We need to clone Paul Scholes, basically
Vardy has been totally ineffective ..the one player who could bring him to life and play to his strengths is Jonjo ..how he didn't get into the squad ahead of Fabien Delph beggars belief ..
Most of you who have a negative opinion of Shelvey are talking out of your backsides ..he did clean up his act considerably last season and sought professional help to do so ..
The calls to include Wilshere ....nah.. a sicknote and a completely spent force .
A point from a different sport – cricket. Temperament. Duncan Fletcher for Ashes 2005 built a squad with Michael Vaughan as captain, of players who they felt could withstand the heat of an Ashes battle. Even if they weren’t the best players, you need guys who will tough it out. Hence why players like Collingwood made the cut whereas Ramprakash didn’t.
Tangential point of order. Colly only came in to the last match of that series as replacement for Jones I believe. In it he scored 17 runs in two innings and took one catch.
Wilshire is this generation's Joe Cole, has a touch of class about the way they play. But for some reason they don't seem to be able to capitalise on it and become a decent player.
Tangential point of order.
He'd already made their list of players as being the kind of tough buggers they wanted around them, which is the point. Picked on temperament rather than pure ability. He was in the squad from the start but didn't make the XI and went back to Durham for the cricket.
As for the game itself. Yes, he only got 17, but he did bat well over an hour for his second innings 10 when we were using up time, under withering mental and physical pressure. And went on to score lots of runs for England. You can't judge him on a single game average of 8.5 and if you do you miss the whole point.
Which, back to football and to answer another point, might be why Delph is in the squad and not Wilshere. Delph might be the kind of player identified as good around the squad, will keep the mood good, run through walls if asked, do the sorts of jobs and roles the 'better' players don't want to without grumbling.....maybe that's where his real value is over someone like Wilshere who strikes me as being a bit .....don't know exactly what to say but 'flakey'?
One things for sure, you “ ball sports” fans have incredible memories for trivia and facts.
Who played number 6 in the Italia90 ?
Go!
The calls to include Wilshere ….nah.. a sicknote and a completely spent force .
dont talk out of your backside Hogy....he’s hardly a spent force. His performances to force himself back into the first team last season, were at times, simply superb. He can hit passes that no other Player in the squad can even see.
Unfortunately, in the final dozen games of the season, he just seemed to lose his urgency, perhaps in a bid to avoid an injury before the WC. That, and his injury history, was his downfall, when Southgate made his selections.
Who played number 6 in the Italia90 ?
If if I had to guess, I’d say Terry Butcher?
Number 6?
Ooh look, some more er, what was it "Gibbering"? -
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/04/cloud-hanging-world-cup-fifa-england-colombia
Perhaps we should take the discussion to the TMS thread? I've always liked Colly, but actually I'd say the 2005 team wasn't necessarily a great example of resilient doughty individuals per se: you had attention whores like Vaughn, KP and Freddy, you had Tresco who ultimately succumbed to his inner demons two years later, Belly in full Sherminator guise, a spinner who couldn't turn the ball, a quick bowler who was just as prone to sending it to 2nd slip as he was the stumps, and a keeper who couldn't catch.
I'd actually say it's a wonder how we won at all! 😀
DezB. I don't think it's gibbering. Read that and agreed with much of the sentiment. Top level football lost me as a regular viewer many years ago.
I have zoned in with mild interest to catch the odd score, or 5 mins here or there. The histrionics and screaming at the referee is what mainly turned me off the game. I have found watching other sports where greater respect is shown for opponents and officials is more enjoyable. This isn't snobbery, as I used to love the game. What little I have seen of VAR seems to have been exciting and dragged football into the 21st century, but this should be used to clamp down on play acting which is blatant cheating.
Under 12's competing in the park are tougher than these saps, who should all be embarrassed and ashamed. I normally turn off after one of the many high definition replay which shows a player pole axed by being farted on, and the subsequent mellee around the referee which should have resulted in half a dozen bookings.
I reckon that the of the total fouls given, despite many being a good decision, between 80 and 90% will have involved some form of play acting by the aggrieved player. I don't think this figure is too high.
Maybe..... but collectively they went toe to toe with the toughest and came out on top.
Bangers is a great example. On the field he was tough as boots, I think it was as his career waned and he started facing the demons of a life outside the game that the pressure told. Such a shame, but afflicts many.
