Few politicians will acknowledge they made mistakes - he has done.
Problem is his failure to learn from them isn't it? Keeps on repeating the same political mistakes over and over again:
cozying up to dodgy & corrupt businessmen, gets fingers burned, starts cozying up to different dodgy businessmen,
Wasted public money to try and cover up embarrassing FOI's, makes an arse of himself, wastes more public money covering up embarrassing (lack of) legal advice.
Spends years campaigning for referendum that he loses, starts campaigning for another referendum
The cynic would say there's a pattern here... and that's before we get to his government presiding over widespread public sector abuse and corruption, of which you've been a victim yourself IIRC?
On the contrary there is a constant reminder for people to look at what the SNP does not what it says - reality not rhetoric, but that doesn't go down too well.
They will be accepting referendum results next!!!
can we discuss Dan hannan's praise of Iceland next?
Lots of politicians get things wrong- hard;y news- and few predicted the financial collapse- hardly news
This is hardly a trait specific to AS as even your hero is less than perfect in his praise of economic titans
How many bankers were prosecuted in the UK THM?
Dan hannan's praise of Iceland next?
You think that being a minor MEP carries the same sort of political responsibility and judgement as being the First Minister, responsible for the economy, jobs and safety of millions of people 😯
How many politicians do you know of that have publicly said - " I did this- it was a mistake"
BOris - released press statement saying he would adhere to decision then appealedWasted public money to try and cover up embarrassing FOI's,
I am genuinely not sure AS is exceptional shit by politicians standards but i assume we can all agree he is tainted
I hate those politicians who have a conviction and then continue to work for that goal using the democratic process. those idiots have really not got politics now have they 🙄Spends years campaigning for referendum that he loses, starts campaigning for another referendum
UKIP would certainly be gone by now had the lost now wouldn't they and dan would have said nothing about the EU ever again
Its the same old truths/insults that we can level at any party /politicians as essentially we are proving politicians are dishonest and a bit crap. Is this really in any doubt irrespective of whose ribbon - or tie for THM- they wear?
[quote=tjagain ]How many politicians do you know of that have publicly said - " I did this- it was a mistake"
Did any of those who had dinner with THM and/or applied for jobs with him [ unsuccessfully] say this ?
BOris - released press statement saying he would adhere to decision then appealed
You're saying that Salmond is as much of a political arse as Boris 😆
i am saying he is not the only political arse with shortcomings.
Looks like we agree as you failed to defend either Boris or Dan the man Hannanahahahaha
Are we doing grown up yet?
How many politicians do you know of that have publicly said - " I did this- it was a mistake"
Nick Clegg. Would have been a great PM(*)
(*) At least by today's standards, which I agree is a fairly low bar.
Did he? The only one I can think of is a sort of half hearted part apology over the tuition fees promise. which was not " I made a mistake in voting for tuition fees having said I wouldn't" but instead " I should not have made the promise"
correct me if wrong.
its strange as for politicians, like on here, its seen as wrong to admit you were wrong/have changed your opinion as if it better to just spin defect etc when the facts counter your narrative
Not saying i admire AS in this scenario or Clegg but it is better to admit you were wrong than defend the indefensible as some do
The argument previously was that if iS left then the rUK was the successor state - did i miss you getting outraged when this was pointed out in previous debates or did you understand it perfectly well then?
I don't think it was. The rUK will be the continuing state if Scotland leaves, brexit doesn't change that.
"The rUK will be the continuing state if Scotland leaves, brexit doesn't change that "
Surely shome mistake
Even today we can surely all agree that Brexit doesn't mean that.....or at least not for very long
tjagain - MemberDid he? The only one I can think of is a sort of half hearted part apology over the tuition fees promise. which was not " I made a mistake in voting for tuition fees having said I wouldn't" but instead " I should not have made the promise"
correct me if wrong.
Hmmm, when I saw him speak he was saying he shouldn't have made that promise. Which seems fair enough to me. I never understood why people thought that in a coalition he would magically have free reign to do whatever he chose.
The irony is that all those holier-than-thou floating voters who switched sides at the 2015 election were fed a tasty sandwich of a Conservative majority swiftly followed by Brexit as a reward. Oops.
😯
What are you trying to say there?
The argument previously was that if iS left then the rUK was the successor state -
You have disagreed and they just said what I saiddon't think it was. The rUK will be the continuing state if Scotland leaves,
brexit doesn't change that.
