So, I got a speeding ticket - what to expect

Yep, for that small percentage over the limit, and if you haven't already done a course (obviously you haven't or you wouldn't be asking!) you'll get the speed awareness. Definitely do it online, so you're not in a room of the usual anti-cycling, I didn't do nuffin wrong, knowitall people that the only thing you have in common with is that you drive a car

As above, you can do the course and it's no bother. The time I had to do it we spent the afternoon learning why speeding in built up areas is bad, which is fine but 99% of the class were caught in a 60 zone, miles from any houses.

I did a speed awareness course a good few years back.

The instructor was openly anti-cyclist. I spoke up a couple of times but in the end held my tongue in case she failed me.

Booked onto one next week for doing 35 in a 30, three hour(ish) online course, do check all the different providers as prices do differ (slightly). 

If online is an option then definitely take it. Attending in person is absolutely awful

in the end held my tongue in case she failed me

You can't fail a speed awareness course, except by not attending. But you can make it take longer than it needs to be speaking up. That's the worst you can do  

She could of easily called me disruptive if i had carried on.

Also, i didn't want to be there any longer than necessary.

I did learn the proper definition of a dual carriageway though.

"If you’re distracted, disruptive, or otherwise rude or hostile, the workshop leaders are sure to let the police know. They might conclude that you’ve not learned your lesson, so you might have to pay your fine and take your points."

i went along in person. a lot of them were a bit cheesed off to start with but once it had been made clear to them that the people delivering the course weren't in any way involved with the police and had no interest in talking down to anyone the mood lifted a bit. it's just a cross section of people at the end of the day because a broad selection of the population speed. found it quite useful and learned a few things.

I had similar and offered speed awareness. As others have said, do it online and suggest looking for cheapest provider. I went with Hartlepool rather than Greater Manchester and was about 20/30% cheaper. Course we run by council rather than secondary provider maybe that explains the price difference.

Exactly how I got caught, I was slowing from a 50 for a 30 and hadn't quite slowed enough when I got pinged.  They must've been waiting right at the sign, a few yards further down and I was definitely under the limit.  A bit galling but no excuse as you say.

What to expect on the course?  A roomful of morons who shouldn't be on the road. Amongst their number was a woman who had mown down a cyclist and thought it was hilarious, and a young lad who had recently passed and confessed to not knowing any road signs bar the ones he'd been told were on the test.  Oh, and one bloke who didn't want to sit the course so had sent his brother instead.

The course itself was tedious and patronising, the one interesting bit was a deep-dive into just how many people are affected following a major accident.

The only eye-opening thing on my course was the fact that no-one else knew what a dual carriageway was. But it wasn't particularly anti-cyclist or moronic, the others seemed to also be people who'd been a bit careless with limits like I had been.

The only eye-opening thing on my course was the fact that no-one else knew what a dual carriageway was.

I was one of them.

I had been driving over 20 years and didn't know. I don't think anyone else did either?

I was one of them.

I had been driving over 20 years and didn't know. I don't think anyone else did either?

So, being unclear if I didn't know what I didn't know I googled....

AI Overview

Learn more

 

A dual carriageway, also known as a divided highway, is a road where traffic moving in opposite directions is separated by a physical barrier or central reservation, enhancing safety and traffic flow. 

 

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• • Definition:

    A dual carriageway is characterized by having two or more lanes of traffic in each direction, separated by a central reservation or barrier. 

     
  • Purpose:

    The primary purpose is to improve safety by preventing head-on collisions and to facilitate higher speeds and smoother traffic flow. 

     

• Central Reservation:

  The central reservation can be a grassy strip, a concrete wall, or metal barriers, serving as a physical separation between opposing traffic flows. 

   

• Lane Configuration:

  Dual carriageways can have two, three, or even more lanes in each direction, but the defining characteristic is the separation of traffic flows. 

   

• Speed Limits:

  The national speed limit for cars on a dual carriageway is 70 mph, but this can vary depending on road signs and conditions. 