Harmison - the yips came later. I remember him more for hitting Langer in the first over of the series, then worked Ponting over.....
Giles - another good'un. Not the best spinner by a long chalk but just the sort to tough out that last session at Trent Bridge with Hoggard.
And Jones - valuable runs, and he held the one that mattered.
DezB. I don’t think it’s gibbering
It's just what some pillock, who obviously enjoys that aspect of football, called it when I mentioned it a few pages back
You and yon journalist guy are both full of shit tbh. Possibly best world cup ever and all ye can do is find something to greet about? Give us all peace and start another thread.
Good piece of journalism here, sums up Tuesday night so well...
<puts on tin hat>
So any connection between the new novichok case and a possible semi between Russia and England? 🙂
Oh, there he is again ^^ 😆
Lets keep it OT guys....there appear to be a couple of posts on Cricket FFS!
Off topic? Sure!
Cricket is far more interesting than wendyball 😂😂
The problem seosamh is you are conditioned not to see the obvious. Too many hard core supporters don't look outside football to see how things can or should be done better. How has the richest sport in the world taken until 2018 to introduce something which help referees and actually makes things more interesting? Technology like VAR has been used to great effect in other not so financially rich sports for years.
As exciting as most seem to say the world cup is, I can see that from the scores and some newspaper analysis. I agree with the journalist, and it does not just refer to this world cup.
So I am not talking shit. Play acting and mouthing to referees has got to such a level that is has become embarrassing. As I say, watch replays of fouls and I guarantee 80 to 90 percent of them involve faking some temporary injury. I saw Suarez, pushed in the back, probably a foul, but he spent 2 to 3 minutes on the deck clutching his head. Fans and pundits may kiss these people's arses. I would rather see them booked.
Under 12’s competing in the park are tougher than these saps, who should all be embarrassed and ashamed. I normally turn off after one of the many high definition replay which shows a player pole axed by being farted on, and the subsequent mellee around the referee which should have resulted in half a dozen bookings.
Ironically I think this all started with football not bringing in technology to help the ref. Player gets fouled in the box, stays on their feet, ref doesn't see it as a foul, no pen. The next time player gets fouled in the box, goes to ground, gets the penalty. From there it's spread like a cancer, if you don't make a big think of it you don't the decision.
I don't for one moment think Jordan Henderson got hit hard enough to go down & spend as much time as he did on the ground, but... if he hadn't the Colombian would've got away with that scott free... so it is cheating, dirty tricks etc.. but good luck with stamping it out, it's unfortunately far too ingrained within the game now, unless, there are some radical changes. Punishments for both, the aggressors & the 'victims'.
Rocky 63...😁
My comments earlier regarding Wilshire were a little bit tongue in cheek ..and designed to stir the pot a bit ..however I still think his best days are behind him based purely on the amount of time he is injured ...
I would still have him at the toon ..but not at the inflated price being bandied about..
Oh..and please please stop talking cricket on here ..its a game I've got absolutely no time for ..unless of course you would like me to corrupt the cricket thread by talking football on it ..?
but not at the inflated price being bandied about
Yep free transfer does somewhat overvalue him. His only offers seem to be West Ham and Turkey.
As you are well aware though ..free transfer does not mean ' no fee ' ..its just that we don't get to see what is actually being paid and to whom ..
Yep free transfer does somewhat overvalue him.
It's the wages that will be the problem, that and the medical bills.
Possibly best world cup ever and all ye can do is find something to greet about? Give us all peace and start another thread.
There have been some great games but some awful defending, blatant fouls and teams not coming to play football
Also can we please stop calling it wendyball...
The problem seosamh is you are conditioned not to see the obvious.
No, I can see it, just don't think it's the problem you are making it out to be.
As exciting as most seem to say the world cup is, I can see that from the scores and some newspaper analysis. I agree with the journalist, and it does not just refer to this world cup.
So I am not talking shit.
Tells me you haven't been watching so aren't really qualified to comment and are just regurgitating 2nd hand opinions.
Also can we please stop calling it wendyball…
On the contrary, I find it a useful shortcut for identifying unoriginal sexists.
There have been some great games but some awful defending, blatant fouls and teams not coming to play football
If there was no mistakes in fitba every game would finish 0-0! 😆
Also can we please stop calling it wendyball…
once Neymar is out perhaps
Oh..and please please stop talking cricket on here ..its a game I’ve got absolutely no time for ..unless of course you would like me to corrupt the cricket thread by talking football on it ..?