It's blindingly obvious that the UK leaving the EU changes whether there is a possibility of iS having successor state claim to the EU as the UKl has left and their is a membership "up for grabs"
Whether it happens is another debate bit its impossoble to not see the merits in the argument and its ludicrous to claim the UK leaving the EU has no impact on whether iS can have the Uk place as a succesor state
It's blindingly obvious that the UK leaving the EU changes whether there is a possibility of iS having successor state claim to the EU as the UKl has left and their is a membership "up for grabs"
So do we need a bus with £350m a week on the side again?
While what you suggest is legally possible (pretty much anything is as long as all member states agree), it wouldn't happen because not all member states would agree. Apart from some who would prefer not to see an independent Scotland within the EU (either because they compete with us or because they have their own separatist movement to worry about) but others would object because, one assumes, an independent Scotland would not take over the UK's membership in a financially neutral manner. You want the UK's seat? You can pay the UK's net contribution...
Indeed Grumpy I mentioned that, TJ himself suggested there where £60bn of future EU liabilities (there aren't but that's what some Remainers are suggesting) which the sucessor state would inherit.
You have disagreed and they just said what I said
No, you claimed that people were previously stating that rUK would be a successor state, I'm not aware people were claiming that. It is my understanding that rUK would be a continuing state. Continuing, and successor states are two different things in terms of international law.
It's blindingly obvious that the UK leaving the EU changes whether there is a possibility of iS having successor state claim to the EU
I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. You seem to be referring to a Scotland taking the UKs place in the EU. I am questioning the claim that Scotland would become a successor state - as defined in international law.
We should settle it the old-fashioned way. Since Scotland has Faslane, I think it would all be over fairly quickly.
We have the codes though and everyone with serious hardware reports to Her Majesty in any case 🙂
jambalaya - Member
We have the codes though and everyone with serious hardware reports to Her Majesty in any case
Aye, but it's primitive technology, and this is Scotland, so someone should be able to hack up a guidance system using a Raspberry Pi and a mobile phone.
Which window would you like it to come through?
Incoming... 🙂
There are no codes (UK weapons are not fitted with a PAL). Launch orders come from Northwood, but the submarine crew are completely autonomous.
Leave it to the Glaswegians and they would either deep fry or drink the warheads...
Given that people focus on the wrong things when criticising the SNP (not that anything is their fault), what are the headlines today?
1. The failures of education policy
2. Donors and their tax affairs
Good to see that things are so different with the SNP. Rhetoric v reality.
I guess Swinney has apologised for the cock-up with one. So that's ok, all is forgiven.
teamhurtmore - Member
Given that people focus on the wrong things when criticising the SNP (not that anything is their fault), what are the headlines today?...
The same headlines we get every day.
It's either SNP Baaad!
Or SNP Very Baad!
Result? Very few people believe them anymore.
Aye it really is funny epicyclo. Especially as the SNP baaaaaaad stores are usually made up or simply wrong. 2 recent ones spring to mind. Scottish labour claiming half a billion of cuts in the scottish NHS when budgets are rising and also the labour attack on the SNP MPs for claiming excessive expenses and not attending the chamber when actually the SNP mps take much less in expenses and attend more than labour!
The thing is there are huge mistakes out there that they could be attacked on - but these tend to be populist policies so no one attacks them. I know of two NHS issues that have cost lives due to poor policy from the SNP but due to the ignorance of the snps enemies or thir craven inability to go against illinformed public opinion they miss the open goal
fuds, diddies and bampots the lot of them
The recent PISA results are a stick that the SNP are getting beaten with,but TBH;the SNP should have looked at the propoals to introduce CFE that they were going to inherit and said "Nah;yir all richt min." It is one of those Embra tram ones that they inherited where Labour at sitting on the side going SNP BAD without the slightes sense of irony or self awareness. I may have said what a clustershag CFE is to Mike Russell,ex Ed-Sec at my parents house one New Year... 😳
Result? Very few people believe them anymore.
More fool them. Whitewashing history doesn't make things go away, unless you subscribe to the irgnorance is bliss school. We know who the main disciple there is.
Leave it to the Glaswegians and they would either deep fry or drink the warheads...
Glasgow has quite a few excellent high technology companies, world-class precision engineering, and space technology experts.
I'm sure we could bodge a simple nuclear missile.
Anyway Scottish budget week this week. So what's on the cards?
After the failure of raising stamp duty - well done getting less revenue! - whats on the cards for MRT for top earners, and tax thresholds this week?