   

• Driving Rules:

  In the UK, on a dual carriageway, you should stay in the left-hand lane unless overtaking, and return to the left lane after overtaking. 

   

• Difference from Motorways:

  While many motorways are dual carriageways, simply having three lanes and a hard shoulder does not make a road a motorway. 

Which is what I thought it was. Or is AI missing something according to the speed awareness dudes?

No, the easy rule is that if you could roll a ball across the entire road, it's not a dual carriageway. (ie, just paint markings to separate the directions). If there's any sort of kerb or barrier or gap, it's a dual. (There may be some rare and pedantic exceptions to the above, but it's a good general guide.)

I did a speed awareness course online through Drivetech a couple of weeks ago.

Limited to eight participants and the instructor used to be an accident investigator, so qualified to talk about how speed can make a difference in different scenarios. 

The course came from an angle of zero judgement and was build to educate above everything else. Personally I found it very good an informative and would highly recommend picking Drivetech as your course provider. 

the easy rule is that if you could roll a ball across the entire road, it's not a dual carriageway.

How big a ball?

https://images.app.goo.gl/R1yjAVGV5vNkP6Gz7

When i got first done i was hoping for speed awareness, it was first offence I was a few miles over, no i got points.  Insurance went up ever so slightly, this was about 10 yrs ago.  Got done recently, points again but insurance didnt go up a penny.  The speed awareness costs about the same so points saves doing the course, yes its a problem if youve already got points but ive been done twice in over 30 yrs so i hope i'll never get close to 12 - i bike everywhere local in decent weather

Posted by: thecaptain

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No, the easy rule is that if you could roll a ball across the entire road, it's not a dual carriageway.

The other thing everyone misses is, it's nothing to do with the number of lanes.  Whilst two is most common, you could have a dual carriageway which is a single lane in each direction.

You can't fail a speed awareness course

You used to be able to. I did one, errrrr, 25 years ago? And some dopey old git was told to either shut up and listen or continue moaning about his innocence and leave.

He moaned some more and got thrown out, so would be getting his points. And a fine, despite having paid for the course as well.

I did a motorway speed awareness course last month, it was not good. Got caught in a similar manner to others, 60 in a 50 variable speed limit, the car was driving and had already clocked the reduced limit but it slows down starting when it passes the sign. Still no excuse I was responsible and over the limit. The course was painful, I was actually hoping I would learn something, I didn't. The instructor was really patronising and really unhelpful when asked to clarify things, like she couldn't deviate from the script. I just shut up and did my time. The lack of road knowledge fro m some of the other drivers was a bit worrying but one of them were knows. Online and done in 3 hours.

Six points, large fine and no offer of a speed awareness course for my first and only offence. On the positive side, I retained my license and the points will disappear in two months time. We all make mistakes. 

As above, deffo do the course. I very recently did it online. It was pretty informative and not unpleasant at all. 

The other thing everyone misses is, it's nothing to do with the number of lanes.  Whilst two is most common, you could have a dual carriageway which is a single lane in each direction.

That was the most interesting thing I learned at my course, that you could potentially legally go 70 on a single-lane road!

Another win for the 'confidently incorrect' AI bot up there.

I did one many years ago (caught accelerating too early out of a 30 zone onto NSL, was doing 34 as I was still in the 30 zone).

Only option was in person at the time and, as with @Del 's description above, mix of people who were initially a bit hostile but soon settled down. The course was quite interesting actually, there was no judgement.

Echo the comments above about keeping quiet though. Sit there, take it in, get out. There's invariably one smartarse / conspiracy theorist who thinks they've done nothing wrong, it's all a scam...

Posted by: chambord

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If online is an option then definitely take it. Attending in person is absolutely awful

Why, exactly? I did one, after being caught following a line of cars in Bristol. It wasn’t a problem attending, and I learned from the person taking the course that the camera that had been placed on the A4 Batheaston bypass on the way to and from Bath, before it had even opened, and which is a dual carriageway with a 50 limit, was effectively a moneymaking operation, because the accident black spot it was supposed to be slowing drivers down for was actually in the village of Batheaston, which the bypass was supposed to avoid! The rules state that a camera can be installed within 2km of the actual black spot - it doesn’t say where…

Attending in person is absolutely awful

Oh I don't know. I did one years back and it was blimmin hilarious due to the cross section of society that are all smashed together in there.

