boy.In the rural school my boy is at they do Easter,xmas,Ramadan,Dwali(festival of light)reincarnation.Despite their being NO kids from any ethnic backgrounds,same in secondary.Still,why let it get in the way of moaning about the all-prevading influence of religion because we do 2 Christian festivals.

Put the computer down. Nobody touched Jesus's easter eggs, so you can step away from the keyboard now thanks. 😀

My 6yr old's state school teaches the Easter and Xmas stories, and to a child of that age it comes across as fact, hence her arguing with me about the existence of Jesus/God/wise men/etc

I'd have strong words with the school if that were the case with my kids.

Diwali this, Channukah that. Christmas? Banned.*

(*© Bellamy's People)

Phoenix,could you please look through surfer,woppit and Junkyard's posts on how to troll Christians.Then if you could check sfb's on how to generally troll EVERYBODY.Do a bt of research and then come back,as you are falling short of the required standard.I realise that the ante is upped a bit from the MBUK part of Bikeradar,but you must try harder.

PS;Still waiting for the evidence on the Christian's involvement in ww2 as well.

duckman - Member

PS;Still waiting for the evidence on the Christian's involvement in ww2 as well.

I'm still eagerly awaiting the historical proof that Jesus existed that was mentioned early in the thread......

Duckman. Why would I want to troll Christians? I don't believe that there is a god, but don't have any problem with others following their choice of religion as long as they don't disrespect my beliefs and retain their sense of humour.

Also, I gave my answer to that question a bit further up.

Must have missed it Phoenix?

Idlejohn,even Wiki (as much as it pains me to say) presents the evidence of his existance.There is little/no debate even amoung Atheists as to the existance of Jesus of Nazereth.It is what he did that annoys you so much...

I dont think anyone would dare attempt to deny that there might have been some dude who called himself Jesus that lived in Nazareth.

I would.
Why would a guy from Nazareth have a Mexican name for a start.