Her growth advisor seems to be doing a Bojo and going off-script re the warnings against alleged/promised tax plans. Who will win......?
teamhurtmore - Member
More fool them. Whitewashing history doesn't make things go away...
Well as most Scots know, or at least Highlanders raised traditionally, history as taught isn't much more accurate than those headlines.
It has been thoroughly rinsed, glossed over or whitewashed, and that's why the independence movement isn't going to go away.
As tjagain says, there's plenty the Red and Blue Tory media could use against the SNP if only they did a bit of digging instead of relying on made up or misrepresented stories.
Given that most of the SNP baaaaaad stories in the press are provably false who is the fool? The sceptic who looks at multiple sources and tries to get to the facts or the person who takes scare stories in the unionist press at face value unquestioningly because they fit their narrative?
Its always interesting to read the same story in the scotsman ( staunchly unionist) the Herald ( sceptical slightly pro independence) and the National ( staunchly pro independence) ( and thats without considering the Wail and the express who simply make up lies)
I have seen the same item reported as a blow for the SNP and a boost for the SNP
Those who rely on WoS
But at least education wasnt glossed over this week epic, and Swinney put his hand up. What about the budget question - will they bottle it on their tax policy or not?
So we have one revenue reducing tax policy - air duty - offset by keeping the threshold for the top rate below the UK. Winners, eh?
When do you think that pre independence will get past 5 regions? Do you think any will make 60% in favour? Given all the non-reported momentum and support, the answer must be now and yes. So why is Nicola so pessimistic?
tjagain - Member
Its always interesting to read the same story in the scotsman ( staunchly unionist) the Herald ( sceptical slightly pro independence) and the National ( staunchly pro independence) ( and thats without considering the Wail and the express who simply make up lies)
I usually get a chance to glance over the newspaper headlines each lunchtime. The Telegraph is as bad as the Mail, all they do is vent their bile about either the SNP or the EU/foreigners. It is so comically overblown I hope that most readers are wise to it, but I'm not sure they are.
A coworker occasionally buys the National. It seems like a depressingly wasted opportunity for the independence movement. The editorial team seemed to have looked at the often vitriolic, tribal, petty and exaggerated anti independence rhetoric in many newspapers and decided that the best way to counter it was to do the same but be pro independence. Plus the covers are frequently cringeworthy. I personally don't support independence but the cause deserves a better standard bearer than the National.
I agree chris. I suspect the national will not last long and it appears to be simply SNP good in response to SNP bad we get from most other papers Picking the truth as a midway point between it and the scotsman is reasonable as a start point tho
Anyway has anyone yet resolved the Wales, NI problem? Or is the UK now simply England and Scotland?
Who are they? 😉
Wales goes with England. NI have to chose between Scotland and Eire.
IMO the best bet for NI is to give it special status as an independent protectorate guaranteed by both Eire and England.
What about their wishes, or do they not matter - like a referendum result?
tjagain - Member
Wales goes with England. NI have to chose between Scotland and Eire.IMO the best bet for NI is to give it special status as an independent protectorate guaranteed by both Eire and England.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/12/england-wales-eu-brexit-article-50?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter ]A solution from the Guardian...[/url]
That would solve a lot of issues.
While throwing up a whole heap more. As most of the comments on that article note it is a ****ing retarded idea that only the Guardian could genuinely write about with any seriousness.
Has this thread fallen off the front page? Can't have that - CFH something to stimulate him 😉
So still no comments on tomorrow's budget - is it unimportant? Come on my left-of-centre Scottish friends, some predictions for the "historic" budget and tax rates in particular. Some assumptions:
1. The SNP has been voted in on a left of centre mandate (no really)
2. They are anti-austerity
3. There is a deficit issue
4. Top tax rates for the filthy rich are below the EU average (anyone mention a "low-tax, low wage economy"?)
5. etc
So, Derek Mackay will address this how?
Will he increase the MRT on the filthy rich to 50p?
How about the rise in the basic rate proposed by the other left-of-centre party? 1p, nothing, more?
And where will he set the filthy rich threshold? In-line with manifesto or more radical?
He has to make sure that he can deliver on Nicola's promise to local councils for a "fair deal this time around"
Looking forward to something radical - will be a good test case for the rUK. He wont bottle it will he? Reality not rhetoric this time, surely? He has taken a few more months breathing space to get this right after all!
teamhurtmore - Member
So still no comments on tomorrow's budget - is it unimportant?...
Nothing is as important as independence.