It was worth the price of entry for that alone.

The instructor was also absolutely ace and delivered a subtle piss taking of many of the people who were present. Some real stereotypes in the room somloada of great material - boy racers, gammons, know it alls, pompous late middle age people who thought they were above it.

I'm sure the instructor must have been a stand up comedian in his spare time.

Was a great night out -  honestly!!!

Was in Bradford by the way.

Posted by: TiRed

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Six points, large fine and no offer of a speed awareness course for my first and only offence. On the positive side, I retained my license and the points will disappear in two months time. We all make mistakes. 

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you weren't doing 35 in a 30.

Have to say, now I've got a car with proper cruise control I am very aware how lucky I am not to have been caught over the limit since 1996. I hold up a lot of traffic an indicated 31....

Why, exactly?

Cos you might be there?

He moaned some more and got thrown out,

I don’t think the examples given are “failing”, just being a dick.

Oh, i dunno.

Paying for a course, then being thrown out, then having to pay the fine as well, AND take the points.

Sounds like a massive fail to me.

Posted by: crazy-legs

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There's invariably one smartarse / conspiracy theorist who thinks they've done nothing wrong, it's all a scam...

You called them and they appeared!

Other posters are correct.

It's a training exercise not a test, you cannot fail it.  There is no exam at the end, you could sit there going "I don't know" for the afternoon if you wanted.

You can however fail to complete it.  But you'd have to try really hard or just not bother turning up.

Posted by: crazy-legs

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There's invariably one... who thinks they've done nothing wrong,

There's more than one.

The first exercise was going round the room asking people to explain why they were there.  "I was late for work / it was a wide road / I've driven there loads and never been caught before" etc etc.  Everyone had some excuse as to how it wasn't their fault and they were just hard done by (which I suppose is the point).  I think I said something like "I screwed up, sorry."

I got caught in England - coming off the bottom of the m57 into switch island. 51 in a 40 apparently. I was offered a speed awareness course

I live in Scotland - where speed awareness courses are not available - so paid for and joined a zoom call with a bunch of other miscreants with Cheshire Constabulary. 

Interesting morning, cross spectrum of society, some good conversation. Better than points tbh as I've got a small fleet of cars/motorbikes/vans on insurance at the moment

If you take the course but don't participate then you can be failed.... apparently

after being caught following a line of cars in Bristol. It wasn’t a problem attending, and I learned from the person taking the course that the camera that had been placed on the A4 Batheaston bypass on the way to and from Bath, before it had even opened, and which is a dual carriageway with a 50 limit, was effectively a moneymaking operation, because the accident black spot it was supposed to be slowing drivers down for was actually in the village of Batheaston, which the bypass was supposed to avoid! The rules state that a camera can be installed within 2km of the actual black spot - it doesn’t say where. 

Sounds like you didn't learn anything relevent to the offence then ..... Just excuses to justify driving too fast. 

I got done afew weeks back (38 in a 30, my bad) Got given the option of 3 points/£100 fine or speed awareness course for £98. Chose the latter, Opted to attend it too as I've never done a zoom call and don't intent to.

Did one about 10 years back and found it fairly informative tbh (though not informative enough obviously!)

I did a "Smart Motorway Awareness"  maybe six years ago after being clocked doing 60 when the variable speed limit had been set to 50. It was on the M5 between Taunton and Bristol.

It was an in-person course and had a range of mostly normal people with the main common factor being that none of us had much of a clue about how smart motorways operate. Learning the theory of how they work was actually quite interesting but the whole concept relies on drivers obeying signs to change lanes, slow down etc.

I got done for 35 in a 30. I was approaching Jedburgh from the south and when I came round a corner and saw the speed limit sign I lifted instead of braking. My residual speed was enough to see me over the limit, so a fair cop. 