Can i interest you in rugby? 😂
Also can we please stop calling it wendyball…
once Neymar is out perhaps
Quite. On the contrary, you see much less play acting and pissing about in the female game
If you’re sensitive enough to ark up about someone calling it wendyball in jest on one occasion then you clearly have far greater issues of insecurity than I do with being accused of sexism. You’re also assuming I’m male.
If there was no mistakes in fitba every game would finish 0-0!
Mistakes?? I'm talking about the rugby tackles, shameless diving and all that. Each player should be presented with their highlight reel and be made to talk us all through it on their national broadcaster.
Quite. On the contrary, you see much less play acting and pissing about in the female game
If you’re sensitive enough to ark up about someone calling it wendyball in jest on one occasion then you clearly have far greater issues of insecurity than I do with being accused of sexism. You’re also assuming I’m male.
I don't think anyone is assuming anything about your gender. Just the name grates, because it's sexist, & really should be consigned to the history books along with David Baddiel's impersonation of Jason Lee.
so aren’t really qualified to comment
That is ****ing priceless! 😆
Reminder: the discussion is about [i]football[/i]!
Oh god, the trolls are out in force today, I take it they have been kicked off the beebs comments, and don't have enough wit for youtube coomments.
Gosh you are a sensitive lot today.
so aren’t really qualified to comment
That is **** priceless!
Reminder: the discussion is about <em class="bbcode-em">football!
How can you talk about it if you haven't watched it?
Seosamh. I have probably seen the equivalent of 90 mins during the world cup. I admit not a lot. I did see the last 10 mins of Spain v Portugal and segments of France V Argentina. Both were quite exciting, but as some one that can drop in and out of it, the bulk of what I have witnessed has been play acting and diving, or haranguing of a referee. The good play these days I am sorry to say does not detract enough from the cheating for me to get really into top level football, which is a shame. I notice there is little dispute regarding the points I have raised regarding the prevalence of play acting. The difference of opinions comes from whether you think it detracts from your viewing enjoyment. It does in my opinion.
I am perfectly entitles to express this here seosamh, as this is a forum, not a world cup love in.
I am perfectly entitled to have an opinion and it is perfectly reasonable to form an opinion partially taking on board what I have heard from others.
Dez, posted a link to an article he described as gibberish. I will admit to not seeing a single minute of the last England game, so cannot directly comment on the points raised regarding that specific game, but I agree with the gist of the article. The article is probably unfashionable rather than gibberish.
If there was no mistakes in fitba every game would finish 0-0!
Mistakes?? I’m talking about the rugby tackles, shameless diving and all that. Each player should be presented with their highlight reel and be made to talk us all through it on their national broadcaster.
It happens, still don't think it's all that bad though.
Overall I'd say the refs have been fine, couple been on the verge of losing control mind you. England game I'll give ye ref should have been more assertive, and I think it was the iran portugal game where the ref nearly lost it completely. You are never going to stamp out incompetent refs completely, even the best can have a bad day.
As for diving, well they can only really do it in places that aren't that crucial anymore, at the important bits they'll mostly get caught out by VAR now, outside, meh, it happens. It certainly doesn't over shadow the tournament, that's just sensationalist bullshit.
So I don't really understand the something must be done shout, something has been done, VAR's been introduced and is pretty effective. Not 100%, but largely it is effective.
You crack on athgray, just don't expect anyone, apart from DezB to take you serious.
It happens, still don’t think it’s all that bad though.
You are welcome to that opinion, others do not agree with you.
As for diving, well they can only really do it in places that aren’t that crucial anymore, at the important bits they’ll get caught out by VAR now,
All VAR Covers is penalties, straight red card and goals. Free kicks etc are not on the list and don't get reviewed. Diving doesn't get reviewed and there is no retrospective action possible.
The cheating in cricket and rugby reaches levels not seen in footie....,for the record! Cricketers fix matches, take items onto the pitch to damage the ball and pretend they haven’t hit it when they have....just a small number of examples.
Rugby by on the other hand, plumbed depths never seen in other sports, when a guy exploded a blood capsule in hit mouth pretending he’d been badly injured.
So whilst I’m not sticking up for the antics in football, people in glass houses etc!
aye the important bits, take it any further and you'll kill the flow of games.