The only slightly galling part of it was that they installed speed limit "countdown" markers before the corner just a few months later (There's now a 40mph zone leading up to the 30mph). 

Jedburgh is now mainly 20mph through the town on the main road.  So it goes NSL/40/30/20 in a very short space from the end of the amusingly nasty twisties on the South side.

Last speed awareness course I did was actually quite good. Instructor was a motorcycle instructor, really knowledgeable and funny. 

Attendees were a Question Time-esque snapshot of society. Was slightly disturbed to find one was suggested as a Facebook friend to me a couple of weeks later.

I've done a few of those courses but still managed to just start my second 6 month ban in 4 years. Quite an achievement considering i only drive 15 miles 2 days/week. Mostly 34 in a 30 stuff, never hit anyone yet & the only times i've been in accident is when other people have hit me. Still, it's quite liberating and really just emphasises how little i need a vehicle.

At one that I attended there a bloke loudly huffing and puffing for the first ten mins or so about unfair and pointless it all was' who was asked to leave, an on the way out was told that he'd not attended, and he'd get a letter explaining his options were court or fine. 

So you can 'fail it' in that sense. 

Posted by: Cletus

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but the whole concept relies on drivers obeying signs to change lanes, slow down etc.

Somehow that sounds familiar

I've done a few of those courses but still managed to just start my second 6 month ban in 4 years.

WTF?

Do you just drive the whole 15miles above the speed limit every time you're not banned just to keep your points topped up?

Posted by: ScotRoutes

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I got done for 35 in a 30. I was approaching Jedburgh from the south and when I came round a corner and saw the speed limit sign I lifted instead of braking. My residual speed was enough to see me over the limit, so a fair cop. 

The only slightly galling part of it was that they installed speed limit "countdown" markers before the corner just a few months later (There's now a 40mph zone leading up to the 30mph). 

I was driving back up the A68 last year and was actually pretty interested to see - I think - every speed camera had an orange bag on it.

You can tell it's a bit of a petrolhead's road by the way some people were flying down it (not saying that's you at all by the way - NSL to 30s on twisty roads sneak up on me as well). Especially the several-mile stretch of old Roman road in Northumberland that looks like this: /\/\/\/\/\ with blind summits. I don't know the accident stats on it but it could probably do with some of those cameras being fixed.

Loads of cameras with the orange bag and a sign saying 'not in use' all over the borders.

Why? Even if it's not working then having it look like it is will keep speeds down and improve safety surely?  As long as people are kept unaware which function and which don't then they all work in that sense. Although not as a money making device 

Really annoys me that I live in a regularly flouted 20 zone and never see a camera van here but often see it a couple of miles away on a straight, flat piece of A road. How do they decide where to put it? I'd argue that 30 here is worse than 80 there

And before you ask, yes I do stick to the 20 and 30 limits. Sometimes push the lower van limits on A roads though.

Posted by: Cougar

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The course itself was tedious and patronising, the one interesting bit was a deep-dive into just how many people are affected following a major accident.

Agreed. Done 2. Both were on the toe cringing side of patronising. It's like an episode of the office. The in person one, one old fella turned up in his tractor and promptly fell asleep. The instructor kept waking him up saying he'd fail if he couldn't stay awake. Quite a low bar which -  from memory - he just made.

On line, one bloke was doing it from his bed! I was judge-y

Both times in between the bloke who refuses to accept physics when braking distances are explained, the anti cyclist nutjobs, the government is targeting me specifically tin foil hatters, there is some useful advice in there. Could have been an email tho.

Posted by: Alex Leigh

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Agreed. Done 2....

.... Could have been an email tho.

Certainly the first one didn't seem to be any more effective than an email.

Posted by: desperatebicycle

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Posted by: Cletus

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but the whole concept relies on drivers obeying signs to change lanes, slow down etc.

 

Somehow that sounds familiar

 

I can't see it catching on

They were 10 years apart